Shock Power

[Headbald]

Sorry, a few questions
1)Which martial arts teaches you how to use shock power?
2)Is learning how to develop shock power necessary since you can hurt aggressors in other ways besides shock power?(e.g attacking pressure points,gouging eyes,chokeholds,throat attacks using fingertips or knuckles)
3)How is the shock power applied? I think(but I could be wrong) that you must use a whip-like way to hit while using a backfist with the elbow slightly bent as opposed to a straight punch.

 

[skribs123 143]

What is "shock power"? Are you talking about:

• "Shocking" your opponent with a sudden strike that disrupts their focus?
• "Shocking" your opponent through pressure points that attack major nerves, using the electrical transmission of the nerves to "shock" your opponent?
• "Shocking" your opponent through some sort of ki manipulation?
• "Shocking" your opponent with a tazer?
• Something else?

I'm not really familiar with this term in this context, and especially not sure how you're trying to use it. I need a baseline to answer your questions, since your questions are comparing against the baseline of whatever "shock power" is.

 

[Headbald]

Chow Gar Hakka Southern Praying Mantis Kung Fu School of Excellence - Techniques

Located in the heart of Romford and Ilford, Essex, the Chow Gar Hakka Praying Mantis Southern School of Excellence provides all your training needs and classes in this unique fighting style with a personal touch you won't find anywhere else.

www.chowgarprayingmantis.org.uk

"Inch Punch Power

The Chow Gar Hakka Southern Praying Mantis Kung Fu system is famous for its inch force power. This power does not only emanate from the fist but from every part of the body. Inch force power can onlybe attained by traditional mantis training methods. These can be hard and arduous, but are essential. Termed "Gen" (shock) inch force power is an explosive power that comes from within. There aremany drills and forms in the Chow Gar Hakka Southern Praying Mantis system, which are used to develop and harness this power.



Gen (shock) power

Chow Gar Hakka Southern Praying Mantis Kung Fu is noted for its Gen or shock power. The easiest way of describing and appreciating this type of power is if you inadvertently touch a hot cooker, thespeed and reflex combined with force with which you remove your hand, gives you an idea of the Gen power.

Gen (shock) power is made up of a number of elements explosive power, shock power, inch force power, soft and hard power. There are three types of Gen power: Cho Gen (rough power); Num Gen (innerpower), and Gen Gen (shock power)."



I don't really understand what is Shock Power. Like I said ,I could be wrong but I think you use a backfist with the arm slightly bent in whip-like way which causes a sort of "shocking" force when the backfist connects to the opponent.

 

[skribs123 143]

To be honest...this all sounds like a bunch of hooey.

The Chow Gar Hakka Southern Praying Mantis Kung Fu system is famous for its inch force power. This power does not only emanate from the fist but from every part of the body. Inch force power can onlybe attained by traditional mantis training methods.

It's very hard to take seriously an argument that you can only learn a certain skill by training a certain martial art, especially as specific as this. I've seen similar claims, such as boxers claiming boxing is unique because it has footwork, or the Gracies claiming jiu-jitsu is unique because it's the only martial art where you don't punch each other.

Similarly, the 1-inch-punch exists in some form in quite a few martial arts. It's not unique to this school. Their definition of "shock power" appears to be that the action is done with the power you would use if shocked (based on the line, "The easiest way of describing and appreciating this type of power is if you inadvertently touch a hot cooker, thespeed and reflex combined with force with which you remove your hand, gives you an idea of the Gen power.").

That sudden, explosive power is important for pretty much any striking art. It's cool that they have drills to focus on this, but their explanation of it as a skill unique to Chow Gar Hakka Southern Praying Mantis Kung Fu is rather ludicrous.

Gen (shock) power is made up of a number of elements explosive power, shock power, inch force power, soft and hard power. There are three types of Gen power: Cho Gen (rough power); Num Gen (innerpower), and Gen Gen (shock power)."

This is just a mouthful, and maybe there's a translation issue going on, but...

• Gen (shock) power uses "shock power" as an element of it, and then there's a further type called Gen Gen which is called Shock Power. This seems to me like if you had the three elements of water listed as hydrogen, oxygen, and water. And then there's wet water.
• This gets even worse, because earlier they define "inch force power" as coming from shock power, but now it is an element of shock power, alongside shock power as another element of shock power.
• The elements they list are contradictory, such as including hard and soft power as part of the mechanism. It feels like they're leaning too hard into a yin/yang and instead they're just throwing every buzzword out to try and sound more "legitimate", but it comes across as just bad advertising.

I'm not saying this is a good or bad school. But this seems to be a deceptively convoluted advertisement for their program.

 

[Dirty Dog1]

Any time someone tells you any variant of "you can only learn this here" it's nonsense. Any time someone tells you about magical chi balls, it's nonsense.

 

[Prince_Alarming62 5]

Magical cheese balls on the other hand..

 

[Headbald]

To be honest...this all sounds like a bunch of hooey.

