Should senior students be expected to teach?

[jthomas1600]

So the thread on "the role of junior instructors" got me thinking about this. At our school teaching in some form is a requirement for the last few belts leading up to black. It's a little vague so the instructor can work with each students strengths. Some are not so comfortable up in front of the whole class and may be called on more to provide one on one instruction...an example would be where there is a class with no other white belts and we have a new student, after warm ups a senior student may be called on to find a free space towards the back and familiarize the new student with the basic blocks. Most senior students all get their turn at leading warm ups as well. And they will be given the duty of holding pads during kicking drills where they are expected to provide feedback to students as needed.

So, do you do this at your schools? Do you think it's necessary? A good idea?

 

[Omar B]

Yeah, we were required to help instruct when I was a brown belt. It's easier on Sensei when he has 3 or 4 brown belts or other seniors to help walk around and check people's form while Sensei is at the front. Or we used to take the class for warm ups and basic tech for the first half before he takes over.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

We are under no obligation to become an instructor, actually the club struggles to find students to start their own clubs, in fact many instructors have 4 or 5 clubs because of this. But, as a black belt we are expected to help out in class where needed. Basically, once black belt we are seen in an assistant instructor capacity and help when required. In my class we have about 20 students who are 2nd dan or higher, so a mere 1st dan like myself is not required often.

 

[puunui]

So, do you do this at your schools? Do you think it's necessary? A good idea?

Personally, I think that students are pushed into teaching too early. To me, the only ones who should be teaching are 3rd Dans and above. But I also realize that this is not practical in a lot of schools. One instructor told me that in her dojang, she makes the belt right above help teach the students right below them. That way they practice teaching and it forces them to understand the material they just learned. Seems to work for her.

 

[dancingalone]

Yes. This is an implicit social compact in martial arts. The senior students show the newer students the ropes and in return the newbies train hard so that some day they can be suitable training partners for the seniors. So, as you advance you should be expected to share some of your experience with others.

On the other hand, I do have issues with school owners who say, "Oh, you're a black belt now. Guess what? You need to take over the Wednesday night class. Good luck!" Senior students are not free labor. They are there to learn also and the school owner/head instructor should ALWAYS make sure they leave at the end of class having learned something new.

 

[puunui]

They are there to learn also and the school owner/head instructor should ALWAYS make sure they leave at the end of class having learned something new.

Exactly. Everyday, everyone should leave class better than when they came in that day. I tell everyone I expect them to improve at least 1% every class, in something.

 

[searcher]

My structure for my students is as follows:

At green-the students need to be able to lead a warmup and be able to make minor correction of basic techniques.

At brown-the students should be able to run warmups, lead through basics, be able to teach all material up to their own rank, coach sparring, and so on. Dang near everything.

At BB(1st dan-3rd Dan) they should be able to teach class with only minor interaction from the classes main instructor. They should be able to teach all material up to their rank and they should be developing their own teaching style. These ranks will be teaching classes with an instructor present, but they should be able to do it on their own.

At 4th Dan-the students should be able to teach classes on their own, even if they do not want to teach classes. At this rank, the students should be able take over a class and have the students make progress(not just get by). At this rank the student has the option of taking an instructor certification test, which is the only way that we will let them represent us and our school.


That is how I do it.

 

[jthomas1600]

I guess this happens differently at each school. For clarification: I don't think having the students involved in instructing is for the benefit of our instructor. I don't think it has very little to do with providing help for him. I think it is for the benefit of the students. I think teaching something is a great way to better understand it. I also think it helps build confidence and character among the students. And I think it creates a good culture in our school.

 

[StudentCarl]

Expected? Depends on the student, as some are ready sooner, some later. We have first dans who help others only when directed to teach someone something. I'm a 2nd gup who, at 48, is a veteran school teacher, athlete, coach of various sports, and competitor in TKD. I enjoy teaching and am welcomed to help by circulating in the back row of classes to help with the technique of white and yellow belts as well as forms for those below me as needed. I'm at the dojang 6 days a week, and spend as much time on my training as helping. Partly because I'm getting older and need recovery time, the time I spend teaching/helping is great for reinforcing my skills. I'm learning by watching what and how my master teaches as well as watching the people I work with as they learn. Learning to teach this way is excellent, I think. I can work on observing and adjusting the basics of just a few people rather than having to manage a whole class and the wide range of abilities in it. I learn every day, and it does affect my technique.
An interesting side effect is how much the young kids watch me when I'm in line as a student. I see them watching me like a hawk, copying what I do, so I'm motivated to make sure that everything I do is as good as I can make it. Helping with the teaching challenges me to be a better student, but I know that not all of my peers and seniors see it that way.
I think you can see which students take seriously the responsibility of helping juniors, and that's the pool to cultivate for junior instructors. First priority of a student should be their own growth, but those capable of more will show themselves over time. Don't force it; let it grow naturally.

Carl

 

[clfsean]

I know it's not the same but in CMA it's not expected, it's required.

The seniors train the juniors.

The seniors learn from the teacher.

The teacher makes corrections to the seniors & they pass the corrections down.

At least in old school CMA, maybe not so much today with commercialization. Fortunately my teacher taught in his garage, as did his teacher, so that's how I got it & that's how I pass it on as best I can.

 

[Carol]

Personally I think overall there is an unspoken obligation to pass on what you have learned, should one achieve a high enough rank to do so.

