Statistics regarding Child Abduction and Violence

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July 26, 2006: The body of five-year-old Destiny Norton is found in the basement of 20-year-old Craig Roger Gregerson in Salt Lake City, Utah. Destiny was kidnapped and killed on July 16 in Salt Lake City.
March 1, 2006: 14-year-old Michael Hamer murdered 11-year-old Joe Geeling in a frenzied attack after Joe spurned his sexual advances. He was found guilty on 16 October 2006 and would serve the minimum of 12 years before being eligible for parole.
June 25, 2005: Ten year old Dylan Groene was killed in Montana by Joseph E. Duncan III after being abducted from his home in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho on May 16, 2005. Also killed in the abduction were his mother, Brenda Kay Groene, 40; older brother Slade Groene, 13; and Mark Edward McKenzie, 37. His sister Shasta Groene survived the ordeal.
February 24, 2005: Nine-year-old Jessica Lunsford from Homosassa, Florida is kidnapped from her bedroom window and later raped and buried alive. John Evander Couey confesses to her murder.
June 1, 2004: 12-year-old Satomi Mitarai was killed by a classmate in Sasebo, Japan, by means of slitting of Mitarai's throat and arms by a box cutter. The murderess' real name has not been given by Japanese legal authorities due to juvenile criminal law, but she has been enshrined on the Internet in the form of a meme character called Nevada-tan.
February 1, 2004: 11-year-old Carlie Brucia was abducted at a car wash in Sarasota, Florida, on her way home from a sleepover. Her body was found behind a church on February 5. Joseph P. Smith has been sentenced to death for her murder.
June 9, 2003: Molly Bish's remains are found three years later.
August 24 and August 25, 2002: The bodies of Miranda Gaddis and Ashley Pond were found on the property of Ward Weaver III. He was later arrested for the crime.
August 4, 2002: Soham murders of 2002 in the UK, Ian Huntley murdered two 10-year-old girls, Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman (convicted December 17, 2003).
July 15, 2002: Samantha Runnion was kidnapped and murdered in Orange County, California. A man named Alejandro Avila was arrested for the crime.
Summer 2002: Danish girl disappeared in Isle of Wight in United Kingdom. A 52-year-old man admitted that he choked the girl to death.
March 18, 2002: Miranda Gaddis, Ashley Pond's 13-year old friend, disappeared.
February 28, 2002: The remains of eight-year-old Danielle Van Dam are found after she went missing since February 2. Danielle's body was too decomposed to prove whether or not she was sexually assaulted. Danielle's killer, David Westerfield, was charged and sentenced to death.
January 9, 2002: Ashley Pond disappeared on her way from her Oregon City, Oregon apartment complex to her school.
June 20, 2001: Andrea Pia Yates of Clear Lake City, Houston, Texas drowned her five children in a bathtub.
November 8, 2000: Four-year-old Lauren Key is allegedly pushed from a cliff and killed in California by her father, Cameron John Brown to escape a $1,000 payment of child support.
September 28, 2000: Brad (7) and Jill (5) Camm found shot to death in Georgetown, Indiana home along with slain mother Kim Camm. Father David Camm and Charles Boney convicted of their murders.
June 27, 2000: Sixteen-year-old lifeguard Molly Bish from Warren, Massachusetts mysteriously disappears from her post at Comins Pond.
May 19, 2000: Lena Sløgedal Paulsen (10) and Stine Sofie Sørstrønen were raped and killed in Baneheia in the city of Kristiansand, Norway. Viggo Kristiansen and Jan Helge Andersen were found guilty.
February 29, 2000: Kayla Rolland, a six-year-old girl from Flint, Michigan, becomes the youngest school shooting victim in U.S. history. She is killed from a shot to the neck by fellow student Dedrick Owens.
December 30, 1998: Javed Iqbal admitted that he killed 100 boys in Pakistan.
May 25, 1997: Sherrice Iverson, a 7-year-old girl, is found dead in a restroom of the Primm Valley Resort in Nevada. Jeremy Strohmeyer is arrested and charged with molesting and murdering her.
April 20, 1997: Laura Kate Smither's naked body was found, decapitated.
April 3, 1997: Laura Kate Smither was abducted near her Friendswood, Texas home.
December 26, 1996: Six-year-old JonBenét Ramsey was found strangled to death in the basement of her home in Boulder, Colorado.
Autumn 1996: A five-year-old girl was raped and killed in Oskarshamn, Sweden.
August 31, 1996: Four-year-old Nadine Lockwood is found intentionally starved to death and severely neglected in her mother's apartment. Her parents, Carla Lockwood and Leroy Dickerson, were tried separately and convicted for their role in her death.
June 6, 1996: Darlie Routier's two sons Damon and Devon were stabbed to death in Rowlett, Texas. The mother was later found guilty of the crime.
January 17, 1996: Amber Hagerman disappeared near her home in Arlington, Texas, and was found murdered four days later. Her death inspired the AMBER Alert broadcast system to help find missing kids.
---Wikipidia

