Sparring

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

That's the truth and the sad thing is it's driving people away, they come here to discuss martial arts in a friendly way just to find it's turned into that site that starts with a B. I know several people who just aren't coming back here. On another thread a poor chap who had only been here a few days was being called a liar among other things. There's very little point in sticking around to be insulted ( badly) is there or to try to get a debate going. An argument is where people argue who is right, a debate is where people argue what is right, there's a big difference. I'm done with this thread, it will be locked soon I imagine.

It's the reason I take a break from this place every year or so for a long amount of time. It's also why I end up leaving/not paying attention to threads that I was interested in half the time. I could be having a good conversation with someone, come back in a few hours to 3 pages of back and forth arguing of the same posts over and over, and maybe 2 posts that relate to the OP. Just frustrating and not worth it at all, IMO.

 

[Ironbear24]

That would be because many arts share techniques, and people claim that someone charging forward throwing chain punches is doing Wing Chun or something when in fact they're just chain punching. Have a guy in the octagon doing this;

And we'd have an entirely different ball game.



Except Jow Ga and traditional CMA in general looks nothing like Muay Thai. Thus there's no way for people to confuse it with the standard kickboxing striking style you see in MMA. Additionally there would be no confusion with Bjj either, since Chinese ground fighting is rare to nonexistent because of the belief by CMA exponents that they can shrug off the takedown.

There is a way to confuse it though. It's called being ignorant. And no people arent going to perform kata in any form of combative competition. As far as the belief that cma can shrug off takedowns I believe it, but I don't think it will work 100% of the time as many factors are involved here. It really would come down to the two fighters and not their styles.

Here is a way to make that fit more into UFC. Take off the guys GI, give him some tattoos, and put him in some shorts and make sure he has a rap sheet. Make the open palms closed fists and there you go. (Disclaimer) that last paragraph was a joke.

 

[drop bear]

And why do you need proof of my abilities?

The only thing that is not resolved is your belief in my abilities and you are free to believe or not believe.

Martial arts needs to be evidence based not belief based. Otherwise martial artists will subscribe to any old thing so long as it sounds plausible.

You wind up with yellow bamboo.

Evidence based training is what separates good training from bad.

And having a look it seems to be consistant across the board.

What Martial Arts Have to Do With Atheism

 

[Ironbear24]

Martial arts needs to be evidence based not belief based. Otherwise martial artists will subscribe to any old thing so long as it sounds plausible.

You wind up with yellow bamboo.

Evidence based training is what separates good training from bad.

And having a look it seems to be consistant across the board.

What Martial Arts Have to Do With Atheism

I think the point he is trying to make is that he cares less what you think about his fighting styles effectiveness.

 

[drop bear]

I think the point he is trying to make is that he cares less what you think about his fighting styles effectiveness.

If he cared less. He would not have brought the subject up or suggested he would give whichever fighter a run for his money.

People make these statements because they care.

The original post was this.

"I wouldn't be able to touch his face before he knocks me out? Only arrogant fighters think that. And I'm sure none of them would share your assumption about my fighting skill. I actually like people who are arrogant like that not taking me serious or feel that I'm a threat. That gives me an advantage."

 

[Ironbear24]

If he cared less. He would not have brought the subject up or suggested he would give whichever fighter a run for his money.

People make these statements because they care.

The original post was this.

"I wouldn't be able to touch his face before he knocks me out? Only arrogant fighters think that. And I'm sure none of them would share your assumption about my fighting skill. I actually like people who are arrogant like that not taking me serious or feel that I'm a threat. That gives me an advantage."

That was his response to something entirely different though. Friedrice told him that the lowliest ameauture mma fighter could beat him flawlessly. He said that kind of cockiness gives him an advantage.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Martial arts needs to be evidence based not belief based. Otherwise martial artists will subscribe to any old thing so long as it sounds plausible.

You wind up with yellow bamboo.

Evidence based training is what separates good training from bad.

And having a look it seems to be consistant across the board.

"Evidence based" refers to the person taking the martial art not the person who doesn't take it. Why do you need evidence that Jow Ga works or not when you aren't the one who is doing Jow Ga? You don't take Jow Ga so it doesn't matter what works and what doesn't work in that system, since you won't be doing any of it anyway.

