Started BJJ. Leave everytime feeling frustrated

[Dborns]

I've been with a gym for almost two years doing KM. I love it even though I'm a slow learner and also just turned 50. I'm in pretty good physical shape, 6’2 and 200lbs. They have BJJ class at the same time as KM, and it looked fun. My thought was if I fail KM in a fight, and go to the ground, I need to know what to do. I started BJJ a month ago and love the one on one, but leave frustrated every time. I don't know what to do, so I feel like I'm basically flopping around, giving up an arm or leg, or getting pulled into the same problem everytime. I also have some issue with patience. As in I'll see guys rolling for a full three minutes with not many changes. I feel like I need to constantly be moving to get out of a hold and then I'm drained. Obviously all the moves we work on before rolling are new to me but not for others do I get countered everytime I try something. It just sucks to feel like quitting because I leave everytime feeling like I got my butt handed to me.
On a positive note, I hope all gyms are like the one I'm at. Great coaches and the members are polite and not cocky but great about helping new people like myself.

 

[Simfers]

Look around you in that school, and remember that EVERYBODY, including the instructors and the people kicking your butt on the regular, has been where you are. It's normal. BJJ is a complex beast, and the ground is an unfamiliar terrain.

In the beginning, focus on surviving. That means minding your limbs and your neck, of course (though they WILL get snatched up), but mostly it means relaxing, becoming comfortable in the worst of positions, even and especially when you're carrying someone's weight and you have issues breathing. Then you'll start seeing openings.

And that'll take time. Been in BJJ for over a year (with some ground training before, even), got three stripes on my white belt and I'm still not really there yet. I still panic sometimes. But that's your goal. Our goal. It's achievable.

Welcome to BJJ. Enjoy the puzzle.

 

[drop bear]

Yep. That is basically how BJJ works.

 

[Nachi]

I've been doing BJJ for 6 months now. Started 4 months in the beginner class, which was ok as we were at the same level. Though as a lady I could hardly do anything about this one jacked guy of probably a 100 kg, super strong. Then I, as the only one from that group joined the gi class, where I am also the only women, and the beginner. The odds are not in my favor.

I don't really feel too frustrated most of the times, though, as I simply found out that I cannot expect to beat anyone there, except for maybe the two slim, less athletic, kind of beginner guys sometimes.
Everyone else is bigger, stronger and more experienced (or at least has a mix of two of those qualities), so I really have no chance and simply do my best to defend my limbs as long as I possibly can

I do get frustrated, though, when I get caught in an armbar a couple of times in a row and announce to my partner that next time he taps me, it absolutely won't be an armbar! And he'd proceed to sub me on that a couple more times....

Anyway, I am, like you, also doing a striking art - karate. I am not there at the BJJ class to chase belts. I just want to learn more grappling. In fact, I really enjoy being a stripeless white belt. Nobody has any expectations of me, I can just keep doing dumb mistakes, and if I surprise someone with something, it can only be in a positive way
So I am just there to have fun. And the guys are also nice, and helpful.
And with this mindset, I enjoy the classes, without feeling to much pressure of frustration.

 

[Dborns]

I've been doing BJJ for 6 months now. Started 4 months in the beginner class, which was ok as we were at the same level. Though as a lady I could hardly do anything about this one jacked guy of probably a 100 kg, super strong. Then I, as the only one from that group joined the gi class, where I am also the only women, and the beginner. The odds are not in my favor.

I don't really feel too frustrated most of the times, though, as I simply found out that I cannot expect to beat anyone there, except for maybe the two slim, less athletic, kind of beginner guys sometimes.
Everyone else is bigger, stronger and more experienced (or at least has a mix of two of those qualities), so I really have no chance and simply do my best to defend my limbs as long as I possibly can

I do get frustrated, though, when I get caught in an armbar a couple of times in a row and announce to my partner that next time he taps me, it absolutely won't be an armbar! And he'd proceed to sub me on that a couple more times....