It pained me to write this, but I think I made my point. Martial arts can be fun, but whatever the parents choose, the art should have an element of real self defense geared toward escaping would-be snatchers--a children's program MUST train awareness and what to do if approached by strangers; anything less is completely irresponsible, and a real missed opportunity.

 

[Andrew Green]

Is this honestly a real threat in some areas? Child abductions are rare, ones that are done by a stranger extremely rare. Teaching a kid to gouge eyes and smash testicals just seems wrong. What happens if they get in a fight with another child?

Children, IMO, should be free to have fun, to learn through playing, but I don't think children should be taught that they need to constantly be on the look out for someone trying to abduct them at random.

So I did a little research, and came up with this for Candada:

For the years 2000 and 2001, an analysis of the CPIC database stranger abduction missing category showed that there were two "true" stranger abductions entered in this category. A search of the MCR database for stranger abduction cases revealed that there were an additional three "high profile" stranger abduction cases. Thus, for analytical purposes, a total of five stranger abduction cases were grouped together and compared using a case-by-case type analysis.

http://www.ourmissingchildren.gc.ca/omc/publications/002/abduction_e.htm#tab_1


That's 5 kids (all girls) over 2 years.

Hardly what I would consider a High risk for children, they have much more real risks in there lives without introducing this a big one.

Besides, of those ages (5,5,10,10, and 9) are not going to be able to fight off a adult anyways. Make them made maybe, but not fight them off.

This seems like it would be more of a parents issue, if they want to get into it then that is there choice, but the danger of a stranger abduction is extremely low, and they should be there to have fun, not to learn fear.

 

[MJS]

Is this honestly a real threat in some areas? Child abductions are rare, ones that are done by a stranger extremely rare. Teaching a kid to gouge eyes and smash testicals just seems wrong. What happens if they get in a fight with another child?

This is why its important to stress to the child what to use and when/when not to use what they know. If things like this are too violent for kids then a) what should they be taught and b) should they even be allowed to enroll in a MA program? Is kicking someone in the groin any worse than punching someone in the face or getting them in a rear naked choke?

Children, IMO, should be free to have fun, to learn through playing, but I don't think children should be taught that they need to constantly be on the look out for someone trying to abduct them at random.

I agree. But, its no different than an adult who has their head in the clouds and they get mugged or a female gets her purse stolen. I recently started a thread on being aware.

So I did a little research, and came up with this for Candada:



http://www.ourmissingchildren.gc.ca/omc/publications/002/abduction_e.htm#tab_1


That's 5 kids (all girls) over 2 years.

Hardly what I would consider a High risk for children, they have much more real risks in there lives without introducing this a big one.

Besides, of those ages (5,5,10,10, and 9) are not going to be able to fight off a adult anyways. Make them made maybe, but not fight them off.

This seems like it would be more of a parents issue, if they want to get into it then that is there choice, but the danger of a stranger abduction is extremely low, and they should be there to have fun, not to learn fear.