 

[drop bear]

"Evidence based" refers to the person taking the martial art not the person who doesn't take it. Why do you need evidence that Jow Ga works or not when you aren't the one who is doing Jow Ga? You don't take Jow Ga so it doesn't matter what works and what doesn't work in that system, since you won't be doing any of it anyway.

Well it would be nice if it worked I suppose. Kind of make it more martial arty.

 

[RTKDCMB]

How often do you spar with children?

Considering I do a self defense oriented family martial art, often. I don't go full on though.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Show me where I said any of this

It is pretty clearly implied here:

Even the bottom of the barrel UFC fighter, who never even get to fight on Free TV at the bottom of the fight card....for like $3,000-5,000.....will jack you up.....and the UFC signs up like 500+ fighters. Heck, even the average, local Pro Fighter who can't even make it to this #500 spot and be the lowest guy on the UFC roster..... you wouldn't even touch his face before he KO's you.

 

[RTKDCMB]

If there is big money you are more likley to attract quality people.

Or gold diggers.

 

[drop bear]

Or gold diggers.

Well that too.

The top competitions do attract the top guys though. Is that a given? Or does anybody have an issue with that?

 

[drop bear]

It is pretty clearly implied here:

To be honest. They are in a different league. I have sparred some of them they bashed me without trying.

I found the experience worthwhile i think it is good to test with good guys others may not see the point.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Which is the typical, and (frankly) laughable response that TMA practitioners make when the rubber hits the road.

And this statement is typical of someone who makes an assertion based on their own ignorance who cannot accept that other people have different motivations than he does.

Just out of interest; how rich and famous are YOU. Because if you are not rich and famous doing the fighting style you do then you can't be very good.

 

[Hanzou]

And this statement is typical of someone who makes an assertion based on their own ignorance who cannot accept that other people have different motivations than he does.

If I said that I practice a grappling style that is on par or superior to Bjj, Wrestling, Sambo, etc., and that I can use it against professional fighters, why would anyone be out of line to demand that I prove it?

 

[RTKDCMB]

If I said that I practice a grappling style that is on par or superior to Bjj, Wrestling, Sambo, etc., and that I can use it against professional fighters, why would anyone be out of line to demand that I prove it?

That wasn't the argument. The argument was that you seem to think that the only reason TMA practitioners are not competing in MMA to be rich and famous is because they can't, not because they just don't want to.

 

[Hanzou]

That wasn't the argument. The argument was that you seem to think that the only reason TMA practitioners are not competing in MMA to be rich and famous is because they can't, not because they just don't want to.

That would be the most logical conclusion, since TMA practicioners who enter MMA/NHB competition without significant cross-training in the core MMA styles tend to get destroyed.

 

[Buka]

I think anybody who enters a MMA/NHB competition without significant cross-training, and more important, specific training geared to the particular form of competition - is going to get destroyed, regardless of what their base art happens to be.

 

[Hanzou]

I think anybody who enters a MMA/NHB competition without significant cross-training, and more important, specific training geared to the particular form of competition - is going to get destroyed, regardless of what their base art happens to be.

Kwon Gracie has done pretty good so far, and as near as I can tell he's only using old school Gracie JJ.

Roger Gracie did pretty good in MMA using mainly Gjj as well. He did cross-train in Muay Thai to sharpen his striking though.

Point is, guys like Alan Orr or Shawn Obasi who come from TMAs like Wing Chun have to change their entire style and cross-train heavily in order to be competitive. The level of cross-training is so major for those styles that WC instructors (for example) have actually commented that TMAs like WC aren't suited MMA;

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Okay, that's odd - this showed as a response to the wrong comment. Original comment was early in the discussion, talking about being a good swimmer without swimming, etc.

I agree, in principle, but would like to propose a better comparison:
Can you call yourself a good ocean swimmer if you've only ever swam in a lake?
Can you call yourself a good road driver if you've only ever driven in a simulator?
These would be similar, in my mind, to trying to develop fighting skill for self-defense without some sparring.

At the same time, can you call yourself a good road driver if you've only ever driven on a track in races? This is an (obviously flawed) analogy for preparing for self-defense only by practicing sparring under rules (rather than including some simulation of other attack types, for instance).

There is value on both sides (sparring - including competition - and simulation of specific attacks), and ignoring either will almost certainly make your self-defense training less effective.