Statistics regarding Child Abduction and Violence

[Lisa]

Moderator Note:

These posts were moved from this thread to allow for the discussion of Statistics to carry on without disruption of the other thread.

 

[Andrew Green]

This is a bad situation, because ultimately you can never tell what someone has going on in their mind, even someone close and trusted. This is why you have to have the discussion about inappropriate contact, no matter how uncomfortable it may be. I think that this category of predator is less likely to use force, but would try to coax the child to go along and use emotional tactics - because if the child is a participant, even a reluctant one, they are less likely to tell someone than if someone just uses force on them. This is another area of SD that needs to be taught to kids but again, you explain it as a fact of life rather than make a campfire story out of it. You can teach them these things without scaring the bejeezus out of 'em.

Yes, this I agree with. Children should know what is appropriate, what is not. They should know how to call crisis lines. They should understand the threats, and where to get help. Stranger abduction is a huge fear, but very small in actual occurances. If a child gets abducted, most likely it was by someone they trusted.

Now the question is who teaches this? I think my stomache would do a back flip if I walked into a martial arts class and the instructor was giving a lecture on innapropriate touching, that's not there job. That is parents and guidance counsllors, not martial arts instructors.

Physically a young child is not going to be able to fight off a adult, thats like a minature poddle fighting a Golden retriever. The kid just doesn't have a chance, all they are likely to do is make the adult mad. Scream, yell, draw attention all good. But again, chances are if they are being abducted it will be by someone they trust.

So what place do martial arts instructors have in all of this? Are we at all quallified to teach this material? I would say absolutely not. We can teach martial arts skills, but not "what to do if Uncle Joe touches you in a bad way?". That is for parents, and guidance counselors (who are trained to deal with these issues)

 

[CoryKS]

Yes, this I agree with. Children should know what is appropriate, what is not. They should know how to call crisis lines. They should understand the threats, and where to get help. Stranger abduction is a huge fear, but very small in actual occurances. If a child gets abducted, most likely it was by someone they trusted.

Now the question is who teaches this? I think my stomache would do a back flip if I walked into a martial arts class and the instructor was giving a lecture on innapropriate touching, that's not there job. That is parents and guidance counsllors, not martial arts instructors.

Physically a young child is not going to be able to fight off a adult, thats like a minature poddle fighting a Golden retriever. The kid just doesn't have a chance, all they are likely to do is make the adult mad. Scream, yell, draw attention all good. But again, chances are if they are being abducted it will be by someone they trust.

So what place do martial arts instructors have in all of this? Are we at all quallified to teach this material? I would say absolutely not. We can teach martial arts skills, but not "what to do if Uncle Joe touches you in a bad way?". That is for parents, and guidance counselors (who are trained to deal with these issues)

Nope, not MA instructors. That is a parental responsibility. I had to show a video once as a cub scout den leader, but that was at Tiger level which requires parents to attend meetings with their boys.

 

[Shaderon]

Nope, not MA instructors. That is be a parental responsibility. I had to show a video once as a cub scout den leader, but that was at Tiger level which requires parents to attend meetings with their boys.

I agree, this is not the place of a MA instructor, but there is things the MA instructor can do, teaching the child to escape a grab quickly by moving the grabbed arm in a certain way, teaching them to kick in the right places, stamp in the right places, even bite in the right places.

But also there is the point that the self defence isn't just for now, it's for life. If the child gets involved in a situation where they need it, 6 years down the line and it's so ingrained by learning it every week that it comes second nature.... the MA instructor has succeeded, they have taught effective self defence. OK the child might not be able to defend against a full sized adult now, but when they are twelve or fourteen years old and nearly as big as an adult with an ingrained self defence technique then they've got a darn good chance of hurting an attacker and getting away.

 

[Andrew Green]

OK the child might not be able to defend against a full sized adult now, but when they are twelve or fourteen years old and nearly as big as an adult with an ingrained self defence technique then they've got a darn good chance of hurting an attacker and getting away.

Then why not teach it when they are 12 or 14?

A lot of the tactics that seem to go around as things a child could use are, well, nasty. Do we really want to be teaching kids to eye gouge and kick the groin? Esspecially at that age, we make them wait for other knowledge, why not this?

At 5 or 6 they are learning to tie there shoes, ride a bike and other kid like activites. Methods to injure a person should not be a part of that list IMO. How to wrestle? yes, how to box? sure, to a limited extent. But how to cause serious injury? Are they mature enough to really understand that at that age?

Suppose they get in a school yard fight, which is far more likely then having to fight an adult, and they use these tactics, they could do some serious damage. Then they say "Sensei Bob told me too"

Or suppose they are just throwing a tantrum as young children sometimes do, and as young children sometimes do they lash out and start going for there daycare workers groin and eyes?

Both of those I would consider far more likely to occur then for a child to actually have to try and fend off a adult attacker.

Firearms, driving, alcohol, sex, cigarettes, etc. Other dangerous things we make kids wait until they are old enough to understand before teaching them to use safely, shouldn't that go for crippling techniques as well?

 

[Shaderon]

If the kind of children that are likely to abuse the MA and the self defense lessons are taking the classes, then the parents should be talking to the instructor about it and trying to work out what's happening, maybe they shouldn't be doing an MA at all? After all, if they are likley to throw a tantrum and use a self defence move against a parent or good carer then aren't they just as likely to use an MA move against them?

Kids should be learning discipline from MA in my opinion, as part of the curriculum, but if the child is pre-disposed to use that sort of thing against the parent or friends then the parent should be sorting THAT little problem out BEFORE they go!

And no not every child would do it.

Can I ask a question for my curiosity? Do you have kids? Just so I can see where you are coming from on the experience with children front.

 

[MJS]

Well, from looking at the replies, it seems to me that we have two sides...one side that acknowledges that this is a serious issue and another side that seems think its not something that happens all the time. IMHO, people need to look at the full picture, not just what they see in their 'own back yard.' It doesn't matter if someone gets abducted from a family member or a complete stranger, the fact remains, that this is a serious issue and should not be taken lightly.

 

[Shaderon]

Well, from looking at the replies, it seems to me that we have two sides...one side that acknowledges that this is a serious issue and another side that seems think its not something that happens all the time. IMHO, people need to look at the full picture, not just what they see in their 'own back yard.' It doesn't matter if someone gets abducted from a family member or a complete stranger, the fact remains, that this is a serious issue and should not be taken lightly.

Absolutely, I agree, in my mind the question shoud be not whether to deal with it, it should be how to deal with it.