Results will vary from place to place. I did a search too and came up with this. So..this brings us back to the original point from my thread: What are the best tools for a child? I'll also add, that I've walked into many stores as well as the post office, and see posters of missing and abducted children. It happens more times than not unfortunately.

Mike

 

[Andrew Green]

Results will vary from place to place. I did a search too and came up with this. So..this brings us back to the original point from my thread: What are the best tools for a child? I'll also add, that I've walked into many stores as well as the post office, and see posters of missing and abducted children. It happens more times than not unfortunately.

Mike

Missing, yes, there is a lot more of those. But most missing children are not stranger abductions. Most are either run aways, or family abducted. Very few child abductions seem to come from strangers.

 

[MJS]

Missing, yes, there is a lot more of those. But most missing children are not stranger abductions. Most are either run aways, or family abducted. Very few child abductions seem to come from strangers.

So the child should not fight back because its his Aunt, Uncle or Cousin that took them? I don't have kids, but if I did and they were abducted by a family member, they should be thankful that all they got from the child was a kick in the groin, because I can assure you, they would regret the day they met me. Family or not, all bets are off at that point.

So, what do you think is best for a child to learn? I'm sure you have kids at your school. What do you teach them?

Mike

 

[shesulsa]

Missing, yes, there is a lot more of those. But most missing children are not stranger abductions. Most are either run aways, or family abducted. Very few child abductions seem to come from strangers.

Um ... I think you might be confusing abduction with abuse. People a child knows have little reason to abduct them suddenly as opposed to use them for sick purposes on an ongoing, secretive basis.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I don't think, at least here in the states, that MOST abductions happen with people the child knows - abuse, sex abuse and assault mostly comes from people the child knows - but I'm *pretty sure* most abductors are strangers here.

Anyhow, what do you think are some good and realistic defensive tactics a child can take that can be taught in a martial-type class?

 

[bydand]

Is this honestly a real threat in some areas? Child abductions are rare, ones that are done by a stranger extremely rare. Teaching a kid to gouge eyes and smash testicals just seems wrong. What happens if they get in a fight with another child?

That's 5 kids (all girls) over 2 years.

Hardly what I would consider a High risk for children, they have much more real risks in there lives without introducing this a big one.

I know the actual numbers are very low, but I will also bet everything I own, there are 5 sets of parents and/or caregivers in Canada that have asked themselves countless times if they had given their kids everything they could have to help keep them safe. And if they had know an eye gouge or other tactic, would they be safe at home with just a terrifing story of the day they were almost grabbed. As a father to 4 boys I know I would torment myself for the rest of my life with those questions. I hope and pray that nobody here ever has to ask themselves questions like this, and if they do (God forbid) I hope they can answer that they did in fact give their kids tools to use.

IMHO it isn't about the numbers of actual cases that do happen, but about keeping YOUR OWN child from becoming part of that tiny statistic. Eye gouges, groin kicks/hits, yelling help, screaming somebody isn't a parent, ear pops, biting, etc... all fair game and I know my boys will/do know them all.

As for introducing this risk, WE are not introducing the risk, it is there already, we are providing a possable solution to the risk.

 

[MJS]

I know the actual numbers are very low, but I will also bet everything I own, there are 5 sets of parents and/or caregivers in Canada that have asked themselves countless times if they had given their kids everything they could have to help keep them safe. And if they had know an eye gouge or other tactic, would they be safe at home with just a terrifing story of the day they were almost grabbed. As a father to 4 boys I know I would torment myself for the rest of my life with those questions. I hope and pray that nobody here ever has to ask themselves questions like this, and if they do (God forbid) I hope they can answer that they did in fact give their kids tools to use.

IMHO it isn't about the numbers of actual cases that do happen, but about keeping YOUR OWN child from becoming part of that tiny statistic. Eye gouges, groin kicks/hits, yelling help, screaming somebody isn't a parent, ear pops, biting, etc... all fair game and I know my boys will/do know them all.