It's very hard to take seriously an argument that you can only learn a certain skill by training a certain martial art, especially as specific as this. I've seen similar claims, such as boxers claiming boxing is unique because it has footwork, or the Gracies claiming jiu-jitsu is unique because it's the only martial art where you don't punch each other.

Similarly, the 1-inch-punch exists in some form in quite a few martial arts. It's not unique to this school. Their definition of "shock power" appears to be that the action is done with the power you would use if shocked (based on the line, "The easiest way of describing and appreciating this type of power is if you inadvertently touch a hot cooker, thespeed and reflex combined with force with which you remove your hand, gives you an idea of the Gen power.").

That sudden, explosive power is important for pretty much any striking art. It's cool that they have drills to focus on this, but their explanation of it as a skill unique to Chow Gar Hakka Southern Praying Mantis Kung Fu is rather ludicrous.

This is just a mouthful, and maybe there's a translation issue going on, but...

• Gen (shock) power uses "shock power" as an element of it, and then there's a further type called Gen Gen which is called Shock Power. This seems to me like if you had the three elements of water listed as hydrogen, oxygen, and water. And then there's wet water.
• This gets even worse, because earlier they define "inch force power" as coming from shock power, but now it is an element of shock power, alongside shock power as another element of shock power.
• The elements they list are contradictory, such as including hard and soft power as part of the mechanism. It feels like they're leaning too hard into a yin/yang and instead they're just throwing every buzzword out to try and sound more "legitimate", but it comes across as just bad advertising.

I'm not saying this is a good or bad school. But this seems to be a deceptively convoluted advertisement for their program.

That was a rather enlightening explanation. Thank you for pointing out all the negative points that you got while reading from the link. Minus that link,all I have left are blurry explanations of what shock power is when you do a search using the words "shock power kung fu". So for now I'll just retreat and leave my mind open for whatever different explanations of it I come across in the future while keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[skribs123 143]

That was a rather enlightening explanation. Thank you for pointing out all the negative points that you got while reading from the link. Minus that link,all I have left are blurry explanations of what shock power is when you do a search using the words "shock power kung fu". So for now I'll just retreat and leave my mind open for whatever different explanations of it I come across in the future while keeping my fingers crossed.

I would focus less on trying to find specific avenues of technique and more on trying to find the application of it.

As an analogy, don't get wrapped up in the differences between a nail and a screw. Go to a place that can build things well and see where they use nails, or screws, or if they only use one or the other. Or maybe the use something else, like glue, or very precisely engineered joints that don't need extra fastening.

I wouldn't worry too much about what shock power is or where to learn how to use it. Instead, find a place that fights the way you want to fight and train there.

 

[isshinryuronin13 13]

I wouldn't worry too much about what shock power is or where to learn how to use it.

My feelings as well. From how others here see shock power as well as my own interpretation of it, it's not something you can seek and learn independently of several other skills needed to manifest it: biomechanics, timing, sudden acceleration, coordinating relaxation and tension, etc., etc. This is not something easily achieved, requiring perhaps years to get all the prerequisites down. Probably not something you can run down and catch; rather a long hunt during which several other challenges must first be met. Don't waste your time searching for it. It will find you when you're ready.

 

[drop bear123 62]

Boxing.

That is not an uncommon reaction to a shot like that by the way.

 

[windwalker099124 154]

I don't really understand what is Shock Power. Like I said ,I could be wrong but I think you use a backfist with the arm slightly bent in whip-like way which causes a sort of "shocking" force when the backfist connects to the opponent.

Roger a kung fu bother of mine....
might be a good place to ask questions...depending on your location he might even have some students teaching there....

As to your questions...shock power is something one develops from the training...

In Cantonese, the term is 勁 —pronounced ging (not "gen"). It's the same character as jìn in Mandarin.
Not a reflex. A flinch is something that happens to you. 勁 is something you cultivate—rooted, directed by intent, issued through the whole body. Watch the video and note how the power is generated..

The hot cooker gives you the feeling of sudden release. But it misses the training, the structure, and the mind behind it.
勁 is not a startle response. It's a skill.

S-mantis specializes using what's called the The Phoenix Eye Fist (Fong Ngai Kuen or 鳳眼捶) a traditional Chinese martial arts striking technique where the knuckle of the index finger protrudes to create a single, highly concentrated point of impact

 

[Kung Fu Wang124 154]

3)How is the shock power applied?

Shocking by definition is "a violent shaking movement caused by an impact". Again, shaking by definition is "move (an object) up and down or from side to side with rapid, forceful, jerky movements".

So why do you need to shock/shake your opponent's body for? In Chinese wrestling, there is a principle called "抖(Dou) – Shaking" that is very similar to the southern praying mantis "shock power". It's used to shake your opponent's body when he starts to do something.

Can you shock/shake your opponent

- to death by your shock/shake punch? I don't think so.
- so, his attack can't generate initial power/speed? Definitely you can.

IMO, shock/shake is used after you have obtained a successful clinch.
.
In this video, he explained that shock power can be used in "joint locking".

