Splashing Hands

[chris lomas]

Jeff,
Valuable information for sure. 'Shoshi', I'm sure I have heard that name before robably from Sifu mcNeil.

From what I've heard Lima Lama in its formation was originally more of an association of Martial Artists who shared stuff rather then a style, but over time it 'evolved' into its own thing, would that chime true to your knowledge of the history? Everyone always says Tino was an amazing martial artist so with him at the helm the art must be superb (being in the UK I have never really seen anything other then clips).

Certainly we have more then one way of doing the browns and Tiny seemed to find Change at the core of his art and would therefore, hopefully, pass that on to his students.

Thank you for your information I really appreciate it. I would love to get some footage if that would be possible (I will of course pay whatever is needed) PM me if that would be okay?
Best
Chris

 

[scythe1969]

Well, I spoke more about the whole time period with Master Lugo last night at training. He was 14/15 when he started training with Master Tino (much younger than I originally thought). He remembers all the original students and his age at the time explains why he calls most of them 'his teachers' even though technically they all would have been students. He has great stories from that time but it also illustrates that the training back then was much harsher and regimented than most of us have ever experienced.

As far as the history of Limalama is concerned... I know what I've been told and I don't claim to be a historian so locking me down to "quotable specifics" may be difficult. I know for sure that it is a conglomerate of the original Polynesian schools that are listed on the website. There is a distinct 'Polynesian Look' (my term) to the forms when they are taught in their original form. In order for us to get some of the subtleties ironed out we have been taught certain Polynesian dance steps to help work on flow. Master Tino had all the original students learn these tribal dances and some of these have forms hidden in the dance steps. There is also strong mixture of Boxing (Master Tino was an incredible boxer); a lot of our footwork (45 shuffle, walk lift, dragon shuffle, etc) has definitive traces of that. Now, the parts that I'm not sure of but have been taught as part of what I would call 'supplementary' techniques in my training are Butterfly, Dragonfly, Splashing hands and Hammer Fist (very similiar to the striking found in Lua). Last but not least there are aspects of 5 animal style Kung-Fu from Ark Wong and his Brown Monks. Predominantly, the Leopard and the Tiger. Again, this is what I've been told - not researched. As a personal note, I tend to be more of a practitioner than a historian...

I would be more than happy to share the various clips I have. My teacher has the original video tapes but I have converted most of them to some form of .mpg file so I'll PM you to work out the details of getting the files over to you. If you're interested in seeing some of the forms that we work on, I can pass on some of those as well (I video tape as much as I can just to have a frame of reference for my own training). There is a distinct difference between what I'm being taught and what is available for viewing on the web. One of the things that the art has had to deal with is its growth without Master Tino and now Limalama has become more of a mash-up of other things (Tae Kwon Do, Kenpo, etc) that were never there at the start. For instance, in its original form there were never any kicks above the waist. We only have 5 kicks and all of them are delivered low or with a stomp... Now that Rudy is back at the helm and the organization is being revitalized I'm hoping that we will be able to get back to the roots of origin. There is a ton of material to be passed on in this wonderful art.

I look forward to more dialog and I'll get the clips prepped for you as soon as I can.

Jeff

 

[marlon]

I've heard that as well.

Actually that was between he and Sifu, and neither ever talked about it that I heard.

I don't really have an understanding of what someone would now call "Splashing Hands." It, for me, was a non-existent style even back in the day. I think the Chinese Arts just like more modern ones suffer from semantical descrepancies in their identity. What I called Splashing Hands was just a nickname, a throw-a-way term from a particular perspective of stripped down teaching of the time for certain elements of Mok-Gar.

These terms have been influenced by the Japanese mindset where style names actually meant a specific, non-changing "way" of doing something. Whreas in the Chinese Arts it was a reflection of a particular philosophy from a "family style head."

Both Ark Wong, Jimmy Woo, and Ed Parker all said, "They're all the same." There is this huge body of knowledge, and how you choose to teach it, and what part you choose to focus upon, is why some give it a style name. There was a time when these style names meant more. Now the answer is to talk about philosophy of execution, training, and goals of the teacher. Call it whatever you want, Splashing Hands? Mok-Gar? Kenpo? It's all the same, and none of the same.

For me, spending an inordinate amount of time trying to tie down a name, is not as important as my continuing education of the science of execution. Some have called what I do different things on different nights based on their own background. Some say kenpo, some say not. Some say Five Animal, some say not. I've even heard Splashing Hands, I say not, but does it really matter. My teacher called it kenpo. But he called all of his work kenpo and it is all different depending upon when you learned, and what he wanted to teach you. So I call what I do, "Kenpo as I learned from my teacher in a method and manner he didn't seem to teach anyone else that I know of." Shortened to SubLevel Four or SL-4 Kenpo. There are elements of all observers recognitions, and why shouldn't it be? There truly is only one correct way to do something physically, so when you do these correct.....

"Call any of it what you will, as long as you do it looking up after I knock you down." - Haumea "Tiny" Lefiti

Hello Doc,
can you or anyone else elaborate on the foot work, please?