Anyway, I am, like you, also doing a striking art - karate. I am not there at the BJJ class to chase belts. I just want to learn more grappling. In fact, I really enjoy being a stripeless white belt. Nobody has any expectations of me, I can just keep doing dumb mistakes, and if I surprise someone with something, it can only be in a positive way
So I am just there to have fun. And the guys are also nice, and helpful.
And with this mindset, I enjoy the classes, without feeling to much pressure of frustration.

I think my frustration is due to how I've been with anything else I've tried to learn. Whether it is KM, firearms, or any other hands-on stuff, for some reason I think just seeing someone demonstrate something a few times means I should have it down. It's been an issue my whole life.... People can make things look so easy, and then I try and look foolish. But don't get me wrong, I love the one on one and the workout. Also, just like you, I'm not learning to compete, I'm learning to protect myself because in my job I maybe on my own for awhile trying to stop violence, so I absolutely need to know what I'm doing on the ground.

 

[Dborns]

Look around you in that school, and remember that EVERYBODY, including the instructors and the people kicking your butt on the regular, has been where you are. It's normal. BJJ is a complex beast, and the ground is an unfamiliar terrain.

In the beginning, focus on surviving. That means minding your limbs and your neck, of course (though they WILL get snatched up), but mostly it means relaxing, becoming comfortable in the worst of positions, even and especially when you're carrying someone's weight and you have issues breathing. Then you'll start seeing openings.

And that'll take time. Been in BJJ for over a year (with some ground training before, even), got three stripes on my white belt and I'm still not really there yet. I still panic sometimes. But that's your goal. Our goal. It's achievable.

Welcome to BJJ. Enjoy the puzzle.

I was told by a previous co-worker that's been training for a couple years to just train on defense for awhile. Don't get into offense to quick. I find myself apologizing to my training partners because I feel like I'm taking time from their training to "babysit" me while I flop around and don't know what I'm doing.

 

[Nachi]

I was told by a previous co-worker that's been training for a couple years to just train on defense for awhile. Don't get into offense to quick. I find myself apologizing to my training partners because I feel like I'm taking time from their training to "babysit" me while I flop around and don't know what I'm doing.

I have the same feeling, too, and always wait for who is left to be my partner. Because I feel like I'll be holding them back. And if tehy don't tap me right away, I feel like they are just going easy on me. Sometimes it is very obvious they do, but sometimes I can't tell, but assume so.

The other day the one who remained for me was the nly black belt. So I felt awful right from the beginning and did my best to struggle and be a little worthwhile. When we finished the round by me tapping, of course, I apologized for being such an easy opponent, that I would just choke myself without really him really trying. He looked at me and said: "But I did have to try quite a bit."

Which really surprised me and made me feel better, but I am still not sure how much of a consoling it was. Anyway, since then I try to tell myself that if I do my best, it is not a lost round for my partner. Hopefully. I suppose everybody has been there and I tried to imagine how I feel about beginners coming to our karate class. I don't look down on them and try to help. I don't want them to feel bad. So hopefully the BJJ guys think of beginners the same

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I've had the same thoughts with grappling. But then have to remind myself of what it's like on the other end. I can't recall any times where I felt I was having to babysit someone new when either sparring or going through basic drills for them.

First of all, I enjoy it - it's sharing a hobby with someone and sharing my own expertise which is always nice.

Second - there's plenty to learn even from sparring or drilling with noobs. Sometimes even more than going against people at your level. If I'm trying to keep something basic, or trying to help someone else work through a basic concept, I have to think of it from the foundational level, which I otherwise wouldn't have a need to do. So it helps me go back to my own basics and can give me a new perspective.

Third - Everyone was a beginner at some point. Just like how they're helping you, someone else helped them. And you ideally will help someone else when you're the advanced practitioner and someone new comes along. It's how the arts stay relevant and improving.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I've had the same thoughts with grappling. But then have to remind myself of what it's like on the other end. I can't recall any times where I felt I was having to babysit someone new when either sparring or going through basic drills for them.

