short stances

[dortiz]

All I can add is that Ron was called up in front of the class and the Kukkiwon Master. He performed two forms and nailed it. If there is anybody I would be asking after the Kukkiwon, he is the person I would trust.

There is a "but", the instructor said two things.
1. Every body is different. Size of foot to leg length etc.
2. find the natural position.
These lead to some interperative area, but not much. When you see the weight distribution and strength difference it makes sense.

Lastly, it does not help to have the Kukkiown and WTF putting out competing versions of stuff and not being exactly on the same page, doh!

Dave O.

 

[Tez3]

Ok, I'll ask as I expect all the non TKD people are wondering....why the differences?
In karate you will have differences between different styles such as Long stances in Shotokan and shorter in Wado Ryu but if TKD is the same style as many say why the differences? Don't say it's politics either, there must be a proper, practical, fighting reason why the stances are different in the same style.

 

[NPTKD]

Your right, I've competed with him is is good.

 

[ATC]

Ok, I'll ask as I expect all the non TKD people are wondering....why the differences?
In karate you will have differences between different styles such as Long stances in Shotokan and shorter in Wado Ryu but if TKD is the same style as many say why the differences? Don't say it's politics either, there must be a proper, practical, fighting reason why the stances are different in the same style.

Good question Tez. KKW has always been what it is and nothing has changed from their point. They are now just trying to get everyone in sync so they are now making efforts that previously weren't there.

 

[goingd]

KKW has never changed its stances. People just have not been doing them as KKW has set them from its begining.

Then that would certainly include some of the Kukkiwon masters themselves. I have watched the poomse videos countless times and many of them simply don't extend to four or even 3.5 times the length of their own foot.

 

[goingd]

Personally I like the idea of keeping the length of the back stance and the front stance the same; and if there needs to be a difference, I would prefer the front stance only be slightly longer. Practicing deep stances is necessary for conditioning, but when practicing for the sake of genuine preparation, I prefer stances that are shorter, but still wide enough to provide proper stability.

 

[MSUTKD]

All I can add is that Ron was called up in front of the class and the Kukkiwon Master. He performed two forms and nailed it. If there is anybody I would be asking after the Kukkiwon, he is the person I would trust.

There is a "but", the instructor said two things.
1. Every body is different. Size of foot to leg length etc.
2. find the natural position.
These lead to some interperative area, but not much. When you see the weight distribution and strength difference it makes sense.

Lastly, it does not help to have the Kukkiown and WTF putting out competing versions of stuff and not being exactly on the same page, doh!

Dave O.

Thank you Dave for the kind words but Tim is equal in skill to me; in fact he beat me by 100th of a point at team trials this year.

Tim, I will not mention names but almost everything I have heard from some individuals has been sooooooo wrong I cannot even begin. That move is one of the most important transitions in Poomsae; it shows up a lot and they look for it. Move the foot straight forward.

 

[MSUTKD]

KKW has never changed its stances. People just have not been doing them as KKW has set them from its begining.

ATC is right on this. If you look at the 1975 Poomse book the stance are even shorter than described now. The Kukkiwon never changed it was Americans who did not learn correctly and pased it down or Korean instructors who moved to this country and did not have contact with the Kukkiwon as much. Many instructors just changed them to fit their own style, which I think was fine at the time.

 

[NPTKD]

Thank you Dave for the kind words but Tim is equal in skill to me; in fact he beat me by 100th of a point at team trials this year.

Tim, I will not mention names but almost everything I have heard from some individuals has been sooooooo wrong I cannot even begin. That move is one of the most important transitions in Poomsae; it shows up a lot and they look for it. Move the foot straight forward.

Thank you and I will keep it in mind.

 

[dortiz]

Next time you guys are both at an event let us know. If he is topping that, its well worth a ticket to watch. Hats off to both of you.
You are what the art is supposed to be.

Thank you,

Dave O.

 

[ACJ]

Really! That's interesting, because that would require one to double the length of their stance when transitioning from a back stance to a front stance, which is not what I see the Kukkiwon masters doing in their poomse videos. But thank you for the information.

Not double at all, if you measure the distance between the toes of both feet, rather than changing the distance you measure between for each stance. This is smarter in my opinion because you end up pivoting on you ball of foot between the stance anyway. The distance ends up being 3.5 foot lengths for front stance and 3 foot lengths for back stance. Twisting your heel out to go to front stance keeps the distance the same between your toes, and makes the correct width. And you push your front foot forward to make up the extra half foot length.

 

[MSUTKD]

99% of all twists are done on the ball of the foot NOT the heel.

 

[ACJ]

I never said they weren't done on the ball of foot.

 

[Manny]

I know the Kukkiwon officially has shorter stances these days - for the sake of speed if I'm not mistaken. This video is just an example of it:

I'm in no way criticizing the technique - I think it's very good! But I want to know how everyone feels about it? Kukkiwon people, how do you practice it?

The only thing I would love to do is the poomsae the same way the guy on the video.

Manny

 

[miguksaram]

Ok, I'll ask as I expect all the non TKD people are wondering....why the differences?
In karate you will have differences between different styles such as Long stances in Shotokan and shorter in Wado Ryu but if TKD is the same style as many say why the differences? Don't say it's politics either, there must be a proper, practical, fighting reason why the stances are different in the same style.

Funny you should bring up Shotokan and long stances. We were just discussing this last weekend at the school. While there are Shotokan schools that practice long stances, we actually do them with short stances as described in Mst. Funakoshi's book. After doing Shorei forms for so long with deep and low stances it was a bit hard to switch back, but running my TKD forms has helped the transition a lot.

 

[miguksaram]

Would this be a good example of the most recent standards in Taeguk poomsaes?

 

[bluekey88]

I would say that's pretty good. He chambers the off-hand on the inside blocks a little differently than I was taught was standard...but I also know there are some allowances for minor differences in forms and that might be one of them.

Peace,
Erik

 

[NPTKD]

I never said they weren't done on the ball of foot.

Man your Rep Powers Sucks! LOL! You need to have the power I have....

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I would say that's pretty good. He chambers the off-hand on the inside blocks a little differently than I was taught was standard...but I also know there are some allowances for minor differences in forms and that might be one of them.

Peace,
Erik

Interesting. That is how we are taught at our school. Stylistic difference I suppose. I thought that the video was quite good.

Daniel

 

[goingd]

I won't lie - I often practice parts of the forms outside even the allowances of the standard. For example in my cat stance I don't point both feet forward. It's mainly because my master is very traditional, and when I compete it's usually on an open forum.