Respectfully,
Marlon

 

[marlon]

from what i have seen on youtube the footwork seems to be built for one on one fighting and not multiple attackers, could this be why Mr.Parker's foot work is so different. While striking the SH defender seems to be moving in anticpation of follow up strikes which seems wasted especially if there are multiple attackers. I notice though that when the SH defender moves in for a skeletal manipulation it looks much more like kempo and the foot works changes in such a manner that it could accomadate a multiple attacker scenario? Am i misunderstanding this completely? I have only seen the youtube clips

Respectfully,
Marlon

 

[Doc]

from what i have seen on youtube the footwork seems to be built for one on one fighting and not multiple attackers, could this be why Mr.Parker's foot work is so different. While striking the SH defender seems to be moving in anticpation of follow up strikes which seems wasted especially if there are multiple attackers. I notice though that when the SH defender moves in for a skeletal manipulation it looks much more like kempo and the foot works changes in such a manner that it could accomadate a multiple attacker scenario? Am i misunderstanding this completely? I have only seen the youtube clips

Respectfully,
Marlon

That's an interesting observation I had not considered, and initially you would seem to be correct. In my contact and also recollections from observing a couple of Limalama black belts who were also students of mine, the quick "drag-step shuffle" appears to be the primary footwork. Very explosive and functional in linear offensive execution.

 

[kal]

There are untold questions about Sifu Lefiti and his untimely death that remain a secret that deal with some questionable health hazards when performing some technique from this particular art .

Does anyone know what really happened to him? What caused his death? Was it training?

 

[Doc]

Does anyone know what really happened to him? What caused his death? Was it training?

Heart attack and lifestyle choices, not the arts.

 

[ChrisBlaze]

Hello anyone who is still interested in Splashing Hands, as I am.
I am attempting a short documentary film for social media, on the history of Master Haumea Lefiti's Art of Self Defense, commonly referred to as Splashing Hands. I am resurrecting this thread to invite anyone with personal knowledge of Master Lefiti's art, training and life. Not what somebody may have heard or read, but rather if there are any remaining direct students or grandstudents who can contribute, with direct experience.
My only goal is to shed some much needed light on this awesome system, without conflict. All perspectives are welcome. Please PM me.
Thank you, all. Salute

 

[ChrisBlaze]

Hello anyone who is still interested in Splashing Hands, as I am.
I am attempting a short documentary film for social media, on the history of Master Haumea Lefiti's Art of Self Defense, commonly referred to as Splashing Hands. I am resurrecting this thread to invite anyone with personal knowledge of Master Lefiti's art, training and life. Not what somebody may have heard or read, but rather if there are any remaining direct students or grandstudents who can contribute, with direct experience.
My only goal is to shed some much needed light on this awesome system, without conflict. All perspectives are welcome. Please PM me.
Thank you, all. Salute

I'd also like to add I have been training and teaching Master Lefiti's Art of Self Defense for 20+ years, and only want to promote our art for the benefit of all students and teachers. Thank you, I look forward to some support

 

[Doc]

I'd also like to add I have been training and teaching Master Lefiti's Art of Self Defense for 20+ years, and only want to promote our art for the benefit of all students and teachers. Thank you, I look forward to some support

And who taught you, "Splashng Hands?"

 

[Doc]

And who taught you, "Splashng Hands?"

Okay, since I can't get an answer, I'll say this. First "Tiny" Lefiti didn't have an art called "Splashing Hands." The term was a colloquialism. I knew and have a Lefiti Diploma on my wall and nowhere is there a reference to "Slashing Hands." The term comes from James McNeil who teaches what he says came from Haumea Lefiti, except everyone I know who was direct students of Lefiti indicates otherwise. However, he has the right to teach his interpretation of what he said he learned, but to characterize it as Lefti's Art would be incorrect. Lefiti was a student of my other Sifu Ark Wong and came to us as a student of Mok Gar, and continued his study with Sifu Wong. And while Haumea, nicknamed "Tiny," because he wasn't, used multiple names, including Gung fu to describe his own teachings, he had settled on Limalama before he passed away early at the age of 38 years old, collaborating with "Tino" Tuiolosega, Sol Kwaihewalu, Sal Esquivel, Richard Nunez, and John Louis. The only other three living direct students of Haumea Lefiti are GM Douglas Wong, GM, Wilson Quon, and Dr., Carl Totten. All of them have addressed this issue and have stated emphatically what I articulated, and the fact that James McNeil never rose above the rank of "green belt." For any additional clarifications, I suggest you contact one or all of these gentlemen directly. They are prominent on Facebook in the Ark Wong Wah Que, Kenpo Past, and Martial Science University, pages. Thank you.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Let's take a look at this video.

1. A right punches. B blocks with right hand.
2. A left punches. B blocks with right arm with left back palm strikes at A's face.
3. B left hand takes over the blocking with right hand punches at A's chin.
4. B right hand takes over the block with left hand punches at A's chin.
5. B right elbow strikes at A's face.
6. B right hand punches A's groin.
7. A right hook punches. B blocks with left hand.

Between A's left punches (at 2) until A's right hook punch (at 7), B has done 5 strikes.

If B can do 5 moves while A can only do 1 move, that means B is 5 times faster than A. Is this a realistic assumption?