Shock Power

[windwalker099137 167]

The problem is

I see no problem, only different viewpoints, expressions of self.

“Take what is offered” doesn't mean blindly accepting an invitation or falling into a trap. Listening, joining, and following are precisely what allow one to perceive what is being offered—including the trap.

 

[Kung Fu Wang137 167]

Anyway, Kung Fu Wang started making hard and fast rules

I don't make those rules. Ancient MA already made those rules for us:

- You have to knock on the door before you can enter.
- If you are better than your opponent, you enter through his front door. If your opponent is better than you, you enter through his side door.
- You try to achieve either separate your opponent's arms away from his head, or use one of his arms to jam his own other arm. You can unable your opponent's arms mobility either way.
- Fast defeat slow but knowing defeat fast.
- ...

 

[Kung Fu Wang137 167]

I see no problem, only different viewpoints, expressions of self.

“Take what is offered” doesn't mean blindly accepting an invitation or falling into a trap. Listening, joining, and following are precisely what allow one to perceive what is being offered—including the trap.

Again, if I throw a punch at you, are you going to block it?

The reason that I throw a punch at you is to bait your arm contact. If you use sticky, yield, and follow, that will be exactly what I want. But if you dodge my punch, that will make my punch useless.

Of course, if you also like to play "arm contact game (sticky, yield, and follow)" then both you and I are doing exactly the right thing. It depends on who has better skill.

Praying mantis "comb hair" is using "shock power" to bounce opponent's arm away. It's the opposite of the "sticky, yield, and follow".

 

[isshinryuronin27 26]

.Take what is offered → join it → follow its changes → let the relationship reveal what becomes available.

No problem with the first two. But once you've joined (or intercepted the attack by block/parry) you have control and you determine what's available and what the relationship is.

This is why I don't like to take my opponent's offer. I like my opponent to take my offer instead.

I like to mix them up. Sometimes one, sometimes the other depending on situation or my mood.

A groin kick followed by a face punch is always a good offer to my opponent.

Most of the time, yes, a good offer. But if skilled, the opponent may block the kick with a leg check, keeping his guard high.

 

[Kung Fu Wang137 167]

I like to mix them up. Sometimes one, sometimes the other depending on situation or my mood.

This can be one of the most interest argument in MA. Should you "wait" for opportunity, or "create" opportunity?

If you like to "wait" for opponent, you may assume that you are good on everything. When a right leg foot sweep opportunity is open for you, you will take that opportunity. What if you are not good at foot sweep? Even if you are good at left leg foot sweep, if you are not good at right leg foot sweep, that right leg foot sweep opportunity won't do you any good.

But if you "create" your opportunity, you will create exactly the left leg foot sweep opportunity that you are good at,

the opponent may block the kick with a leg check, keeping his guard high.

If my opponent raises his leg to block my groin kick, I can then land my kicking foot down and complete my entering strategy. The main reasons of my groin kick are:

- Kick my opponent's groin if possible.
- Cover distance to set up my face punch.
- Put my opponent in defense mode. If I don't kick my opponent, my opponent may kick me. It's better for me to kick my opponent than for him to kick me.

When my opponent still has high guard, I need to knock on his door and see if he will open his door for me.

 

[windwalker099137 167]

This can be one of the most interest argument in MA. Should you "wait" for opportunity, or "create" opportunity?

If you like to "wait" for opponent, you may assume that you are good on everything. When a right leg foot sweep opportunity is open for you, you will take that opportunity. What if you are not good at foot sweep? Even if you are good at left leg foot sweep, if you are not good at right leg foot sweep, that right leg foot sweep opportunity won't do you any good.

But if you "create" your opportunity, you will create exactly the left leg foot sweep opportunity that you are good at,

Another way to look at it...


Start Late, Arrive First

本是舍己從人，多誤舍近求遠。
"The basis is to give up oneself and follow the other; many mistakenly abandon what is near and seek what is far."

I don't see it as a choice between waiting for an opportunity or creating an opportunity. The relationship— empty and full within that relationship—already exists.

There is movement within stillness, and stillness within movement. To understand this is to know empty and full.

So there is no need to decide beforehand what opening I want to create or what particular technique must fit it. Take what is offered. Listen, join, and follow.

This is what I mean by "start late, arrive first." I start late because I don't need to commit first—not because I perceive late.

彼微動，己先動。
"When the other begins the slightest movement, I move first."
For me, 微動 begins before obvious physical movement. The first movement begins with intention—the intent to move. This is why “start late, arrive first” doesn't mean waiting for the physical action and then reacting faster.

There is no need to knock on the door if one is already in the house. In understanding empty and full, there really is no door.

 

[Kung Fu Wang137 167]

"start late, arrive first."

Not sure how that may apply to the following opportunity.

- You and your opponent both have right leg forward.
- Your opponent suddenly switches side in the middle of the fight (make his left side forward).
- If you are good at roundhouse kick, your left leg will roundhouse kick at his chest without thinking. If you are not good at roundhouse kick, that left leg roundhouse kick opportunity will mean nothing to you.

