Sparring and My Difficulty Against Kicks

[Buka]

(Did I mention I don't always take it 100% seriously? There's a few of us that'll play about a bit.)

As tactically important, dangerous, serious, whatever - if you take things too seriously mentally, you're f'd.

 

[oftheherd1]

None that I know of. It's mostly an expression.

However once you start moving backwards and your opponent starts following and pressing with strikes, you'll probably find yourself literally on your heels after a couple steps, regardless of who taught you what.

This is why boxers, kickboxers and MMA fighters(and anyone else that includes sparring with contact in their curriculum) will teach you to angle out rather than retreat backwards.

I've been seeing that answer a lot in this thread. I sorry, but to me it sounds a little lame (no pun intended). I don't think it is an expression since it is a possible outcome for a lack of training or experience. YMMV.

 

[oftheherd1]

They are only wrong training if you are training for combat. They are perfectly valid training for sport context. Again, not everyone trains for defensive/combat usage. If someone is training specifically for high school wrestling (which a lot of kids in the US do), then assuming your opponent won't punch your head is a valid assumption - it's against the rules. That sport context doesn't have to negatively affect those of us who train for self-defense. I can still pick up some useful techniques and principles from competition wrestling, though I have to filter them through the context I train for. So I might actually train to do the technique in a way that is "wrong" for their context (exposes a leg more to takedowns, for instance) but is more "right" for my context (protects my head from punches).

I keep trying to wrap my head around a martial art that isn't a martial art, even though it is supposedly based on a martial art. I keep trying to think it out but my head starts hurting.

 

[oftheherd1]

The technique itself is "combat ready" the only variance should be the power that is put into applying it. The mindset shouldn't have any baring on the technique itself. The mindset will have baring on the power that is put into a technique. For example, a jab in point sparring is not the same power as a jab in a street fight or full contact. It's the same dangerous technique but not the same power.

How things change. During the brief time I studied TKD, we were taught to always move with maximum power. It was sort of a mantra with Mr. Rhee to the effect; "Always move with maximum power, always seek a new maximum." We were also taught to be able to strike where we intended.

 

[Dirty Dog]

How things change. During the brief time I studied TKD, we were taught to always move with maximum power. It was sort of a mantra with Mr. Rhee to the effect; "Always move with maximum power, always seek a new maximum." We were also taught to be able to strike where we intended.

The problem with this is that it results in too many injuries. And difficulty finding sparring partners. Solid contact, yes. Every possible bit of power I can deliver? No. I like the people I spar with.

 

[Martial D]

I've been seeing that answer a lot in this thread. I sorry, but to me it sounds a little lame (no pun intended). I don't think it is an expression since it is a possible outcome for a lack of training or experience. YMMV.

Have you sparred with gloves before? If it's part of your routine just try it. Have your partner storm you with a flurry and move straight backwards. You'll find it difficult to be on your toes, and difficult to do much but cover up. Then reverse the situation. You'll find it easier to land. It's just physics.

 

[oftheherd1]

The problem with this is that it results in too many injuries. And difficulty finding sparring partners. Solid contact, yes. Every possible bit of power I can deliver? No. I like the people I spar with.

Understood. However, we were required to keep a certain distance. Two or three inches from a practice opponent until we got more consistency in striking where we should. Even at green belt I wasn't much closer tht 1 1/2 inches in strikes, and more space in kicks. But there was a constant, if slow, improvement.

 

[drop bear]

any problem with this. Do a backflip with a double twist if you like. But you shouldn't get points. Unless it's a gymnastics competition

Or unless you flog the guy with it.

 

[oftheherd1]

Have you sparred with gloves before? If it's part of your routine just try it. Have your partner storm you with a flurry and move straight backwards. You'll find it difficult to be on your toes, and difficult to do much but cover up. Then reverse the situation. You'll find it easier to land. It's just physics.

Never did spar with gloves. It wasn't done back then. When I studied TKD, my recollection is that nobody would retreat more than two steps without a counter attack. And retreat or not, if anyone began ending up on their heels, there would be some retraining.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Or unless you flog the guy with it.

Nope. No backflip, and no double twist. Nice try though..........

 

[pdg]

Nope. No backflip, and no double twist. Nice try though..........

Dammit, stop moving the goalposts.

Flip I might be able to manage.

Double twist - I'm too damn old for that.