As for introducing this risk, WE are not introducing the risk, it is there already, we are providing a possable solution to the risk.

Scott, a very well worded post! Thank you! Like I said, I based this thread off of another one in GMA. I'm not necessarily looking for stats, but as you and a few others said, I'm looking for the tools that best service the job.

Mike

 

[Shaderon]

Is this honestly a real threat in some areas? Child abductions are rare, ones that are done by a stranger extremely rare. Teaching a kid to gouge eyes and smash testicals just seems wrong. What happens if they get in a fight with another child?

Children, IMO, should be free to have fun, to learn through playing, but I don't think children should be taught that they need to constantly be on the look out for someone trying to abduct them at random.

So I did a little research, and came up with this for Candada:



http://www.ourmissingchildren.gc.ca/omc/publications/002/abduction_e.htm#tab_1


That's 5 kids (all girls) over 2 years.

Hardly what I would consider a High risk for children, they have much more real risks in there lives without introducing this a big one.

Besides, of those ages (5,5,10,10, and 9) are not going to be able to fight off a adult anyways. Make them made maybe, but not fight them off.

This seems like it would be more of a parents issue, if they want to get into it then that is there choice, but the danger of a stranger abduction is extremely low, and they should be there to have fun, not to learn fear.

Your stats may be right Andrew I'm not disputing anyone's findings without knowing more about where they come from etc, but if your stats found that one child in a hundred thousand got abducted by a stranger, then that child turned out to be MY child.... I'd want her to have the tools to defend herself, or at least get away. Each child no matter how small a percentage they may represent is a person and someone's baby.

At the moment in England there is a run of children getting abducted from their own houses, and a few weeks ago a tiny little girl got raped and killed in her own bedroom while the parents watched TV downstairs. I always lock my doors when my girl is in the house, the odds don't make me think "it's rare so it's not going to happen", I think "I'm helping make them odds rarer".

I'd also like to know, what do you all train kids against?

P.S. I LOVE the biting one!

 

[kidswarrior]

Is this honestly a real threat in some areas? Child abductions are rare, ones that are done by a stranger extremely rare. Teaching a kid to gouge eyes and smash testicals just seems wrong.
So I did a little research, and came up with this for Candada:

http://www.ourmissingchildren.gc.ca/omc/publications/002/abduction_e.htm#tab_1


That's 5 kids (all girls) over 2 years.

Hardly what I would consider a High risk for children, they have much more real risks in there lives without introducing this a big one.

This seems like it would be more of a parents issue, if they want to get into it then that is there choice, but the danger of a stranger abduction is extremely low, and they should be there to have fun, not to learn fear.

I don't know about Canada, but here in L.A., I would say we have at least five every month, and probably that many failed attempts every week.

Yes, it's terrible that kids have to be aware of this kind of evil in the world, but they do. I mostly teach the little ones: shin kicks with a scream--and run; groin strike/kick and run; bite and scratch the grabbing arms/hands--run. Eye gouges, while I'd love for them to be able to pull it off, just don't seem to 'take' with the little ones.

 

[Andrew Green]

I know the actual numbers are very low, but I will also bet everything I own, there are 5 sets of parents and/or caregivers in Canada that have asked themselves countless times if they had given their kids everything they could have to help keep them safe.

Of course, when it happens questions on who could have done what always come up. But my point is that as the risk is incredibly low, is it really something children should be taught to fear?

Accidents are the leading cause of death among children and youth, accounting for 784 deaths in 2001. Two out of three of those were transport accidents.

http://142.206.72.67/02/02b/02b_004_e.htm

They have a far greater chance of dieing from car accident then they do of being abducted, and death is worse then abduction, yet we teach that cars are safe, and part of everyday life.

Among this age group in 2001, suicide was responsible for 6.4% of deaths, down from 9.5% in 2000.

Suicide is also a much bigger risk then abduction.

As are countless other things. Abduction is tragic when it happens, but it is a very low risk. I'd be willing to be that more children die from drowning then abduction, but we don't teach to stay away from water. I'd also bet that also bet that countless other, day to day activities that we teach as being safe are more likely then abduction.

