Shotokan Karate

RRouuselot

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Mekugi said:
He's lucky Jigaro Kano was around from what I hear. There is no telling how long he would have lasted in the Kanto area without him.
True. Especially since it was Kano that gave him many introductions to demonstrate karate on the mainland AFTER he arrived. Which actually contradicts what Funakoshi wrote in his book about being "invited" to come to Tokyo and teach. Funakshi was a friggin "handyman" when he first got to Japan.....if he was "invited to teach" as he calims you would think there would be no reason to work as a janitor.
Basically all that I have discovered about Funakoshi leads me to think he was a major wuss and an even bigger liar. He may have studied from some heavy weight teachers in Okinawa but he was far from the "top of his class" in the dojo. He seems more like a "Budo Geisha" rather than a master of the fighting arts. He can be said to have spread karate past the shore of Okinawa but at what price? The karate he taught has been so watered down it hardly resembles what it once was.
 

still learning

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Hello, I love Shotokan Karate,Yes it is consider a strong stlye compare to the many other arts out there. My teacher quit and we(my son and I) had to stop, the nest nearest school was a Unversal Kempo-karate school. across the street from us at the elementary school cafe, NO regrets love their stuff too.
Keep in mind the long and deep stances are for training purpose only(a few styles fight like that..Why?). Mr Funikoshi said the horse stance is for begining students. Anyone who fights in deep stance,has no moblity? Watch the best fighters of the world! Copy the best and you will become one of the best too!
Do not always believe what you see and hear. Look around,...Bruce Lee did!
Changes are a part of life! Shotokan has many hard and soft stuffs..just look.
Every martial art style is good,but only if you practice hard and always..better to learn to fight one way..then none at all. Just my thoughts and I have been wrong many times...part of life is moving in the many ways...hope we can always stay on the right path...so many roads? Aloha
 

RRouuselot

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still learning said:
..1) Keep in mind the long and deep stances are for training purpose only(a few styles fight like that..Why?).
2) Mr Funikoshi said the horse stance is for begining students. Anyone who fights in deep stance,has no moblity?
3) Every martial art style is good,but only if you practice hard and always..better to learn to fight one way..then none at all. .


1) You would be surprised at how many Shotokan and other Japanese dojo think those deep stances are actually kamae (fighting stances)
2) Funakoshi said a lot of other stupid things as well. It is my opinion that all Karate stances are just still photos of transitions of stances used in techniques and not "kamae". Because if you have time enough to get into a kamae then you had time to do something else..
3) A martial art is only as good as it is passed on. As soon as the next person passing it on doesnt have a clue it will go down hill from there.
 

BlackCatBonz

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that seems to happen a lot in martial arts, robert.
people see a picture.....and they think they have the big picture.
its like watching some people perform a kata.....and its like watching a filmstrip instead of fluid motion.

shawn
 

RRouuselot

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BlackCatBonz said:
that seems to happen a lot in martial arts, robert.
people see a picture.....and they think they have the big picture.
its like watching some people perform a kata.....and its like watching a filmstrip instead of fluid motion.

shawn

Sorry, i am not following what you said...
What seems to happen a lot in martial arts?
 

BlackCatBonz

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people will learn kata out of a book........and see only the very last movement of a particular technique......whether its a long wide stance or something transitional. as you watch them go through the kata you can see them stop at these particular places,which makes the kata appear robotic. im not trying to point fingers, but ive seen this alot in a particular art.

shawn
 

RRouuselot

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BlackCatBonz said:
1) people will learn kata out of a book........2)and see only the very last movement of a particular technique......whether its a long wide stance or something transitional. as you watch them go through the kata you can see them stop at these particular places,which makes the kata appear robotic. im not trying to point fingers, but ive seen this alot in a particular art.

shawn

1) I hope not. Learning from books and video is a poor way to study martial arts.
2) Sorry to pick on Shotokan but I have been many shotokan dojo in Japan and they are stiff and roboticmy friend has a nickname fo them...."shoto-clone"....because they all look like they came from a cookie-cutter...I have yet to seen one that teaches any practical bunkai.in fact all I have ever seen taught was point sparring techniques
 

