So, I am 39, single (Divorced), no kids, and over weight, ....

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Ok there have been a few light hits through this thread, but no takers on the following:

Has Religion and it's take on Family effected expectations of others around us?

With religious freedom is it ok to expect others to behave as you do?


As with the Young Adult Male Lion that leaves and is forced to fight for his own pride, there are always some that are alone.

So, if you to not reproduce are you a genetic failure becuase you did not pass on your genes?

And who is to say that they were the right genes?

Does this mean we should look into genetic engineering only?


More to come, yet what are your thoughts on these?
 

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Rich Parsons said:
Ok there have been a few light hits through this thread, but no takers on the following:

Has Religion and it's take on Family effected expectations of others around us?

Certainly religion has effected expectations of those around us to a large degree. Catholics and others have always had higher fertility rates. This is one reason why the Protestant Reformation in Europe is being undone by demographics - Catholics are starting to outnumber Protestants in traditional Protestant countries.

Rich Parsons said:
As with the Young Adult Male Lion that leaves and is forced to fight for his own pride, there are always some that are alone.

So, if you to not reproduce are you a genetic failure becuase you did not pass on your genes?

More to come, yet what are your thoughts on these?

Genetic failure? Perhaps. Perhaps not. Has some invention or innovation of yours (general yours, not necessarily YOU specifically) contributed to the advancement and survivability of mankind? Also, reproduction alone, while necessary, is not a sole criteria for success or roaches and flies would be superior lifeforms.

Good questions.
 

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Rich Parsons said:
Has Religion and it's take on Family effected expectations of others around us?

Does it affect expectations? Probably. However, religions have been around for centuries. They are nothing new. There are certainly those that have certain expectations of other people's behaviour that are not sourced in faith.

With religious freedom is it ok to expect others to behave as you do?

No, IMO. I believe that religious freedom means that one is free to follow their own path, and that religious freedom means that it's wrong to persecute someone because their path is different.

So, if you to not reproduce are you a genetic failure becuase you did not pass on your genes?

And who is to say that they were the right genes?

Does this mean we should look into genetic engineering only?

I don't have the heart to ask some adopted children if they think their parents are genetic failures. Methinks they would say no.

One of my best friends doesn't have children, and likely won't. She is a smart woman, but her career has had its ups and downs. Yet, she always has a listening ear. She and her husband have reached out to me when I have stumbled, and they have always been there to cheer with me when things go well.

Are they genetic failures? I don't think so. On the contrary, I don't know what I would do without their friendship and support. I can't imagine life without them.
 

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Rich Parsons said:
Has Religion and it's take on Family effected expectations of others around us?
Absolutely, just look at the recent uproar over gay marriage.

With religious freedom is it ok to expect others to behave as you do?
Absolutely not, that's when religious freedom begins to morph into religious persecution.


So, if you to not reproduce are you a genetic failure becuase you did not pass on your genes?
I think our species is well beyond the point that it is urgent to reproduce.

Does this mean we should look into genetic engineering only?
I'm highly in favor of research into selectively eliminating what I like to call the "here's your sign" gene.
 

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Technopunk said:
Im in the same boat man. Only younger.

And its true, women dont want divorced men, we are damaged goods.

I wouldnt necessarily say so there is only one girl I ever dated, ( I ve never been married), but that said she would never date a divorced man, it so turned out she was a gold digger, so you are better off that anyway. Most people are just looking for a good person to settle down with, whether or not you were married would not be an issue to most, it wouldnt be an issue to me if I met the girl of my dreams tomorrow and she had been married before. Hang in there dude.
 

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Rich Parsons said:
So, I am 39, single (Divorced), no kids, over weight, and happy.

What is wrong with the above?

I have good cholesterol. (* Actually on meds to raise it *)

I am trying to loose more weight and maintain my percent body fat to below 23% and get it below 20%.

I train in martial arts, and, work in a career.