Even if you may "start late and arrive first", you still have to be good at roundhouse kick in order to be able to catch that opportunity.

You may assume that one should be good on everything. I believe that assumption is not realistic.

 

[Holmejr4 2]

Have you ever watched real fights on YouTube? Train for that. 2 or 3 punch per second onslaught. Think they call it a barrage.

 

[wab25]

Here is movement being used to create a opening and land a punch:

He did not have to knock the arm down, pull the arm down, separate the arms or do anything to clear a path.... He got the other guy to believe he was in front, the other guy threw his punch... he stepped offline as the punch went by and threw his own punch, untouched, over the top. He could have thrown it under the other guys arm as well.

The same type of movement can get around the rhino guard as well. Convince the rhino guy that you are in front of him and coming in straight.... as rhino guy reacts to that, step offline and enter beside the rhino guard... if the rhino guard goes low, you come over the top with a straight as in the video.... if the rhino guard goes high, you throw your right straight to the body underneath. If kicking is involved, that set up will open up a nice right roundhouse kick to the body as well. This movement also opens up left hooks to body or head as well.

The idea is to use your movement to convince the other guy you are straight in front of him and either throw his punch straight up the middle or to expect a frontal attack as you slip by.

This is only one example.... there are lots of ways to use movement to produce these types of openings. Yes they are transitory and only there for a moment.... which is why you need to be at the right place at the right time to use them.

 

[Marsha Larts]

I don't make those rules. Ancient MA already made those rules for us:

- You have to knock on the door before you can enter.
- If you are better than your opponent, you enter through his front door. If your opponent is better than you, you enter through his side door.
- You try to achieve either separate your opponent's arms away from his head, or use one of his arms to jam his own other arm. You can unable your opponent's arms mobility either way.
- Fast defeat slow but knowing defeat fast.
- ...

re: 'Ancient MA'. That would be almost exclusively bare-handed methods. My first boxing coach was as ancient as dirt so he liked to always show the dirty side of fisticuffs in keeping with the idea of protecting oneself at all times. We were shown how the bare hand is a primary target at long range, and the metacarpals in particular. The rhino guard forms a cluster of metacarpals that would be pretty hard to miss with hooks from either side. Shorten the range a little and all the ligaments above the rhino guard's wrists are prime for a beating.

Gloved hands are protected well enough that overhand feints could easily turn the rhino guard into 'upper-cut alley' via touch-and-go/ overhand-uppercut combo.

 

[Kung Fu Wang137 167]

Have you ever watched real fights on YouTube? Train for that. 2 or 3 punch per second onslaught. Think they call it a barrage.

A 6 moves combo "right jab, left cross, right hook, left hook, right uppercut, left uppercut" can always keep your opponent busy. I'll call that "machine gun" strategy.

 

[Kung Fu Wang137 167]

overhand feints could easily turn the rhino guard into 'upper-cut alley' via touch-and-go/ overhand-uppercut combo.

Both overhand and uppercut use curve line strikes. Rhino guard is maximum extension straight line guard. If you and your opponent's arms have the same length, your curve punch may not be able to reach to his head when he extended his arms at his maximum length.

Also, if your curve punch can hit on his face, his double fists will be right infront of your nose.

 

[Marsha Larts]

If you have boxing gloves or MMA gloves, you can't lock your fists together, your rhino guard will not be strong enough to deal with any powerful punch. If your opponent can separate your rhino guard, your opponent can enter your front door, your rhino guard will be meaningless.

Cross grip/gable grip with boxing gloves. Split grip/v-grip with mma gloves.

Both overhand and uppercut use curve line strikes. Rhino guard is maximum extension straight line guard. If you and your opponent's arms have the same length, your curve punch may not be able to reach to his head when he extended his arms at his maximum length.

Also, if your curve punch can hit on his face, his double fists will be right infront of your nose.

The overhand feint loads the uppercut and the uppercut is already on the way as rhino guard is raised to block the feint. You don't even have to necessarily throw the feint all the way in to make that happen.

You only have to move your head 1/2 it's width to put it offline of the opp's center/rhino guard. The body twists and rises to power the uppercut so it's already slightly offline of the opp's center.

At the very least, find a decent amateur boxer who's willing to spar gloved against the barehanded rhino guard to actually test the claims you're making here. Don't even suggest any combos - just let the boxer solve the guard on their own and see how it stacks up.

Barehanded, as what's shown in the videos, rhino guard is a bad idea once the hands and wrists become the primary targets instead of the head and face.

 

[Kung Fu Wang137 167]

find a decent amateur boxer who's willing to spar gloved against the barehanded rhino guard to actually test the claims you're making here. Don't even suggest any combos - just let the boxer solve the guard on their own and see how it stacks up.

rhino guard is a bad idea once the hands and wrists become the primary targets instead than the head and face.

I would rather my opponent to treat my arms as his primary target instead than my head.

I have test rhino guard against more than 15 boxers so far. Whenever I met a boxer in the gym, I would ask him to throw 20 punches at me. The test stops after 20 punches. IMO, if I can deal with 20 incoming punches, I should be able to find an opponent to enter his front door and obtain the head lock that I'm looking for. My rhino guard is used for entering my opponent's front door. I don't want to develop a bad habit that I only use it for defense only.

