Setup AR-15 for Home Defense

[kristian roger]

The custom AR-15 has to be the ultimate answer to safeguard your home. Several people tend to think that the rifle is better than the pistol. But no, just because the sizes differ, it doesn’t mean that the gun is good. The handgun is a much good option for home defense. Since it’s compact, you’ll never need to get confused. Get an AR-15 pistol, and you shall get a better outcome.

 

[CB Jones]

I Prefer the rifle over the pistol.

 

[Drobison491]

I'm actually a fan of the shot gun for 2 main reasons.

First, it requires less precision to be accurate. So if i had to use it in the middle of the night and still groggy it can still be effective. Additionally, If I wasn't home, the wife can lock herself in the room, point it at the door and just wait. With the adrenaline dump that would take place better to be able to aim at a group target than a point target.

Second, if loaded right you don't risk wall penetration. meaning your stray rounds won't hit someone else in the next room or the next house.


bonus:
Third. the sound a 12 gauge makes when chambering around is universally understood as GTFOH (I say that tongue in cheek the round should already be in the chmaber)

 

[CB Jones]

I'm actually a fan of the shot gun for 2 main reasons.

First, it requires less precision to be accurate. So if i had to use it in the middle of the night and still groggy it can still be effective. Additionally, If I wasn't home, the wife can lock herself in the room, point it at the door and just wait. With the adrenaline dump that would take place better to be able to aim at a group target than a point target.

Second, if loaded right you don't risk wall penetration. meaning your stray rounds won't hit someone else in the next room or the next house.


bonus:
Third. the sound a 12 gauge makes when chambering around is universally understood as GTFOH (I say that tongue in cheek the round should already be in the chmaber)

I like the shotgun too. Stopping power is unrivaled.

I have an 870 with a 14 inch barrel I keep loaded with a slug and then followed by tactical buckshot that maintains a tight pattern. It is a show stopper.

 

[Drobison491]

I'm a big fan of the Keltec KSG Just don't have a spare 800 to drop on it at the moment

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I'm a big fan of the RPG-7. The best home defense weapon.

 

[Drobison491]

I'm a big fan of the RPG-7. The best home defense weapon.

Guess they can't steal your stuff if there is nothing left. Pretty effective...from a certain point of view

 

[Buka]

Welcome to Martial Talk, Christian.

 

[skribs]

Definitely an AR-15, in my opinion, for a long list of reasons.

• This idea of the pistol being easier because it's smaller is ludicrous. The long gun is superior because of the extra contact points. This gives better stability, which leads to more accuracy and less likelihood of stray shots. The shotgun isn't much different from the AR in this case. At expected home defense range, you will likely get a group of maybe 1-2 inches from the shotgun. Most misses with a rifle with miss with a shotgun as well. In fact, if a shotgun did have a spray like in the video games, then it probably would be more dangerous to your neighbors.
• Rifles use high velocity to inflict damage. Pistols and shotguns essentially just poke holes in the target. Shotguns just poke many more holes for one pull of the trigger. Rifles tend to rip through the target. This makes it more likely to put the bad guy down faster.
• Compared with a high-powered rifle (the AR-15 is actually a very weak rifle), the AR-15 has lighter recoil. This makes follow-up shots more accurate. If the first shot doesn't put the bad guy down, or if there are multiple bad guys, this is important. It also can carry more ammunition, which makes it ideal for follow-ups as well. You never know how many rounds you'll need to stop a threat; having more is usually better.
• Overpenetration through walls is always brought up. The interesting thing about rifles is that, because they rely on velocity to do most of their damage, they tend to cause less damage when overpenetrating through walls than something like a shotgun or a handgun. That is, assuming the load you're using is capable of self-defense. Birdshot won't go through a wall, but it also might not even get through an attacker's clothes. Buckshot or handgun rounds will barely notice the wall. A light rifle round, like the .223, will slow down upon hitting the wall, and lose a lot of that dangerous momentum. It's still dangerous for overpentration, but not as much as people would have you believe.
• The AR-15 is very ergonomically designed. While having multiple points of contact is good, sometimes you need a free hand. This makes something with a pistol grip (like an AR-15 or an AK) a superior choice to something with a "straight stock". If you need to open doors, grab your kids to pull them to safety, etc., then the pistol grip is amazing.

With that said, here are my requirements for a home defense weapon:

• As large a magazine capacity as you can have, without it negatively affecting handling or reliability. Preferably a removable magazine so you can quickly reload.
• As short of a barrel as legally possible, for maneuverability in tight spots.
• A weapon light, so that you can identify the target.
• A red dot sight, because those are amazing for close-quarters. Specifically, a red dot sight that's going to last for a long time while on. I like Aimpoint or a tritium reflex sight for this. Aimpoint is rugged and their batteries last for years (while running). If you can't afford a reliable red dot, then ghost ring ironsights will do. Backup ironsights are a good idea in case the red dot goes out.
• Pistol grip.
• Ergonomics (the gun should be comfortable to hold and use)
• Sling, so you can drop the gun if needed, but still maintain control of it.