Yes, I was married, it did not work, and yes there is baggage or scars, but I think I am over most of it. (* Twitch *)

I do miss not having children, and spoil my nieces, and nephews, and my friends kids, that also call me Uncle.

So, why do people, seem to think something is broken with me, that must be fixed?

Why must I have a wife and kids to have anything? Yes they would have been great. I had a misstep and took cautions to not repeat, and just not found the right one yet.


Just curious as to why the Amercian Society in general (* others can chime in with their societies point of view, as I would like to hear it as well *), thinks that something is wrong, and poor me?

Is there a root cause to this, in our biology? Am I really broken and need to be fixed?

Is there something our society, trains its members without thinking about it? Did I miss that lesson?

Thank you for your replies.

Ya know this is a very good post, I never thought of it like that, but its almost embedded into our society that you should be married and with kids by a certain age, then you wonder the rate of divorce there is in this country. By the time you hit 30 something it almost becomes a race to the altar and that is where the problems start. I think you hit the nail in the head, now obviously there is a side of us that wants to find that special someone, but society puts it in a way where if you havent found him/her by a certain age something is wrong with you.

As for me, I am not 39 yet, I ll be 30 in the next two years, but I am taking it day by day man. I ve made enough mistakes in life to know what the hell I want in a woman, and what the hell to stay away from, and I d rather be myself all of my life than deal with some of the girl friends I ve had all over again. Deviating a bit from the topic, I will tell you this, the best relationships I ve ever had, though they obviously did not work out, but we are still friends, were spontaneous, in other words, they just happened. Whether I met them at work , or in the library or wherever, I found we had more in common than the ones I was I met at bars and what not.
 
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Jonathan Randall said:
Certainly religion has effected expectations of those around us to a large degree. Catholics and others have always had higher fertility rates. This is one reason why the Protestant Reformation in Europe is being undone by demographics - Catholics are starting to outnumber Protestants in traditional Protestant countries.

Thanks for the replies.

Jonathan Randall said:
Genetic failure? Perhaps. Perhaps not. Has some invention or innovation of yours (general yours, not necessarily YOU specifically) contributed to the advancement and survivability of mankind? Also, reproduction alone, while necessary, is not a sole criteria for success or roaches and flies would be superior lifeforms.

Good questions.

Well to answer your questions, I have some ROI's under review for Patents. I have a defensive publication, and a Patent issued, just no recognition yet. ;)

I also have software running around in military land vehicles. M1A2 Tanks and others.

Also Pick a GM Vehicle from 96 on and I will let you know how I influenced the vehicle and for the few that were not, I will openly let you know. :) (* Maybe another thread *)
 
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lady_kaur said:
I don't have the heart to ask some adopted children if they think their parents are genetic failures. Methinks they would say no.

I happen to agree. Yet, I am open to listen to other point of views to get a different perspective. :)

I have been approached by two different female same sex partners, to provide genetic material for them to have a child. I declined, because of person issues, in that I would want to be involved with the child, and not just walk away. Both couples found other donars, and life went on.



lady_kaur said:
One of my best friends doesn't have children, and likely won't. She is a smart woman, but her career has had its ups and downs. Yet, she always has a listening ear. She and her husband have reached out to me when I have stumbled, and they have always been there to cheer with me when things go well.

Yes, this is true, there are those that support others, and are happy with this.

lady_kaur said:
Are they genetic failures? I don't think so. On the contrary, I don't know what I would do without their friendship and support. I can't imagine life without them.
 
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How about a look at a recent past book. Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus.

Men are supposed to want to be alone in their caves to think and deal with issues, while women like to have a sympathetic listener, will do just that, Listen. Not give solutions to answers, or try to solve anything, just listen and empathize a little.

So, from the female perspective, that is trying to get me married with kids, is this a look into their sympathy, of just trying to be social, and there is nothing really behind what they are saying. Or, are these women serious about me needing or requiring a women and children to be complete.