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I have studied Shotokan for 9 years or so, and I have noticed it to be extemely fragmented. I was lucky to have an amazing Sensai, who did not stick to the traditional ways of Shotokan, and let our teachings expand beyond simply, kata. However, upon meeting Sensai Tsurouka (the apprent grand master), I notice a few things. Has anyone even heard of him?! The current grand master of Kindai Bojutsu (Brain Welcher) who has 3rd dan in Shotokan has not. So its confusing to me a little...

However, I would like to say that Shotokan karate ka can be one of the best forms of karate, if you study from an open minded teacher...

as far as fragmented would go... very much so....
 

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Ahh my post above, just wanna continue.

Many people say that Shotokan is very stiff and its overpowerd, so there is no fluidity. My study has never been stiff in any sort. I studied for about 7 years or so, and that was the first time I saw what 'real Shotokan' was; we had some other school come and visit ours, and yes - HOLY MOLY - there where
a) TERRIBLE - Many of them did not know how to spar, they stuck to the kata movements they learned, which was most embarasing for them...
b) very robotic like
c) They over emphasised powerful movements, which also lacked balance
d) they had to control, in the sense that they did not know where there target is located at

Shotokan would seem to me, like a horrible form of karate. At the same time I would say that, Shotokan is one of the best... again, its too bad there are so many McSensai... that is was cauases fragmentation
 

RRouuselot

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ShotoSan said:
I have studied Shotokan for 9 years or so, and I have noticed it to be extemely fragmented. I was lucky to have an amazing Sensai, who did not stick to the traditional ways of Shotokan, and let our teachings expand beyond simply, kata.
1) However, upon meeting Sensai Tsurouka (the apprent grand master), I notice a few things. Has anyone even heard of him?! The current grand master of Kindai Bojutsu (Brain Welcher) who has 3rd dan in Shotokan has not. So its confusing to me a little...

However, I would like to say that Shotokan karate ka can be one of the best forms of karate, if you study from an open minded teacher...

as far as fragmented would go... very much so....

1) What style is Tsuruoka Grandmaster of? I know he is not the grandmaster of Shotokan......I have never heard of hm...where is he based?
 

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To the post above - Apparently Sensai Tsurouka claims to be the founder of Shotokan. He has a son named David Tsurouka... Hes been 'founder' since I was about 7 or so, and before that Im not too sure.
 

RRouuselot

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ShotoSan said:
To the post above - Apparently Sensai Tsurouka claims to be the founder of Shotokan. He has a son named David Tsurouka... Hes been 'founder' since I was about 7 or so, and before that Im not too sure.
Uh....I can safely say he is not.
Do a google search and you can find out who the founder of shotokan is.
 

ShotoSan

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yes, google in Sensai Tsurouka and it will tell you he is... I have tried to Goggle Shotokan, and I find conflicting results... Just who is the founder? Why have I studied 9 years and dont know who it is?!
 

RRouuselot

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ShotoSan said:
yes, google in Sensai Tsurouka and it will tell you he is... I have tried to Goggle Shotokan, and I find conflicting results... Just who is the founder? Why have I studied 9 years and dont know who it is?!
Funakoshi Gichin was the founder of Shotokan.

I think this is your teacher, it says he teaches shotokan in one place and chito ryu in another:

Tsuruoka Karate Federation

The Tsuruoka Federation was founded in 1995.
Masami Tsurouka
Sensei Masami Tsuruoka is the founder and chief insructor of Tsuruoka Karate, based in Toronto, Canada. The Karate practiced is essentially traditional Shotokan..........



Dalgleish Sensei begins his martial arts training under Tsurouka Masami Sensei, head instructor of Chito-ryu Karate in Toronto, Canada. He studies with Tsurouka Sensei for a period of two years obtaining the rank of 1st kyu in Chito-ryu Karate.