If suppressors were not NFA items, I'd say they would be a great addition as well. You're not likely to have hearing protection in when someone breaks in.

 

[CB Jones]

Rifles use high velocity to inflict damage. Pistols and shotguns essentially just poke holes in the target. Shotguns just poke many more holes for one pull of the trigger. Rifles tend to rip through the target. This makes it more likely to put the bad guy down faster.

Disagree....inside 15 yards shotguns are devastating and stop threats almost immediately....especially loaded with slugs.

 

[skribs]

Disagree....inside 15 yards shotguns are devastating and stop threats almost immediately....especially loaded with slugs.

And those slugs tend to have a lot of momentum through walls, higher recoil and lower capacity than a rifle.

 

[drop bear]

Definitely an AR-15, in my opinion, for a long list of reasons.

• This idea of the pistol being easier because it's smaller is ludicrous. The long gun is superior because of the extra contact points. This gives better stability, which leads to more accuracy and less likelihood of stray shots. The shotgun isn't much different from the AR in this case. At expected home defense range, you will likely get a group of maybe 1-2 inches from the shotgun. Most misses with a rifle with miss with a shotgun as well. In fact, if a shotgun did have a spray like in the video games, then it probably would be more dangerous to your neighbors.
• Rifles use high velocity to inflict damage. Pistols and shotguns essentially just poke holes in the target. Shotguns just poke many more holes for one pull of the trigger. Rifles tend to rip through the target. This makes it more likely to put the bad guy down faster.
• Compared with a high-powered rifle (the AR-15 is actually a very weak rifle), the AR-15 has lighter recoil. This makes follow-up shots more accurate. If the first shot doesn't put the bad guy down, or if there are multiple bad guys, this is important. It also can carry more ammunition, which makes it ideal for follow-ups as well. You never know how many rounds you'll need to stop a threat; having more is usually better.
• Overpenetration through walls is always brought up. The interesting thing about rifles is that, because they rely on velocity to do most of their damage, they tend to cause less damage when overpenetrating through walls than something like a shotgun or a handgun. That is, assuming the load you're using is capable of self-defense. Birdshot won't go through a wall, but it also might not even get through an attacker's clothes. Buckshot or handgun rounds will barely notice the wall. A light rifle round, like the .223, will slow down upon hitting the wall, and lose a lot of that dangerous momentum. It's still dangerous for overpentration, but not as much as people would have you believe.
• The AR-15 is very ergonomically designed. While having multiple points of contact is good, sometimes you need a free hand. This makes something with a pistol grip (like an AR-15 or an AK) a superior choice to something with a "straight stock". If you need to open doors, grab your kids to pull them to safety, etc., then the pistol grip is amazing.

With that said, here are my requirements for a home defense weapon:

• As large a magazine capacity as you can have, without it negatively affecting handling or reliability. Preferably a removable magazine so you can quickly reload.
• As short of a barrel as legally possible, for maneuverability in tight spots.
• A weapon light, so that you can identify the target.
• A red dot sight, because those are amazing for close-quarters. Specifically, a red dot sight that's going to last for a long time while on. I like Aimpoint or a tritium reflex sight for this. Aimpoint is rugged and their batteries last for years (while running). If you can't afford a reliable red dot, then ghost ring ironsights will do. Backup ironsights are a good idea in case the red dot goes out.
• Pistol grip.
• Ergonomics (the gun should be comfortable to hold and use)
• Sling, so you can drop the gun if needed, but still maintain control of it.

If suppressors were not NFA items, I'd say they would be a great addition as well. You're not likely to have hearing protection in when someone breaks in.

Doesn't the laser give you away?

 

[CB Jones]

And those slugs tend to have a lot of momentum through walls, higher recoil and lower capacity than a rifle.

Agreed...I was only disagreeing with the part I qouted. In reference to its ability to stop a threat. 12 gauge slug or 00 buckshot is extremely effective. The AR doesn't become more effective until you get out to around 25 yards.

 

[lklawson]

I'm sorry, but I disagree on all points.

I'm actually a fan of the shot gun for 2 main reasons.

First, it requires less precision to be accurate.

No. Even using bird shot with no choke (far from ideal for defensive work), at typical home defense distances, your spread is going to be around 4" or so. You MUST aim to hit your target.

See: Mad Gun Science: Is Birdshot Effective for Home Defense? | OutdoorHub

Additionally, If I wasn't home, the wife can lock herself in the room, point it at the door and just wait.