I can understand sharing teaching obligations in a the nonprofit clubs, including the gara-jos/gara-jangs. But in a for-profit school, the idea of a black belt student teaching for free or otherwise "volunteering" their time is vile, not to mention illegal (see the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938).

 

[msmitht]

No. Absolutley not.
Assist with warm up from time to time? Yes. Should they, at black belt, help with class from time to time? Yes, If they want to become a paid employee or open their own school.
Too many school owners take advantage of their students by making it manditory to teach. I call it being lazy or cheap. If you give them a discount on tuition or offer a special class weekly then ok. If they want to vaulenteer then great, as long as they are not taken advantage of.

 

[Archtkd]

And we wonder why so many dojangs are having a hard time attracting and retaining adult students. How many adults, after a stressful day at work, want to train at a dojang where they are burdened with additional duties or taught by "student-instructors"? Sorry, I refuse to be exploited. I will not pay anybody and then do the job that I'm paying them for.

Yes martial arts are "different," but our biggest competition is professional health clubs, etc. Do those clubs – which charge less than we do – force old timers to help newbies with weights and require them to assist aerobics instructors and the like? Are the owners of the dojangs that require students to teach informing them about issues like legal liability? Do the schools have liability insurance that covers the student-instructors? Is there a written contract that outlines the parameters of this student-instructor arrangement?

 

[msmitht]

And we wonder why so many dojangs are having a hard time attracting and retaining adult students. How many adults, after a stressful day at work, want to train at a dojang where they are burdened with additional duties or taught by "student-instructors"? Sorry, I refuse to be exploited. I will not pay anybody and then do the job that I'm paying them for.

Yes martial arts are "different," but our biggest competition is professional health clubs, etc. Do those clubs – which charge less than we do – force old timers to help newbies with weights and require them to assist aerobics instructors and the like? Are the owners of the dojangs that require students to teach informing them about issues like legal liability? Do the schools have liability insurance that covers the student-instructors? Is there a written contract that outlines the parameters of this student-instructor arrangement?

Exacty. I knew a guy in LA who had to close his school when a student broke his wrist while learning from an assistant instructor. Insurance would not cover the suit. He was devistated. Hear he assists at the gracie academy now. Ironic, don't you think?

 

[Archtkd]

.
I can understand sharing teaching obligations in a the nonprofit clubs, including the gara-jos/gara-jangs. But in a for-profit school, the idea of a black belt student teaching for free or otherwise "volunteering" their time is vile, not to mention illegal (see the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938).

Exactly

 

[shaunkwondo]

I believe that if the senior student is attending his or her class of which they intend to learn; they should not be expected to teach. They should be expected to learn. However, as a senior student I do think that they should feel the responsibilty to assist a fellow student if needed, to make corrections to techniques that they notice are being done incorrectly.

With that said--I think that senior students should frequently attend classes below their own level of experience and teach whenever they have the opportunity. This reinforces the basics and fundamentals that they may not often practice or adhere to. This also strengthens their leadership and teaching skills which I believe makes a more complete student. If you can soundly critique others, you should be able to effectively do the same for yourself.

Just my two cents

Shaun

 

[Bruno@MT]

No. Absolutley not.
Assist with warm up from time to time? Yes. Should they, at black belt, help with class from time to time? Yes, If they want to become a paid employee or open their own school.
Too many school owners take advantage of their students by making it manditory to teach. I call it being lazy or cheap. If you give them a discount on tuition or offer a special class weekly then ok. If they want to vaulenteer then great, as long as they are not taken advantage of.

Otoh, if the sensei is teaching for free, then expecting the students to jump in from time to time as well is not asking too much if he cannot make it to class every now and again.

 

[msmitht]

Otoh, if the sensei is teaching for free, then expecting the students to jump in from time to time as well is not asking too much if he cannot make it to class every now and again.

Otoh? If the SA BUM (sensei is japanese, this is the korean mt page) is teaching for free and the students are training for free then that is different. I would say then the student assisting should be a legit black belt who knows all poomsae and technique(and over 18). My original statement was towards for-profit schools.
I know some aikido schools that charge very little and ask black belts to teach for free. Nothing wrong with it in a non profit org.

 

[Bruno@MT]

Otoh? If the SA BUM (sensei is japanese, this is the korean mt page) is teaching for free and the students are training for free then that is different. I would say then the student assisting should be a legit black belt who knows all poomsae and technique(and over 18). My original statement was towards for-profit schools.
I know some aikido schools that charge very little and ask black belts to teach for free. Nothing wrong with it in a non profit org.

Sensei or sabum, same difference, like dojang and dojo. I couldn't really call my sensei 'sabum' could I?

Anyway, we are a non profit. For profit dojo like in the US are exceedingly rare in Belgium. There are only a handful in the entire country.
I admit that this color my perspective on the responsibilities of senior students. I've never known anything else than non profit orgnizations.

While the teacher is of course the designated teacher and the man in charge, the 'existence' and proper functioning of the dojo is a group effort with all senior students playing their part. I am one of the 2 original students left, and when the sensei is absent (which happens a couple of times per year) then it is up to us to teach class. We don't teach new things, but just keep us busy with basics. I would not dream of being paid, anymore than my sensei who doesn't get paid.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Sensei or sabum, same difference

Actually, no.

師範 Sabeom or shihan, same difference. Sabeom is usually at least fourth dan, though typically fifth.

先生 Sensei or seonsaeng would be same difference, though seonsaeng is not commonly used to address instructors so far as I have seen.

Point of trivia, I know.

Daniel