There are men also who say the same, yet it does not fit this already established and published philosphy on human interactions.

So, no disrespect meant.

Thank you
 

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Rich Parsons said:
Has Religion and it's take on Family effected expectations of others around us?
Of course it has. An e-mail I received recently highlights this well:

"On Wednesday, March 1st, 2006, in Annapolis at a hearing on the proposed Constitutional Amendment to prohibit gay marriage, Jamie Raskin, professor of law at AU, was requested to testify.

At the end of his testimony, Republican Senator Nancy Jacobs said: "Mr. Raskin, my Bible says marriage is only between a man and a woman. What do you have to say about that?"

Raskin replied: "Senator, when you took your oath of office, you placed your hand on the Bible and swore to uphold the Constitution. You did not place your hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible."

The room erupted into applause."
Rich Parsons said:
With religious freedom is it ok to expect others to behave as you do?
No, I don't think it is. It is okay to expect others to allow you to behave as your religion dictates, within legal strictures - but if I expect others to behave as I do, then there is no freedom.

Rich Parsons said:
As with the Young Adult Male Lion that leaves and is forced to fight for his own pride, there are always some that are alone.
True... but young adult male lions leave the pride in search of mates. The thing is, not all of them find one (or more). On the other hand, people are not lions.

Rich Parsons said:
So, if you to not reproduce are you a genetic failure becuase you did not pass on your genes?
No, I don't think so - because I can still influence how others pass on (or don't pass on) their genes. As a teacher (middle school special education), I feel that I am having a (hopefully positive) effect on the world, without passing on my particular geneset.

Rich Parsons said:
And who is to say that they were the right genes?
A very good question. Survival of the fittest has disappeared with modern medicine, and has been further diluted by society's selection of traits that were not survival traits until very recently - for example, all other things being equal, a disabled child who has the fortune to be born into a wealthy family will be much better off than a disabled child who is born into a poor family - this child will, likely receive better care, and receive it sooner, thus improving his/her chances of surviving long enough to reproduce, for reasons that, until very recently, were irrelevant, because it is the abilities of the parent, not the child, that allow this.

Rich Parsons said:
Does this mean we should look into genetic engineering only?
No. How would you choose what to engineer? What to throw out? What about recessive genes that, individually, have a positive effect, but in combination are dangerous (e.g. a single gene for sickle-cell anemia protects against malaria - but having both can kill you)?

Rich Parsons said:
More to come, yet what are your thoughts on these?
 

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Rich Parsons said:
Men are supposed to want to be alone in their caves to think and deal with issues, while women like to have a sympathetic listener, will do just that, Listen. Not give solutions to answers, or try to solve anything, just listen and empathize a little.

So, from the female perspective, that is trying to get me married with kids, is this a look into their sympathy, of just trying to be social, and there is nothing really behind what they are saying. Or, are these women serious about me needing or requiring a women and children to be complete.

You will also see in that book a section on how 'woman want to change men', it explains that woman do tend to give advise etc and try to improve there partner, its not that they want to change the person they are, they would just like to see them be the best they can be.

This may be what your friend are doing! as someone said earlier, maybe they understand you are ok with being single but think you would be even MORE happy with a partner...trying to encourage you to be the best you can in a way.
 

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Rich Parsons said:
How about a look at a recent past book. Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus.

Men are supposed to want to be alone in their caves to think and deal with issues, while women like to have a sympathetic listener, will do just that, Listen. Not give solutions to answers, or try to solve anything, just listen and empathize a little.

So, from the female perspective, that is trying to get me married with kids, is this a look into their sympathy, of just trying to be social, and there is nothing really behind what they are saying. Or, are these women serious about me needing or requiring a women and children to be complete.


There are men also who say the same, yet it does not fit this already established and published philosphy on human interactions.

So, no disrespect meant.

Thank you

I'd be very curious to see what some other folks think of this because this is a pet peeve of mine.