First of all, I enjoy it - it's sharing a hobby with someone and sharing my own expertise which is always nice.

Second - there's plenty to learn even from sparring or drilling with noobs. Sometimes even more than going against people at your level. If I'm trying to keep something basic, or trying to help someone else work through a basic concept, I have to think of it from the foundational level, which I otherwise wouldn't have a need to do. So it helps me go back to my own basics and can give me a new perspective.

Third - Everyone was a beginner at some point. Just like how they're helping you, someone else helped them. And you ideally will help someone else when you're the advanced practitioner and someone new comes along. It's how the arts stay relevant and improving.

With all that said, there are still going to be people who, for whatever reason, don't want to train with newcomers (or at least, don't want to at this particular point in time). From my experience, most schools they'll be able to just match up with more advanced students most of the time, or decline if the coach/instructor asks them to run through drills with the beginners (and probably not be asked again).

And on the occasion that they do have to spar with someone new, tough. As I mentioned in the other post, people helped them when they started, they can do the same.

 

[Simfers]

I was told by a previous co-worker that's been training for a couple years to just train on defense for awhile. Don't get into offense to quick. I find myself apologizing to my training partners because I feel like I'm taking time from their training to "babysit" me while I flop around and don't know what I'm doing.

Very sound advice from your co-worker.

I understand the urge to apologize, but training with raw beginners has value too, regardless of level. A raw beginner will not move the same way as a more seasoned practitioner, so it gives the higher-ranked person different looks that can be useful.

Also, helping beginners helps you understand the techniques you're using, because you'll likely want to explain them, and their counters.

Also also, that's how you help them improve, and the better training partners you have, the more you'll improve!

Also also also, helping people get something out of something you love is fun!

So don't worry, they're getting a lot out of those rolls too.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

As the others have said, this is normal for BJJ. Everyone goes through it.

Here's my standard recommendation for minimizing frustration:

Forget about "winning" sparring sessions. You're rolling with people who have more experience than you do and they're learning and improving at the same time you are. You need incremental, achievable goals to see that you are making progress.

Step 1: You find yourself in a position (bottom of mount, guard, clinch, wherever) and have no idea what to even try doing. Your goal is to learn something to attempt when you end up in that situation. It doesn't even have to be a complete technique. It can be as simple as "from bottom of guard, try using my legs to pull my partner down and break his posture" or "from bottom of side control, try getting a little bit on my side instead of laying flat." Ask your instructor or your training partner for a starting point.

Step 2: You've learned something to try in a given position, but by the time you realize where you are and remember what you were supposed to do, it's too late and the moment has passed. No problem. Give yourself a gold star for realizing what you should have done after the fact and you have a new goal of remembering to try it in the moment next time.

Step 3: You get to a position, remember what you were supposed to do, try it ... and the technique fails completely as your partner stuffs it. No problem. Give yourself a gold star for trying an appropriate technique at the right moment. Next goal - every technique has 5-10 key details that need to be correct in order to have a chance of success. You want to identify at least one of the details that you messed up and aim to get it right next time you try the technique. (If you don't have any idea what details you might have missed, ask your instructor or training partner.)

Step 4: You get to the position, remember the technique you want to try, go for it, and get that one detail correct. The technique still fails. No problem. Give yourself a gold star for getting that one detail. Next goal, identify another detail that you need to fix and try to get it right next time. Be prepared to circle back to this step multiple times as you fix additional details.

Step 5: You've fixed enough of the technical details that sometimes you try it in sparring and it actually works. Yay! You're starting to feel good about that move. Give yourself a gold star. But then you try it against another sparring partner and it gets totally shut down and you end up in a worse position than if you hadn't tried anything. Oh no! What's going on? There are a few possibilities: maybe there are more details you need to fix. Maybe that was actually the wrong moment for that particular technique. Maybe you did the technique correctly, but your sparring partner knew a counter that you didn't know how to adapt to. New goal, figure out which it is. If there are more details, pick one out and go back to step 4. If it was the wrong moment, find out what distinguishes the right moment vs the wrong moment for this technique and what technique you should have tried instead. If it was a counter, ask about the counter for the counter. Be p[repared to go back to step 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 with this new information.