My students test the rhino guard.

 

[Marsha Larts]

I would rather my opponent to treat my arms as his primary target instead than my head.

I have test rhino guard against more than 15 boxers so far. Whenever I met a boxer in the gym, I would ask him to throw 20 punches at me. The test stops after 20 punches. IMO, if I can deal with 20 incoming punches, I should be able to find an opponent to enter his front door and obtain the head lock that I'm looking for. My rhino guard is used for entering my opponent's front door. I don't want to develop a bad habit that I only use it for defense only.

My students test the rhino guard.

Never said anything about arms - just metacarpals and ligaments. Re: the shock power that can undo rhino guard

The testing looks pretty tame and well-padded. I'll defer to your boxing expertise.

 

[wab25]

Both overhand and uppercut use curve line strikes. Rhino guard is maximum extension straight line guard. If you and your opponent's arms have the same length, your curve punch may not be able to reach to his head when he extended his arms at his maximum length.

Also, if your curve punch can hit on his face, his double fists will be right infront of your nose.

Off line. Move off line.... then my arms will reach as your rhino horn is behind me.

In the video you shared here... if the second punch thrown was an upper cut, it would have landed every time. Or the second punch could have been a straight to the body. If you add kicks, take your pick.... throw that initial punch, the rhino moves up, any kick you want can follow and will land, under the rhino.

Since you like grappling.... Start with a lead left punch, high to the head.... as the other guys rhino moves up and over to block, keeping its full extension (as shown in the video) then step in turning to throw a right side seoi nage. Raising the rhino and keeping it extended invites a nice seoi nage coming in underneath. (yes, traditional seoi nage grabs one arm.... here, grab both, don't worry about separating... if you wanted to be mean, turn it into an arm bar / break on the inside arm...)

I would rather my opponent to treat my arms as his primary target instead than my head.

I have test rhino guard against more than 15 boxers so far. Whenever I met a boxer in the gym, I would ask him to throw 20 punches at me. The test stops after 20 punches. IMO, if I can deal with 20 incoming punches, I should be able to find an opponent to enter his front door and obtain the head lock that I'm looking for. My rhino guard is used for entering my opponent's front door. I don't want to develop a bad habit that I only use it for defense only.

My students test the rhino guard.

Neither guy here moved off line or used any angle at all. They only move forward and backwards. I want my center line to cross your center at an angle to your center line... not parallel, and definitely not directly into your center line.

 

[windwalker099137 167]

Never said anything about arms - just metacarpals and ligaments. Re: the shock power that can undo rhino guard

When @Kung Fu Wang first demoed his rhino guard, my thoughts were exactly the same. As mentioned, the guard itself becomes the target.

When people told me they boxed, I used to test cutting hand and burning palm—specialty hands from Tibetan White Crane—against their guards or as they punched.

Kung Fu Wang mentions that he got the idea for the rhino guard from Wu Song Breaks Manacles. There is an interesting difference, though: Wu Song Breaks Manacles starts from a constraint imposed upon you; the rhino guard voluntarily creates that constraint as a strategy for bridging the gap and entering into grappling.

An interesting strategy.


Something that some have noted : what happens when the guard itself becomes the target?
In boxing, many of those options aren't allowed.

One of my teachers, Mike Staples, gives an account of something similar that happened during a demonstration with his teacher:

"
The “Burning Hand,” was Mr. Long’s signature technique, and he was quite open about teaching it those who wanted to learn it. It was an “internal” specialty, different from “external” pushing power. More a slap than a hit, Mr. Long would sometimes place a phone book on your shoulder and give it one of those “slaps.”

Mr. Long deflected my punch with a slap…just a little too hard. And as a result, my arm locked out in front of me, as if frozen, while a searing pain moved through the flexor muscle compartment of my forearm."

Never trained it formally, informally I did , and managed to acquire the skill...long ago..
something I no longer practice.

 

[Kung Fu Wang137 167]

the guard itself becomes the target.

Let's look at this from a different angle.

- You throw 20 punches at me. Each one of your punches require traveling 2 feet distance.
- I use rhino guard to deflect your 20 punches. Each deflect of my rhino guard only need to move 2 inch.

At the end of 20 punches, you are spending 12 times more energy than I do.

If we look at this "Mandarin Duck Formation(鴛鴦陣)" strategy video, the center person who holds the long "wolf brush(狼筅)" doesn't have to move much. The attacker has to use a lot of energy to deal with that long "wolf brush(狼筅)".

 

[Buka45 2]

I don't make those rules. Ancient MA already made those rules for us:

- You have to knock on the door before you can enter.
- If you are better than your opponent, you enter through his front door. If your opponent is better than you, you enter through his side door.
- You try to achieve either separate your opponent's arms away from his head, or use one of his arms to jam his own other arm. You can unable your opponent's arms mobility either way.
- Fast defeat slow but knowing defeat fast.
- ...

F rules.