She can, and should, do that with anything, rifle, handgun, shotgun, whatever. And so should you. Don't go hunting someone. Unless you have to go get kids, bar your door, call the cops, yell out into the dark that you've called the cops, and hunker down. Stay safe. If you go hunting, there is a non-zero chance that you will be injured, killed, or even potentially end up on the wrong side of the law and spend the rest of your life in prison. No, I'm not joking.

With the adrenaline dump that would take place better to be able to aim at a group target than a point target.

With a shotgun?!? Nope. Unless you're running a 410, the Shotgun is going to recoil more, be harder to come back for follow up shots, has less ammo capacity than an AR (or many handguns these days), and you still have to aim effectively (remember that 4" spread?).

Second, if loaded right you don't risk wall penetration. meaning your stray rounds won't hit someone else in the next room or the next house.

Again, no. In all the actual tests I've seen, buckshot penetrates more walls than .223 from a carbine. The buckshot has more mass/inertia and will tend to keep going. The .223 destabilizes quickly after impact with drywall, tumbles, and eventually disintegrates. That said, in most cases, regardless of what you're shooting, it's going through a number of walls. It doesn't matter if it's buckshot, hollow points, or solid points. If it's from an actual gun, drywall ain't stopping it quickly.

Here's an example:

bonus:
Third. the sound a 12 gauge makes when chambering around is universally understood as GTFOH (I say that tongue in cheek the round should already be in the chmaber)

I agree that this is a tongue in cheek comment. Not only are you right that you should already have one racked, but the evidence seems to indicate that the sound of raking one into the chamber doesn't actually scare bad guys away.

In fact, more and more, even getting shot or seeing their buddies get shot (multiples are more common now) doesn't seem to discourage them. While it might, the growing evidence shows that, now anyway, there's a good chance you're going to have to deal with all of them once they commit to a Home Invasion.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

Definitely an AR-15, in my opinion, for a long list of reasons.

• This idea of the pistol being easier because it's smaller is ludicrous. The long gun is superior because of the extra contact points. This gives better stability, which leads to more accuracy and less likelihood of stray shots. The shotgun isn't much different from the AR in this case. At expected home defense range, you will likely get a group of maybe 1-2 inches from the shotgun. Most misses with a rifle with miss with a shotgun as well. In fact, if a shotgun did have a spray like in the video games, then it probably would be more dangerous to your neighbors.
• Rifles use high velocity to inflict damage. Pistols and shotguns essentially just poke holes in the target. Shotguns just poke many more holes for one pull of the trigger. Rifles tend to rip through the target. This makes it more likely to put the bad guy down faster.
• Compared with a high-powered rifle (the AR-15 is actually a very weak rifle), the AR-15 has lighter recoil. This makes follow-up shots more accurate. If the first shot doesn't put the bad guy down, or if there are multiple bad guys, this is important. It also can carry more ammunition, which makes it ideal for follow-ups as well. You never know how many rounds you'll need to stop a threat; having more is usually better.
• Overpenetration through walls is always brought up. The interesting thing about rifles is that, because they rely on velocity to do most of their damage, they tend to cause less damage when overpenetrating through walls than something like a shotgun or a handgun. That is, assuming the load you're using is capable of self-defense. Birdshot won't go through a wall, but it also might not even get through an attacker's clothes. Buckshot or handgun rounds will barely notice the wall. A light rifle round, like the .223, will slow down upon hitting the wall, and lose a lot of that dangerous momentum. It's still dangerous for overpentration, but not as much as people would have you believe.
• The AR-15 is very ergonomically designed. While having multiple points of contact is good, sometimes you need a free hand. This makes something with a pistol grip (like an AR-15 or an AK) a superior choice to something with a "straight stock". If you need to open doors, grab your kids to pull them to safety, etc., then the pistol grip is amazing.

With that said, here are my requirements for a home defense weapon:

• As large a magazine capacity as you can have, without it negatively affecting handling or reliability. Preferably a removable magazine so you can quickly reload.
• As short of a barrel as legally possible, for maneuverability in tight spots.
• A weapon light, so that you can identify the target.
• A red dot sight, because those are amazing for close-quarters. Specifically, a red dot sight that's going to last for a long time while on. I like Aimpoint or a tritium reflex sight for this. Aimpoint is rugged and their batteries last for years (while running). If you can't afford a reliable red dot, then ghost ring ironsights will do. Backup ironsights are a good idea in case the red dot goes out.
• Pistol grip.
• Ergonomics (the gun should be comfortable to hold and use)
• Sling, so you can drop the gun if needed, but still maintain control of it.

If suppressors were not NFA items, I'd say they would be a great addition as well. You're not likely to have hearing protection in when someone breaks in.

ALL OF THIS!

I wish I could hit, "Like," "Agree," "Informative," and "Useful" all at once.