Step 6: Realize that there are too damn many techniques to memorize all the details of all the variations in all the different circumstances. Start looking for the common underlying principles - the movement patterns, structures, and tactical principles that show up over and over again in takedowns, escapes, sweeps, submissions, pins, and transitions. Every time you can say "hey, this technique is using the same concept as this seemingly different technique, just in a different context" give yourself another gold star. Your new goal is to understand the "why" of every detail of every technique that your instructor shows. You may also start spontaneously inventing new variations of technique on the fly in sparring.

Step 7: You're starting to feel pretty good about your progress and you're rolling well with your regular sparring partners. Then one day a new sparring partner shows up and you can't do anything to them. Or someone introduces a new set of techniques that you've never seen before and you can't get the hang of it. Or someone shows a completely new way to do a basic technique that you learned in your first week of training that works twice as well as the way you've been doing it all this time. Go back to step 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 and start all over again. Be prepared to do this repeatedly for decades.

Hope this helps!

 

[Buka]

Welcome to Martial Talk, Dborns.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Whether it is KM, firearms, or any other hands-on stuff, for some reason I think just seeing someone demonstrate something a few times means I should have it down.

If this was true, then it would mean there wasn't anything substantial there to learn.

One mark of an expert is that they can make a skill look so effortless and straightforward that anyone should be able to do it. This is an illusion. The way they achieved that expertise is by trying and failing many more times than a beginner or intermediate practitioner has even tried.

 

[drop bear]

I think my frustration is due to how I've been with anything else I've tried to learn. Whether it is KM, firearms, or any other hands-on stuff, for some reason I think just seeing someone demonstrate something a few times means I should have it down. It's been an issue my whole life.... People can make things look so easy, and then I try and look foolish. But don't get me wrong, I love the one on one and the workout. Also, just like you, I'm not learning to compete, I'm learning to protect myself because in my job I maybe on my own for awhile trying to stop violence, so I absolutely need to know what I'm doing on the ground.

Start taking control of your learning a bit.

String together simple combinations and get good at them.

 

[Dborns]

I appreciate all the advice, really. I know I get in my head alot and make something simple way to difficult. The coaches are great because they'll show numerous different ways to do a certain move. I've tried to pick the best one that works for me and run with that. There's things I've been taught and I'm thinking “you want me to get my leg up where?” I have hip flexibility issues that I'm trying to work on to be able to move better. But, usually out of the few different ways they teach a move one will come easier than the others. I'm also probably defeating myself because when I'm rolling, I'm trying to pay attention to what they're doing and how they're moving, so I can try some counter. I can feel them making little adjustments and know I'm about to go somewhere….
Don't get me wrong, I love it, its just frustrating at times.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I feel like I'm taking time from their training to "babysit" me while I flop around and don't know what I'm doing.

Do you have a plan in your ground game? Your goal should be:

- choke,
- arm bar,
- leg bar,
- ...

 

[Cynik75]

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[Dborns]

Do you have a plan in your ground game? Your goal should be:

- choke,
- arm bar,
- leg bar,
- ...

