So what's a better "test" for martial arts other than MMA?

[Gerry Seymour]

The reality is that all the external factors in self defence work in your favor as much as it works against you and so near enough is generally good enough.

I'm not sure I followed that entirely, DB, so correct me if I misread it. I think you're saying that moderate improvements are useful.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Maybe you've been lucky never to have only been assaulted by incompetents. That's playing the odds, but isn't necessarily an endorsement of your training,

Knowing his background, I'm going to doubt he's been that lucky. It's possible, I suppose.

 

[Ironbear24]

Racing has tons of rules and a referee.

Otherwise i am not sure what intentions have to do with risk. Plenty of activities can have risk without bad intentions. And vica versa i suppose.

The point is the other cars aren't out to kill you or even make contact with you, so yes it is a poor example.

 

[Ironbear24]

Who knws? He works in an ER in Colorado?

Most people are pretty bad at fighting. That is why some people train.

Many people in the E.R are on drugs and can be very compative. It's not your everyday occurrence but it does happen. Ask any CNA and they'll tell you.

 

[Steve]

Many people in the E.R are on drugs and can be very compative. It's not your everyday occurrence but it does happen. Ask any CNA and they'll tell you.

Of course.

 

[drop bear]

The point is the other cars aren't out to kill you or even make contact with you, so yes it is a poor example.

So you have never driven?

 

[drop bear]

Many people in the E.R are on drugs and can be very compative. It's not your everyday occurrence but it does happen. Ask any CNA and they'll tell you.

I worked security for those sorts of guys as a patrol guard. Had a mate who did it full time. In a busy hospital in a major city.

 

[drop bear]

I'm not sure I followed that entirely, DB, so correct me if I misread it. I think you're saying that moderate improvements are useful.

Not really all these risks that occur in self defence. Are also saftey mesures. So if I get jumped by some robber and have the numbers and the weapons then I have less risk than he does.

Ultimately the risk of getting crippled or killed in a self defence is pretty slim.

So I have to have a guy who wants to attack me.

I have to be in a position for him to attack me.

He has to go from wanting to attack to actually attacking.

He has to be fairly good at violence.

He has to want to not only attack me but really want to cripple or kill me.

There is nobody to help at that point.

And bouncing you notice that people pass though all of these hurdles If the get stopped at any one the risk goes away. I can get in hundreds of situations that have the potential for violence that never eventuate.

This self promotion of self defence risk,danger of self defence and therefore self promotion of training methods is not as realistic as people would have us believe.

You are at more risk on the roads.

 

[drop bear]

That is because self defence people are training for self defence not competition.

They are not training as diligently.

Why do you think that is?

 

[drop bear]

What you would like is irrelevant. I teach for reality.

I mean it is even on the sig I have in the bottom of every post I write. You have to believe people are capable of more.

 

[drop bear]

I think this is a decent analogy in concept. It does get to the idea that competition training requires some things that defense training doesn't (higher speeds, sneaky passing, etc.), and vice-versa (intersections, speed limits, red lights, etc.).

The analogy does miss in some areas. If someone were only trained for track racing, they'd completely suck on the streets (no understanding of red lights, can't park, speeding everywhere, etc.). We wouldn't expect deficiencies of that magnitude from competition training (assuming it's hard training like MMA). And race driving is inherently more dangerous than driving on the street. There are fewer dangers numerically (fewer cars, no intersections, etc), but the magnitude of risk is so much higher. That's probably reversed from the competition vs. defense side, where there are more frequent dangers in competition (every moment you're in an MMA match, someone's trying to hit you, etc.) and more significant dangers on the street (someone might try to kill you, which they probably won't in the ring).

Exept. And here is the cool part of the analogy. They still drive to the race track.

Now this idea came to me when we were all telling war stories in the gym. That regardless if you train for the ring. You are still going to have as much access to real street experience as anybody else.

Just like the racing car guy.

 

[Ironbear24]

Exept. And here is the cool part of the analogy. They still drive to the race track.

Now this idea came to me when we were all telling war stories in the gym. That regardless if you train for the ring. You are still going to have as much access to real street experience as anybody else.

Just like the racing car guy.

And still neither the drivers on the race track or the drivers on the street will be attempting to kill you.

 

[Kickboxer101]

God is this silly thread still going

 

[RTKDCMB]

They are not training as diligently.

Do you know what 'diligent' means?

 

[Ironbear24]

God is this silly thread still going

Yup...

 

[drop bear]

Do you know what 'diligent' means?

diligent
ˈdɪlɪdʒ(ə)nt/
adjective

1. having or showing care and conscientiousness in one's work or duties.
   "after diligent searching, he found a parcel"

 

[drop bear]

God is this silly thread still going

You think near enough is good enough when it comes to self defence training.

Others don't.

 

[RTKDCMB]

diligent
ˈdɪlɪdʒ(ə)nt/
adjective

1. having or showing care and conscientiousness in one's work or duties.
   "after diligent searching, he found a parcel"

So you think someone training for self defense does not show as much care and conscientiousness in their training as someone training for competition?

 

[Steve]

And still neither the drivers on the race track or the drivers on the street will be attempting to kill you.

Statistically speaking, even if someone assaults you, mugs you, rapes you or whatever else, they are not trying to kill you.

Of course, if you are a drug addict, drug dealer, gang member or engage in any other behavior, your chances can go up.

 

[Ironbear24]

Statistically speaking, even if someone assaults you, mugs you, rapes you or whatever else, they are not trying to kill you.

Of course, if you are a drug addict, drug dealer, gang member or engage in any other behavior, your chances can go up.

The point is still relevant, people at the race track and the roads are not actively attempting to cause any damage to you.