So why does abduction cause such a dissproportionate fear?

Or at least distorted one. The biggest risk for abduction is not a stranger, but someone very close to the child. Someone that they would probably trust, and not be gouging eyes and kicking groins on. But we teach them to trust those people, and go to them for help. But looking at the statistics you might actually come to believe that the safest people for children to go to, at elast when it comes to avoiding abduction, are complete strangers.

 

[kidswarrior]

Your stats may be right Andrew I'm not disputing anyone's findings without knowing more about where they come from etc, but if your stats found that one child in a hundred thousand got abducted by a stranger, then that child turned out to be MY child.... I'd want her to have the tools to defend herself, or at least get away. Each child no matter how small a percentage they may represent is a person and someone's baby.

At the moment in England there is a run of children getting abducted from their own houses, and a few weeks ago a tiny little girl got raped and killed in her own bedroom while the parents watched TV downstairs. I always lock my doors when my girl is in the house, the odds don't make me think "it's rare so it's not going to happen", I think "I'm helping make them odds rarer".

I'd also like to know, what do you all train kids against?

P.S. I LOVE the biting one!

Great post.

 

[jks9199]

Is this honestly a real threat in some areas? Child abductions are rare, ones that are done by a stranger extremely rare. Teaching a kid to gouge eyes and smash testicals just seems wrong. What happens if they get in a fight with another child?

Children, IMO, should be free to have fun, to learn through playing, but I don't think children should be taught that they need to constantly be on the look out for someone trying to abduct them at random.

So I did a little research, and came up with this for Candada:



http://www.ourmissingchildren.gc.ca/omc/publications/002/abduction_e.htm#tab_1


That's 5 kids (all girls) over 2 years.

Hardly what I would consider a High risk for children, they have much more real risks in there lives without introducing this a big one.

Besides, of those ages (5,5,10,10, and 9) are not going to be able to fight off a adult anyways. Make them made maybe, but not fight them off.

This seems like it would be more of a parents issue, if they want to get into it then that is there choice, but the danger of a stranger abduction is extremely low, and they should be there to have fun, not to learn fear.

While stranger abductions of children are LESS common than some form of parental/custody abduction, they are a real and valid threat. And not all attacks are abduction attempts; sometimes the focus is the attack and incapacitation. Nor are all the assailants adults...

I'd love to tell you the world is safe, and that kids can run and play and disappear between school and dinner (or sometimes sunset) and all day on weekends -- like I did when I was a kid -- but it's not. It wasn't then. It's even less so now. Unless you've developed a forcefield to keep bad people away -- kids today need to learn valid & effective self-defense. When I was kid, I knew that if I was in trouble, I could rely on going to nearly any house in the community and getting help. Today, many parents work two or more jobs, and nobody is home. If they are home -- they may not open the door for a strange child... especially if that child is being chased.

Kids NEED to learn self defense. In fact, I'm a big advocate of teaching realistic self defense as part of the (neglected) physical education program, starting in kindergarden and continuing through high school. The scope and methodology of teaching should change as the kids age -- but it should be part of the program from the earliest steps. (Kindergarden might be simply yelling "stop -- you're not my daddy" while HS should include effective defenses against grabs, etc.)

That said -- the first thing I focus on with young students is being aware of the environment, and then saying "NO" or "STOP" to an adult. Many of them CAN'T do so without practice, and encouragement. Then, I teach simple targets selected for maximum effect -- eyes, groin, knees & throat, along with simple, but effective, methods for breaking grabs. As important as teaching the how, though, is to teach the WHEN. When to initiate it (as soon as possible!), and what situations to use it in. And all of it is followed up with constant reinforcement of getting ADULT help.

 

[MJS]

Of course, when it happens questions on who could have done what always come up. But my point is that as the risk is incredibly low, is it really something children should be taught to fear?



http://142.206.72.67/02/02b/02b_004_e.htm

They have a far greater chance of dieing from car accident then they do of being abducted, and death is worse then abduction, yet we teach that cars are safe, and part of everyday life.



