WC_lun
Senior Master
If intending pain without much injury then for sure hitting the outside of the arm will get thier attention. Especially a stinging hit with a stick. 
Stick attack - take it on the bone or the meat?
- Thread starter jasonbrinn
- Start date
MikeBielat
Orange Belt
I think like many said its going to suck no matter what. I do think that we should all be conditioning ourselves to minimize the damage. If we practiced and conditioned out arms (like I do in
Ishin-Ryu karate) then we should theoretically have an advantage.
I would therefore opt for the meaty forearm as opposed to bone. If I had the opportunity then I would find myself moving backwards away from the swing or forward and advancing inside the swing and blocking at the shoulder and wrist thus isolating the swing and then going to town on them.
Ishin-Ryu karate) then we should theoretically have an advantage.
I would therefore opt for the meaty forearm as opposed to bone. If I had the opportunity then I would find myself moving backwards away from the swing or forward and advancing inside the swing and blocking at the shoulder and wrist thus isolating the swing and then going to town on them.
WC_lun
Senior Master
How conditioned is the inside of your arm? I'venot seen any regimens that would effectively train the inside of the arm against blows without first doing significant damage to the arm. There are liniment that can toughen the skin, but that will do nothing against a blunt weapon damaging the tendons, vessals, and nerves in the interior part of a person's arm.
Being hit on the inside of the arm as opposed to the outside of the arm, given no choice, is not a matterof opinion. It is a matter of anatomy and how we are designed as human beings. Might there be an occasion that you might have to take a blow to the inside of the arm? Sure there is, but there is no occasion where given the choice that is the best option or that is what a person should train for.
It worries me that martial artist in charge of training others do not understand this as well as they should. It speaks to the proliferation of fantasy and theory over actual knowledge and experience. I mean to call no one out or make anyone upset, but things like this matter when it comes to teaching others anything resembling self defense. There are so many bad repurcussions that can happen if struck solidly where the human body is weak and while we are martial artist, none of us are such supermen that we do not share some common physical weaknesses inherent in being a human being.
Being hit on the inside of the arm as opposed to the outside of the arm, given no choice, is not a matterof opinion. It is a matter of anatomy and how we are designed as human beings. Might there be an occasion that you might have to take a blow to the inside of the arm? Sure there is, but there is no occasion where given the choice that is the best option or that is what a person should train for.
It worries me that martial artist in charge of training others do not understand this as well as they should. It speaks to the proliferation of fantasy and theory over actual knowledge and experience. I mean to call no one out or make anyone upset, but things like this matter when it comes to teaching others anything resembling self defense. There are so many bad repurcussions that can happen if struck solidly where the human body is weak and while we are martial artist, none of us are such supermen that we do not share some common physical weaknesses inherent in being a human being.
OP
jasonbrinn
Purple Belt
- Thread Starter
- #44
It worries me that people with 25+ years of training don't seem to understand that sometimes our weaknesses can be our true strengths. However, it makes me sick when I see that as a community there are still those among us it seems that are closed off from discussions outside of what they feel they know to be true. We can only progress as much as we are willing to explore and should we not progress then we will die.
The FACT of the matter is that getting struck on the bone directly by a blunt object is much worse anatomically than taking the same strike on most fleshy areas (obviously there are some exceptions). This is why people trained in the ACTUAL combative techniques are taught to strike such areas whenever possible when using a blunt object.
The most unsettling thing to me is when people who appear to have authority, seniority or (valid)experiential knowledge belittle/poke fun/make light/etc the questions of others. These kinds of heavy handed actions tend to foster a timid posting environment and not foster an open area for discussion and freedom of expression.
Jason Brinn
chinto
Senior Master
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- Apr 18, 2007
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I think like many said its going to suck no matter what. I do think that we should all be conditioning ourselves to minimize the damage. If we practiced and conditioned out arms (like I do in
Ishin-Ryu karate) then we should theoretically have an advantage.
I would therefore opt for the meaty forearm as opposed to bone. If I had the opportunity then I would find myself moving backwards away from the swing or forward and advancing inside the swing and blocking at the shoulder and wrist thus isolating the swing and then going to town on them.
well said, and I agree.. also if a stick is involved in my state its a deadly force encounter.. so when you go.. go for broke! get inside that swing and then cry havoc! no quarter.. your life is at stake
If one has the milliseconds to determine "I'm going to get hit here instead of there", doesn't one also have the milliseconds to do more than just get hit? Duck, block, dodge, parry...might not be perfect, and it might not be pretty, but it beats doing nothing, eh?
I did Isshin-ryu for several years, and other Okinawan systems that practice this. It won't help against a stick. In my opinion it serves mostly to desensitize you to pain--but a heavy sticky is doing damage that 'conditioning' won't stop.
A simple stick is a lot more dangerous than people think. You believe you can handle a choke/strangle? I know how to do it with a stick in a way that will cause more pain than you would think it possibly could. (Please, don't try this at home.) A stick attack is a very dangerous situation.
MikeBielat
Orange Belt
That is why I said it will suck no matter what. All I was saying was that we may not feel it as bad as someone else or this hit may not cause "as much" damage as it would affect an average joe.
If I have no room to step back or to the sides and someone has enough room for a full swing coming at me then you better believe ill be charging in and jamming that swing at the shoulder and wrist followed up by a couple soften up techniques to remove that weapon and then Ill be deciding if I want to break a bone of theirs, lock them up with a wrist lock or just plain ol' KO them on the spot.
If he had no room either then where are we in an elevator? Chances are that swing won't be a full swing so it won't hurt as bad.
It's like when I take and teach knife defense. I preface everything saying in a real knife fight chances are you're going to come out with a scratch or two. The only difference is that YOU will be coming out of it alive.
WC_lun
Senior Master
Talk to a doctor. Even a general doctor will have the knowledge you seek. Ihave no problem with new ways of thinking about fighting, if it is valid. If it is valid it helps everyone. If it is not valid, students do not know any better and may suffer serious damage getting struck on the inside of the arm Ignoring the science behind this thing known by most experienced martial artist so that you can apear the old wizened instructor asking questions that should already be known by ANY instructor using weapons and most who do not. Reality matters.
OP
jasonbrinn
Purple Belt
- Thread Starter
- #51
I never once stated my belief in the OP, it's just a question to see what others think and if they have different ideas about it. I certainly hope that people aren't "learning" here on an internet forum. This hopefully is a place of ideas that can be discussed later in real life with qualified professionals and if something merits it tested out. I definitely know what works from training, real-life experience and teaching. Because I know something doesn't mean that I am unwilling to review and reconsider it - that's how I make improvements past the norm.
But as for this:
You, of course, can cite this science you refer to backing up what everyone "knows" then right? I mean cause reality matters.
I am not interested in pissing contests with someone on an internet forum but I am interested in people's ideas and any science/facts they have backing them up.
Jason Brinn
harlan
2nd Black Belt
I'd love a list of topical, scientific references in this area.
Until then, 'knowing' generally equates to matt/dojo time...and is very hard to measure and backup.
Until then, 'knowing' generally equates to matt/dojo time...and is very hard to measure and backup.
Balrog
Master of Arts
I would do the best that I could to close the gap on him. The closer I can get to him, the less force he'll be able to hit me with. If I can't pass the force, I'll try to take the hit on the most padded part that I can, then cause him so much pain that he won't think about hitting me a second time.