I think "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" and the like can show insight in to patterns of behavior and certain types of people.

There are studies that suggest that women think differently then men, and that is likely why there are less women in engineering and the sciences. That may be true.

But what is printed as insights, and ideas...becomes a crutch. A substitute for getting to know an individual for who he or she is. It's much easier to impose a stereotype on another person than it is to actually take the time to get to know them.

There is a difference between an idea and an infliction. Inflictions hurt.
 

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lady_kaur said:
But what is printed as insights, and ideas...becomes a crutch. A substitute for getting to know an individual for who he or she is. It's much easier to impose a stereotype on another person than it is to actually take the time to get to know them.

There is a difference between an idea and an infliction. Inflictions hurt.

Personally I think [SIZE=-1]Men are from Omicron Persei 9, Women are from Omicron Persei 7.

But seriously, Id buy what you are sayin. Its very easy to latch onto those kinds of ideas and just take them at face value, and not get to know a person.
[/SIZE]
 

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I think this is a very interesting topic, and one pertinent also to me just now,
My girlfriend and I have been together for a number of years now (7 to be precise) and obviously neither of us is getting younger.
I recently celebrated my 30th birthday, by taking a dream trip to California, partially because it is something I've always wanted to do, and partially because here in Denmark there is a ridiculous tradition for punishing those who are unmarried by the time they hit 30 by dousing them in pepper, and erecting a monstrosity of a pepper mill outside their residence (usually made from several oil drums filled with concrete, imagine the logistics involved in getting rid of the junk...)
So I'm 30, unamrried but not single (never married) no kids in good shape and happy
I beleive it is a socialogical issue, not a biological one, as has already been stated, the human race is not on the edge of extinction just yet, so my decision to not procreate isn't going to affect the world population as it stands at the moment (somewhere around 6 Billion isn't it?)
That being said however, society has begun to affect my relationship with it's "norms" and expectations, the other night my girlfriend and I got into a rather heated discussion as to why we are not married (brought on by a buddy of mine who is in the middle of a divorce...) and when we boiled it down, it turns out that she is angry at me for not being in a rush to marry her and knock out some young 'uns because that is what people expect of us...
Should we really allow others to dictate to us how we should live our lives?
I personally am of the opinion that my life is mine to do with as I see fit, and I choose to spend my time enjoying my life, not going out of my way to propagate my "superior" genes
The fact that I am not married to my girlfiend does not change the way I feel about her, it just means we have the freedom to spend our money on other things than a symbolic band of gold
(Done ranting now...)
In response to one of your questions, I don't think religion is solely responsible, but it does bear some of the burden
 

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Simon Curran said:
I think this is a very interesting topic, and one pertinent also to me just now,
My girlfriend and I have been together for a number of years now (7 to be precise) and obviously neither of us is getting younger.
I recently celebrated my 30th birthday, by taking a dream trip to California, partially because it is something I've always wanted to do, and partially because here in Denmark there is a ridiculous tradition for punishing those who are unmarried by the time they hit 30 by dousing them in pepper, and erecting a monstrosity of a pepper mill outside their residence (usually made from several oil drums filled with concrete, imagine the logistics involved in getting rid of the junk...)
So I'm 30, unamrried but not single (never married) no kids in good shape and happy
I beleive it is a socialogical issue, not a biological one, as has already been stated, the human race is not on the edge of extinction just yet, so my decision to not procreate isn't going to affect the world population as it stands at the moment (somewhere around 6 Billion isn't it?)
That being said however, society has begun to affect my relationship with it's "norms" and expectations, the other night my girlfriend and I got into a rather heated discussion as to why we are not married (brought on by a buddy of mine who is in the middle of a divorce...) and when we boiled it down, it turns out that she is angry at me for not being in a rush to marry her and knock out some young 'uns because that is what people expect of us...
Should we really allow others to dictate to us how we should live our lives?
I personally am of the opinion that my life is mine to do with as I see fit, and I choose to spend my time enjoying my life, not going out of my way to propagate my "superior" genes
The fact that I am not married to my girlfiend does not change the way I feel about her, it just means we have the freedom to spend our money on other things than a symbolic band of gold
(Done ranting now...)
In response to one of your questions, I don't think religion is solely responsible, but it does bear some of the burden