Suicide is also a much bigger risk then abduction.

As are countless other things. Abduction is tragic when it happens, but it is a very low risk. I'd be willing to be that more children die from drowning then abduction, but we don't teach to stay away from water. I'd also bet that also bet that countless other, day to day activities that we teach as being safe are more likely then abduction.

So why does abduction cause such a dissproportionate fear?

Or at least distorted one. The biggest risk for abduction is not a stranger, but someone very close to the child. Someone that they would probably trust, and not be gouging eyes and kicking groins on. But we teach them to trust those people, and go to them for help. But looking at the statistics you might actually come to believe that the safest people for children to go to, at elast when it comes to avoiding abduction, are complete strangers.

Sure it is possible that little Johnnys Uncle Joe may arrive and tell Johnny that he needs to take him because Mommy and Daddy can't pick him up, etc., etc. But we're not taking into consideration that Johnny may be wondering why Unlce Joe is not taking him to see Mom and Dad. Many schools, at least here in CT., do not allow anyone other than the parent to take the child, unless permission is granted. Safety measures are in place and yes I know that they can fail.

Its hard to put a number on how many are related and non related abductions. It does happen and it should not be assumed that it does not.

Again, I didn't start this thread to talk about stats. I want to hear about the best tools to use. I'm still waiting for your contributions.

Mike

 

[Andrew Green]

I'd love to tell you the world is safe, and that kids can run and play and disappear between school and dinner (or sometimes sunset) and all day on weekends -- like I did when I was a kid -- but it's not. It wasn't then. It's even less so now.

Can you point me to some stats that show it is less so. All of the ones I have ever seen show that things are a lot safer now.

It's odd, the areas that the kids still have that freedom are the areas that most parents wouldn't let there kids even visit without a 2 man security force...

I think it's rather sad that kids no longer have freedom, and I worry how that will effect this generation when they reach adulthood and where never able to explore the neighbouhood and play in the park unsupervised growing up.

 

[Shaderon]

Sorry for this again but I just have to say these couple of points.

Of course, when it happens questions on who could have done what always come up. But my point is that as the risk is incredibly low, is it really something children should be taught to fear?

Yes. Speaking as a mum.

They have a far greater chance of dieing from car accident then they do of being abducted, and death is worse then abduction, yet we teach that cars are safe, and part of everyday life.

I don't, I teach my girl to look before crossing the road with us and not to run risks near cars because they will "squish" her and it'll hurt. Someone else told her at 3 years old that if she gets hit by a car she'll leak blood everywhere and be dead forever, she took it on the chin and understands it.

I'd be willing to be that more children die from drowning then abduction, but we don't teach to stay away from water.

I do, my kid knows how to swim in a controlled environment and is going to learn how to swim with her clothes on as soon as she's strong enough to learn. She knows to stay away from water when on her own the same way as she knows to stay away from strangers and not leave my sight.

I also bet that countless other, day to day activities that we teach as being safe are more likely then abduction.

Yep and she learns about all of them as soon as the opportunity arises too. e.g. We had a fireguard but taught her that fire burns and not to touch it.

So why does abduction cause such a dissproportionate fear?

I dont think it does, it's just what we're talking about here. (hint)

The biggest risk for abduction is not a stranger, but someone very close to the child. Someone that they would probably trust, and not be gouging eyes and kicking groins on. But we teach them to trust those people, and go to them for help. But looking at the statistics you might actually come to believe that the safest people for children to go to, at elast when it comes to avoiding abduction, are complete strangers.

Yep, you've made a valid point, and screening a carer is something parents should be extreemly careful about, children are less likely to defend themselves against someone they know, but if we impress on them that they have the right to defend themselves in a bad situation, just like they have the right to phone "childline" or whatever is similar in your country then that's part of the training. Parents have got to be part of this training and education in my opinion and if they are unwilling to be, then I think there's something wrong there and my red lights would come on.