 

[Marsha Larts]

A month or so after I'd started training with my Yang's style instructor, I asked him how/when does sparring happen in learning the fighty stuff. He said we'd get that out of the way right now and asked me show him how I'd fight someone with the boxing and wrestling I'd been training since I was a kid. I stanced up and went to step in on him and before I finished stepping or even seeing him move, I felt something brush the eyelashes on my left eyelid. He was already out of range before I realized it was his fingertip that tickled my eyelid and how close I'd been to having my eyeball popped.

He said there are 3 basic levels of pressure we use to test and learn taiji; heavy touch, normal touch, lightest of touch, and asked if I wanted to learn more about the fighty stuff. "Maybe later..."

 

[Kung Fu Wang124 154]

I stanced up and went to step in on him and before I finished stepping or even seeing him move, I felt something brush the eyelashes on my left eyelid. He said there are 3 basic levels of pressure we use to test and learn taiji; heavy touch, normal touch, lightest of touch,

Before your teacher's hand can attack your eyes, his hand has to redirect your arm guard and clear his attacking path first. There are a lot of training just for that.

Should you first learn how to redirect your opponent's arms guard first, before even worrying about heavy touch, normal touch, or lightest touch?

Which is more important?

1. Send your missile to hit your target.
2. Your missile has enough power to destroy the target object.

 

[Kung Fu Wang124 154]

This video shows how to deal with a jab-cross.

- A throws right jab at B. B uses comb hair to deflect it.
- B then changes his comb hair into a palm strike at A. A changes his right punch into a downward parry to redirect B's palm strike.
- A throws a left punch at B. B changes left palm strike into left inside out block to block B's left punch.
- B then right punch at A.

In the whole video, there is no X force, or Y force mentioned. But if you train this long enough, your force will come out by itself. Whether it will be X force, or Y force, do you even care?

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[wab25]

Before your teacher's hand can attack your eyes, his hand has to redirect your arm guard and clear his attacking path first.

Not always. There are always openings in any guard. If you can find the right angle, the right position, the right path and the right timing.... you can connect clean, without having to redirect the others guys arms at all. If you are fast and can disguise your movement well, it gets even easier.

I suspect the instructor had seen boxers and wrestlers before.... and knew where and when to be, to be able to touch his target clean. I have been on the receiving end of those shots at least a few times....

 

[isshinryuronin13 13]

Not always. There are always openings in any guard. If you can find the right angle, the right position, the right path and the right timing.... you can connect clean, without having to redirect the others guys arms at all. If you are fast

True, not always, but it's rare to land a clean shot without some supporting technique. There are always openings in any guard but they're usually transitory - this means one must freeze, check or actively deal with the guard. For example:

Kiai upon initiating the attack to freeze the guard
Intercept (check) the open guard as it's closing
Feint to freeze or send the guard in a different direction, furthering its openness
Grab/stuff/knock the guarding arm to immobilize it or move it out of the way
Overpower/punch thru the guard with the attack
(Of course, one can choose to wait for the opponent to attack and then counter)

To score without any of these or similar supporting techniques takes great timing and speed. I've done it but such opportunities don't come by often and shouldn't be relied on. One or more of the above methods are best employed to ensure a successful attack.

 

[wab25]

There are always openings in any guard but they're usually transitory

Yes they are transitory most of the time... which is why you need to be in the right place, at the right time, to use the opening.

For example:

Kiai upon initiating the attack to freeze the guard
Intercept (check) the open guard as it's closing
Feint to freeze or send the guard in a different direction, furthering its openness
Grab/stuff/knock the guarding arm to immobilize it or move it out of the way
Overpower/punch thru the guard with the attack
(Of course, one can choose to wait for the opponent to attack and then counter)

In your list, you forgot movement. There are lots of ways to use movement, in order to access an opening for a clean shot. You can make subtle movements, such that the other guy does not realize that you have changed the angle. You can make big movements, that they react to, giving you access to openings in that transition or perhaps get them to over react to a movement. If you understand their movement, there are movements you can make in relation to theirs, that expose openings.

I stanced up and went to step in on him and before I finished stepping or even seeing him move, I felt something brush the eyelashes on my left eyelid.

Sounds a lot like he recognized the movement being made when she stepped in, and moved accordingly, to access an opening in the transition... without needing to catch, redirect or clear her hands or Kiai.

 

[Kung Fu Wang124 154]

There are always openings in any guard.

Old MA saying said,

- Knowing defeat fast.
- Fast defeat slow.
- Slow defeat not-knowing.

Fast is good. But knowing is better. There is a lot of training in order to reach to the "knowing" level. How to open your opponent's guard can be MA 101.

 

[Kung Fu Wang124 154]

(Of course, one can choose to wait for the opponent to attack and then counter)

I don't like to wait for my opponent's attack. I may fall into his set up. I prefer to let my opponent to fall into my set up instead.

If my opponent attacks me, I'll jump back. I then attack him with my strategy. Since my opponent attacks me first, my attack can still be qualified as "self-defense".