Wow. I can really relate to what you are saying. My husband and I just got married last year after being together for about 8 years. We were totally happy with each and not being married. We got married for lots of reasons none of which are related to why society thinks couples should get married. We had a nice little ceremony with just the two of us, because the idea of a big wedding seems silly to us. We have nice little silver wedding bands that were not astronomical in price. I have no engagement ring because I have no need for one. I did not change my name. We have been questioned a lot about our "actions" and our relationship merely because its the opposite of what people are used to, so naturally we must be "weird" or "odd". :shrug: Not really, we are just us. That's what it comes down to.


With religious freedom is it ok to expect others to behave as you do?
I honestly don't think the states has true "freedom of religion", so I can't answer the question in that respect. Do I expect others to behave as I do? Only in terms of manners and common sense however I'm having a very hard time finding others who act with those abilities. :p

As with the Young Adult Male Lion that leaves and is forced to fight for his own pride, there are always some that are alone.
Going off of this, one thing I have noticed is that society seems to think one must have a lot of friends! And go out and do things! Often! When in reality a lot of people are OK with their own little worlds.

So, if you to not reproduce are you a genetic failure becuase you did not pass on your genes?

And who is to say that they were the right genes?

Does this mean we should look into genetic engineering only?
Since I do not want kids (ever), I do not think that makes me a genetic failure. Having kids is a choice. You either want them or you don't. Like others have mentioned, the world is severly over populated, I do not think my genes are soooo fantastic that they need passed on.

I have no opinion on genetic engineering as I've never thought about it before. Give me some time to look into it and I'll get back to you. :)
 
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lady_kaur said:
I'd be very curious to see what some other folks think of this because this is a pet peeve of mine.

I think "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" and the like can show insight in to patterns of behavior and certain types of people.

There are studies that suggest that women think differently then men, and that is likely why there are less women in engineering and the sciences. That may be true.

But what is printed as insights, and ideas...becomes a crutch. A substitute for getting to know an individual for who he or she is. It's much easier to impose a stereotype on another person than it is to actually take the time to get to know them.

There is a difference between an idea and an infliction. Inflictions hurt.

I read the book for defense. I was dating a lot when it came out. I kept hearing some catch phrases, so I did some research and then could talk the lingo, and then either get by the issue or move on to the next date in the future.

I have seen women, older, my age and younger, who "NEED" to talk. They walk into a room and talk about how hot it is while you are obviously occupied. So, you say ok let us turn on the air conditioner which would make it not so hot. This is not what they are looking for. They need to talk. So they are looking for an opening to get a conversation going. So they can talk with someone, and not be corrected or fixed, but just to empathize and or sympathize with each other.

So women talk all the time, and some people call them pushy or obnoxious or even "Bitchy". Yet these women seem to not get along with other women who also talk all the time as they do not allow for someone else to get in a word edgewise.

While one father of a young women I dated years ago, brings to mind the other side, of where we could sit in the same room, or even be on the golf course and say very little if anything, and both of us were content.

No realize these are observations that support a printed opinion, there are obviously counter examples as well.


So, if some women are just talking to talk, as they are family oriented, and wish you were or had the same experience to refer to in a conversation, then one could say this is partly our culture, mized in with some well wishing and misunderstanding.

Yet, if the culture has expectations or people (* reference the late 19th and even early 20th century term Old Maid, *) use terms that portray expectations, even with out wanting to cause harm, they still can or do.

So, the first thing a cave dweller would say is chin, up and suck in the gut and take it like a man and move on. While others would say you can never please everyone, so why try.