 

[Martial D]

Never did spar with gloves. It wasn't done back then. When I studied TKD, my recollection is that nobody would retreat more than two steps without a counter attack. And retreat or not, if anyone began ending up on their heels, there would be some retraining.

Yes, I agree being 'on your heels' is unequivocally bad. This is why it's important to practice angling out rather than retreating straight backwards. It's an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure situation. Bad position is better avoided than mitigated

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I keep trying to wrap my head around a martial art that isn't a martial art, even though it is supposedly based on a martial art. I keep trying to think it out but my head starts hurting.

The term I used to use was “martial sport”. I don’t now, because there’s too much overlap and difficulty in defining the difference. But any combat system can be turned into a game/sport. The rules should be based on the purpose of the game. If the point is to train fighting ability, rules should favor combat-effective techniques and strategies. If the point is fitness, the rules should favor stamina and perhaps strength. If the point is speed, the rules should favor speed (possibly punishing power by exclusion). If the point is fun and/or entertainment, the rules probably ought to favor flashy moves.

I have no problem with any of those. I could see any combat system being the base for any of them. Perhaps DD’s point about naming is all it comes down to. Perhaps “Sport TKD” would be a useful name if someone wanted to teach purely for sport, to distinguish it from the root art.

 

[pdg]

So we've had the target shooting discussion.

Javelin anyone?

 

[Mitlov]

Understood. However, we were required to keep a certain distance. Two or three inches from a practice opponent until we got more consistency in striking where we should. Even at green belt I wasn't much closer tht 1 1/2 inches in strikes, and more space in kicks. But there was a constant, if slow, improvement.

Personally, I would rather train with accurate distance but with reduced power (when the target is another person instead of a pad) instead of full power but extended distance. In an adrenaline situation, I trust myself to dial up the power more than I trust myself to adjust distance.

Totally agree that sparring with both proper distance and full power can lead to an injury rate that just doesn't work for a lot of people beyond 30 years of age. I don't mind contact, I don't mind bruises, but actual injuries mean no training, and that's bad. Anecdote time: at a tournament this weekend, a young strong guy went harder than I interpret "light contact" to be with his kicks, and dislocated my shoulder when I blocked a kick aimed for my head. I'm now out of practice for at least a week or two until it heals.

 

[oftheherd1]

Personally, I would rather train with accurate distance but with reduced power (when the target is another person instead of a pad) instead of full power but extended distance. In an adrenaline situation, I trust myself to dial up the power more than I trust myself to adjust distance.

Totally agree that sparring with both proper distance and full power can lead to an injury rate that just doesn't work for a lot of people beyond 30 years of age. I don't mind contact, I don't mind bruises, but actual injuries mean no training, and that's bad. Anecdote time: at a tournament this weekend, a young strong guy went harder than I interpret "light contact" to be with his kicks, and dislocated my shoulder when I blocked a kick aimed for my head. I'm now out of practice for at least a week or two until it heals.

Then I guess you are correct in continuing to train as you do. Since it was the way I was first taught and learned, I think the way I described was better. Everybody gets to make their own choices in training.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I've been seeing that answer a lot in this thread. I sorry, but to me it sounds a little lame (no pun intended). I don't think it is an expression since it is a possible outcome for a lack of training or experience. YMMV.

It's an expression look it up.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Personally, I would rather train with accurate distance but with reduced power (when the target is another person instead of a pad) instead of full power but extended distance. In an adrenaline situation, I trust myself to dial up the power more than I trust myself to adjust distance.

Totally agree that sparring with both proper distance and full power can lead to an injury rate that just doesn't work for a lot of people beyond 30 years of age. I don't mind contact, I don't mind bruises, but actual injuries mean no training, and that's bad. Anecdote time: at a tournament this weekend, a young strong guy went harder than I interpret "light contact" to be with his kicks, and dislocated my shoulder when I blocked a kick aimed for my head. I'm now out of practice for at least a week or two until it heals.

sorry to hear that. Not being able to practice due to an injury sucks.

 

[JowGaWolf]

The moves that you tweet to suit you is what I would call personalizations. I don't try to classify anything that looks like a personalized movement. Some techniques must be done a certain way or the technique will fail or be less effective. There Is very little that one can do to personalize a jab and still have the jab to be effective. A good example of this would be a back sweep. There is a limited number of way for back leg sweep to work and be effective. Which is why it looks the same across other systems that use it.

 

[CB Jones]

And while they're eating it, sucker punch them?

Ah.... I see you also practice the art of Jones-itsu-whohitu.