No, I haven't learned any of that stuff yet. What I have learned from practicing and also watching is I need more patience. Initially I felt like I had to be constantly moving which lead to the flopping around feeling, and I got gassed quick. I've noticed others taking a lot of time not only on theyr feet but also in different guards.
Yesterday I concentrated more on my breathing. I was sucking wind a lot and not paying attention to my body position and how I could move slightly to improve my breaths. I've gotten my claustrophobia in check better, but I really noticed it when someone would sprawl and put all their weight on my chest. I tapped just from that quite a few times my first couple classes because I couldn't breath well and I wasn't moving my body to help that. But class was actually fun and I didn't leave as down as I have been.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

No, I haven't learned any of that stuff yet. What I have learned from practicing and also watching is I need more patience. Initially I felt like I had to be constantly moving which lead to the flopping around feeling, and I got gassed quick. I've noticed others taking a lot of time not only on theyr feet but also in different guards.
Yesterday I concentrated more on my breathing. I was sucking wind a lot and not paying attention to my body position and how I could move slightly to improve my breaths. I've gotten my claustrophobia in check better, but I really noticed it when someone would sprawl and put all their weight on my chest. I tapped just from that quite a few times my first couple classes because I couldn't breath well and I wasn't moving my body to help that. But class was actually fun and I didn't leave as down as I have been.

Something I've noticed is when rolling with people, they'll tell me I've got to move and do something when I end up in a bad position. But a lot of the time I'd rather sit there and think through my next steps before taking any action (unless they're going for an active submission). When I rush and start moving because I feel like I need to move is when I end up getting submitted. Or get overly gassed and not be able to finish all my rolls.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

No, I haven't learned any of that stuff yet. What I have learned from practicing and also watching is I need more patience. Initially I felt like I had to be constantly moving which lead to the flopping around feeling, and I got gassed quick. I've noticed others taking a lot of time not only on theyr feet but also in different guards.
Yesterday I concentrated more on my breathing. I was sucking wind a lot and not paying attention to my body position and how I could move slightly to improve my breaths. I've gotten my claustrophobia in check better, but I really noticed it when someone would sprawl and put all their weight on my chest. I tapped just from that quite a few times my first couple classes because I couldn't breath well and I wasn't moving my body to help that. But class was actually fun and I didn't leave as down as I have been.

Focusing on your breathing is an excellent place to start. Relaxed, slow, deep breathing is the way to go. If you've ever done Yoga, there is definitely some cross-over in that regard.

Regarding the perceived need for movement, there are three areas for you to focus on.

The first is knowing how and where to move. If you are moving at random just because you think you should be, then you will quickly become exhausted and often put yourself in a worse position. You don't necessarily have to know a technique for every situation at the beginning, just a few basic ideas for each position. for example, in bottom of side mount or half guard, you want to be slightly on your side facing your opponent. In bottom of closed guard, you want to use your legs to pull your partner down and break his posture while you hand fight for better grips. In top of closed guard, you want to keep your head up and your elbows in. And so on. Your sparring partner will be trying to put you out of position, so you can get a lot of survival mileage out of just getting back into good alignment. For example, when you are in top of guard, they will try to get your posture broken down and your elbows away from your body. If you just keep on pulling your elbows back to your ribs and posturing up, you will make your opponent work much harder.

The second is realizing that your movements don't have to be big. I am almost always moving while grappling, but some of the movements are practically microscopic. For example, I might be pinned flat in the bottom of side control under a strong, heavy, technical opponent. If I try to escape all at once with a big explosive movement then I won't get very far and will get tired quickly. So I do a tiny hip escape which gives me a little more space. Then I do another one, which gives me just enough leeway to turn a few degrees onto my side, allowing me to breathe. Then I do another one which gives me just enough room to wedge my arms into a better position to act as frames and absorb some of my opponent's weight. I keep making these micro adjustments until I've improved my position enough to attempt an actual escape or reversal.

The third, is knowing when to move. At some point you will want to attempt a full blown technique - a sweep, or submission or escape or guard pass. But if you try it when the opening isn't there, you're just wasting your energy. Either your opponent has to make a mistake which gives you the opportunity or you have to use a setup which creates the opportunity. This means you have to be paying as much attention to your sparring partner's body as to your own. Recognizing the right moment for a technique will take time and experience. But you can speed up the process by learning the "triggers" which signify that your partner is open for a particular technique.