Yet my concern is that this could be just like terms of description for annd about race. Terms that were acceptable previously, may not be acceptable now or in the future.

So are the unmarried, or even single parents, a new demographic for us to be PC with?
 
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Sarah said:
You will also see in that book a section on how 'woman want to change men', it explains that woman do tend to give advise etc and try to improve there partner, its not that they want to change the person they are, they would just like to see them be the best they can be.

This may be what your friend are doing! as someone said earlier, maybe they understand you are ok with being single but think you would be even MORE happy with a partner...trying to encourage you to be the best you can in a way.

Sarah please bare with me. ;)

So, it is ok for women to want and to try to change those they are with, but it not ok for men to try to fix the problems that they are presented with?

Leading question, thanks for the opening.
 

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Rich Parsons said:
Sarah please bare with me. ;)

So, it is ok for women to want and to try to change those they are with, but it not ok for men to try to fix the problems that they are presented with?

Leading question, thanks for the opening.

It has never been said that it is not ok that men wants to fix things, that is your natural reaction when someone comes to you with a problem. The difference is that a lot of the time woman just want to vent, to talk through a problem so as to solve it them selves, when a man lets a woman talk about a bad day and empathise with her, she feels valued. Also I know I like it when my boyfriend gives me advice (when its wanted), its the unsolicited advice that woman dont like.

I read a really good book called Personality Plus, which gave a really cool tip. When a woman (or anyone for that matter) just feels like venting tell your partner its a poor baby story! what you are doing is saying "let me tell you about the terrible day I have had, when I have finished say "poor Baby, you must be shattered after the day you have just had" (or something to that effect).

Books like Men are from Mars are just about helping us to understand the different ways we think to enable us to ask for what we need without denying who we are.
 
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Sarah said:
It has never been said that it is not ok that men wants to fix things, that is your natural reaction when someone comes to you with a problem. The difference is that a lot of the time woman just want to vent, to talk through a problem so as to solve it them selves, when a man lets a woman talk about a bad day and empathise with her, she feels valued. Also I know I like it when my boyfriend gives me advice (when its wanted), its the unsolicited advice that woman dont like.

I read a really good book called Personality Plus, which gave a really cool tip. When a woman (or anyone for that matter) just feels like venting tell your partner its a poor baby story! what you are doing is saying "let me tell you about the terrible day I have had, when I have finished say "poor Baby, you must be shattered after the day you have just had" (or something to that effect).

Books like Men are from Mars are just about helping us to understand the different ways we think to enable us to ask for what we need without denying who we are.


You see Sarah you hit the nail on the head. If you tell your significant other, you just need to vent then it is all good. Then they other will not solve problems or issues, or what have you.

I believe people call this communication. Where both sides know what is going on, and one or both sides is allowed to speak and express themselves, while the other listens, and supports.

Hmmmm, what a novel new idea you have here. :)
 

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Rich Parsons said:
You see Sarah you hit the nail on the head. If you tell your significant other, you just need to vent then it is all good. Then they other will not solve problems or issues, or what have you.

I believe people call this communication. Where both sides know what is going on, and one or both sides is allowed to speak and express themselves, while the other listens, and supports.

Hmmmm, what a novel new idea you have here. :)

I agree, but what you may not take into account is the emotional ups and downs us ladies tend to have. I consider myself an open honest person, but it is sometimes hard to verbalise exactly what it is we want, because sometimes we just may not be sure.

I remember telling my boyfriend that one thing you will not get from an emotional woman is a logical conversation, because emotions and logical don’t always go hand in hand!

Therefore it makes life so much easier if you communicate before these times come up. Ladys need to explain that when they are feeling emotional they may lash out, but to try not to take it personally because they dont really mean to hurt you. Also if a man needs some time out, just say so to his partner, say he will be back or else she will worry that she did something wrong and he is angry at her.


Communication with patience and a loving, forgiving heart is what’s required
 
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