Ok sorry guys, back to the subject. Sorry I posted as you were doing so MJS.

 

[CoryKS]

Of course, when it happens questions on who could have done what always come up. But my point is that as the risk is incredibly low, is it really something children should be taught to fear?

I don't think it needs to be taught in such a way that the child is fearful. The kids at our school still have fun. I explained it to my son as a fact of life rather to be aware of, but it's not on his mind every waking hour. Where people go wrong is that in their zeal to impress upon their child the danger of abduction, they sound like they're describing the boogeyman. Yeah, that would terrify a kid. IMO, it should be presented like any other danger.

They have a far greater chance of dieing from car accident then they do of being abducted, and death is worse then abduction, yet we teach that cars are safe, and part of everyday life.

And we've discussed the dangers of being in a car, and we make sure he buckles every time. We're not hysterical about it, but we don't mince words. Once while crossing a street he saw a rabbit that had been hit by a car, its entrails in a pile next to it. I told him that's what happens when you don't look both ways. He hasn't forgotten the rabbit.

Suicide is also a much bigger risk then abduction.

Not in the age group we're discussing.

As are countless other things. Abduction is tragic when it happens, but it is a very low risk. I'd be willing to be that more children die from drowning then abduction, but we don't teach to stay away from water. I'd also bet that also bet that countless other, day to day activities that we teach as being safe are more likely then abduction.

We've taught our child to swim and to be comfortable in the water, but we have also explained the dangers of drowning. He's swallowed enough water to understand the concept very well. You have to identify the possible risks and address them, but don't ignore a risk because some are more probable.

So why does abduction cause such a dissproportionate fear?

It's not a disproportionate fear, just one factor that needs to be taken into consideration.

Or at least distorted one. The biggest risk for abduction is not a stranger, but someone very close to the child. Someone that they would probably trust, and not be gouging eyes and kicking groins on. But we teach them to trust those people, and go to them for help. But looking at the statistics you might actually come to believe that the safest people for children to go to, at elast when it comes to avoiding abduction, are complete strangers.

This is a bad situation, because ultimately you can never tell what someone has going on in their mind, even someone close and trusted. This is why you have to have the discussion about inappropriate contact, no matter how uncomfortable it may be. I think that this category of predator is less likely to use force, but would try to coax the child to go along and use emotional tactics - because if the child is a participant, even a reluctant one, they are less likely to tell someone than if someone just uses force on them. This is another area of SD that needs to be taught to kids but again, you explain it as a fact of life rather than make a campfire story out of it. You can teach them these things without scaring the bejeezus out of 'em.

 

[CoryKS]

Took a while to write that last post, and I came back to find that I'd written pretty much the same thing Shaderun wrote! Sorry, Shaderun. And... good post!

 

[kidswarrior]

I know the actual numbers are very low, but I will also bet everything I own, there are 5 sets of parents and/or caregivers in Canada that have asked themselves countless times if they had given their kids everything they could have to help keep them safe. And if they had know an eye gouge or other tactic, would they be safe at home with just a terrifing story of the day they were almost grabbed. As a father to 4 boys I know I would torment myself for the rest of my life with those questions. I hope and pray that nobody here ever has to ask themselves questions like this, and if they do (God forbid) I hope they can answer that they did in fact give their kids tools to use.

IMHO it isn't about the numbers of actual cases that do happen, but about keeping YOUR OWN child from becoming part of that tiny statistic. Eye gouges, groin kicks/hits, yelling help, screaming somebody isn't a parent, ear pops, biting, etc... all fair game and I know my boys will/do know them all.

As for introducing this risk, WE are not introducing the risk, it is there already, we are providing a possable solution to the risk.

Whoa!! In my multi-tasking between this thread and other stuff, I missed this post. AWESOME! :asian:

 

[Shaderon]

I am loving this discussion, but like MJS said, it's not the topic here, the topic here is what we teach the kids.

Can the thread be split if we're going to continue? Is that an option?