Master Bob Dalgleish started his initial training in 1959 under the guidance of Master Masami Tsuruoka, 9th Dan and head instructor of the Chito Ryu style of karate do in Toronto, Ontario. Master Dalgleish studied with master Tsuruoka for a period of two years after which he journeyed to California to continue his studies under Shotokan Master Hidetaka Nishiyama. Remaining with Nishiyama for a period of two years off and on, Master Bob Dalgleish attained the level of 1st kyu brown belt in the Shotokan School of karate-do.

Having attained two separate grades of brown belt, Master Dalgleish then traveled throughout the United States and Canada, gaining knowledge and sharing with karate-ka throughout the nation. From 1959-1964 Master Dalgleish studied and trained in the following styles:
 
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marshallbd

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ShotoSan said:
yes, google in Sensai Tsurouka and it will tell you he is... I have tried to Goggle Shotokan, and I find conflicting results... Just who is the founder? Why have I studied 9 years and dont know who it is?!
Read this book...."Karate-Do: My way of Life" by Funakoshi Gichin. It will tell you all about the early days and the development of Shotokan... :asian:
 

RRouuselot

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marshallbd said:
Read this book...."Karate-Do: My way of Life" by Funakoshi Gichin. It will tell you all about the early days and the development of Shotokan... :asian:
You may not have noticed but "Shotosan" has become a banned user.
 
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marshallbd

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RRouuselot said:
You may not have noticed but "Shotosan" has become a banned user.
No, I did not notice that. I have been off the board for about 3 months now and have not kept up with things. But I am back and ready to read all the interesting post here and occasionally throw in my 2 cents. :asian:
 
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marshallbd

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By the way, I tested for 1st Dan way back in Sept. I did not pass but was given some pointers on improvement......I mainly had a hard time with the sparring. I just could not focus and was not able to effectively defend myself and got stomped pretty good. I should retest around Feb. (I should have taken the test more seriously and trained harder!) I will not make that mistake again! :asian:
 
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kishoto

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there is no true shotokan style. shotokan was the name of funakoshi dojo the japanese goverment built him. most people do not understand shotokans true nature in that it is allways developing and changing to adapt to modern times. that is why funakoshi has the tittle of father of modern karate. he was a very open minded teacher not like most of his students he felt karate had to evolve to grow. study the true history of founders not styles. thats what i did in my 38 years of training
 

RRouuselot

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kishoto said:
1) there is no true shotokan style.

2) shotokan was the name of funakoshi dojo the japanese goverment built him.

3) most people do not understand shotokans true nature in that it is allways developing and changing to adapt to modern times.

4) that is why funakoshi has the tittle of father of modern karate.

5) he was a very open minded teacher not like most of his students he felt karate had to evolve to grow.

6) study the true history of founders not styles. thats what i did in my 38 years of training

1)[font=&quot] [/font]Can you elaborate on this sort of blanket statement?

2)[font=&quot] [/font]Japanese Gov. built? According to what source?. I have always read that his students chipped in and re-built him a dojo

3)[font=&quot] [/font]I disagree. I thinkno make that I know karate changed when going to Japan from Okinawa and Funakoshi changed many things due to political & cultural pressure. The names of the kata for one..

4)[font=&quot] [/font]That can be seen as a great title or as a derogatory remark depending on how you look at it. I view it as a derogatory remark since he seems to have botched up karate pretty badly.

5)[font=&quot] [/font]How do you know this? Did you speak with him? Seems to me he made a comment about combing arts like jujutsu and karate was a dumb idea. From what I have read about him he disliked change even though he said karate must change with the times. Also, many of his students were major reformers of the style..Nakayama comes to mind.

6)[font=&quot] [/font]I have followed the life of Funakoshi from books written in both English and Japanese.I think he was a backstabbing, lying, conniving little whimp that couldnt walk it like he talked it..which was proven to many of Funakoshis students by Motobu.
 
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