I frequently tell people exactly the same things and they still say, "shotgun." <sigh>

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[skribs]

I'm sorry, but I disagree on all points.

No. Even using bird shot with no choke (far from ideal for defensive work), at typical home defense distances, your spread is going to be around 4" or so. You MUST aim to hit your target.

See: Mad Gun Science: Is Birdshot Effective for Home Defense? | OutdoorHub

She can, and should, do that with anything, rifle, handgun, shotgun, whatever. And so should you. Don't go hunting someone. Unless you have to go get kids, bar your door, call the cops, yell out into the dark that you've called the cops, and hunker down. Stay safe. If you go hunting, there is a non-zero chance that you will be injured, killed, or even potentially end up on the wrong side of the law and spend the rest of your life in prison. No, I'm not joking.

With a shotgun?!? Nope. Unless you're running a 410, the Shotgun is going to recoil more, be harder to come back for follow up shots, has less ammo capacity than an AR (or many handguns these days), and you still have to aim effectively (remember that 4" spread?).

Again, no. In all the actual tests I've seen, buckshot penetrates more walls than .223 from a carbine. The buckshot has more mass/inertia and will tend to keep going. The .223 destabilizes quickly after impact with drywall, tumbles, and eventually disintegrates. That said, in most cases, regardless of what you're shooting, it's going through a number of walls. It doesn't matter if it's buckshot, hollow points, or solid points. If it's from an actual gun, drywall ain't stopping it quickly.

Here's an example:

I agree that this is a tongue in cheek comment. Not only are you right that you should already have one racked, but the evidence seems to indicate that the sound of raking one into the chamber doesn't actually scare bad guys away.

In fact, more and more, even getting shot or seeing their buddies get shot (multiples are more common now) doesn't seem to discourage them. While it might, the growing evidence shows that, now anyway, there's a good chance you're going to have to deal with all of them once they commit to a Home Invasion.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

I do keep my long guns woth the chamber empty. I find that loading the chamber is an easier process to remember than where the safety is on each long gun (especially since a few of mine are designed for right handed folk and not well designed for me).

 

[lklawson]

Disagree....inside 15 yards shotguns are devastating and stop threats almost immediately....especially loaded with slugs.

But so does the .223, and you pay a lower price in terms of recoil, follow-ups, ammo capacity, etc.

Recently, the entire world saw a single .223 take the bicep off of an attacker with a handgun. I read that surgeons managed to save the arm but I have my doubts how useful it will be going forward.

And that's from a "Poodle Shooter." Imagine what a real rifle round, like a 30-06, would have done.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

Doesn't the laser give you away?

He didn't mention a laser. So, no.

But to answer your question: no, a laser doesn't give away your location during a self defense/home defense encounter. The bad guys can see you anyway, really. You're only 15-30 feet away. And you've got a gun. They're looking for you anyhow.

And even then, a laser usually doesn't draw a line to you. At most there's a single red dot that someone at the other end might be able to see (but usually can't, because it's a coherent beam). Take a laser pointer toy out into your darkened house some time and have your SO or friend see if the origin is readily apparent and if they'd notice it if someone were shooting at them.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Drobison491]

Just a snippet from an article I read. I included the link for the full article as well.


Does my personal-defense shootout prove anything? Actually, it does not. A statistician would tell you there is insufficient data. All we really have here is a suggestion that the conclusions are meaningful. Murphy was aware of this and wanted to see what he could do with slugs in his own 12-gauge shotgun, a Mossberg auto-loader with a modern red-dot sight. I asked Morgan to shoot against him using his own AR, a Colt M4 with another red-dot sight. They fired the 3-second drill at 50 yards. Murphy's shotgun delivered three hits for 4,266 foot-pounds of energy, but Morgan was able to speed up thanks to his red dot, getting seven hits for 8,218 foot-pounds. As it was with the uncustomized guns, the AR-15 got more power on target. This will not come as a big surprise to any experienced field shooter. The shotgun would seem to have lost, but because inferior sights caused a severe limitation on getting hits.

I would not argue for dumping all 12-gauge shotguns. It is relatively easy to put a set of rugged ghost rings on the Remington and it does wonders for the gun's accuracy—even at close range. Also, I remain convinced a hit with a shotgun slug or a charge of buckshot is a better hit than one from a .223 Rem. AR-15 bullet—it tends to traumatize more tissue. At 100 yards, the delivered energy from a 1-ounce slug is about 970 foot-pounds. The .224-inch-diameter bullet is more than 1,000—not a lot of difference. If anything comes out of this experiment, it is a strong recommendation to to put better sights on shotguns and investigate the wider use of slugs.

12-Gauge Shotgun vs. AR-15 for Personal Defense.


Now its talking personal defense not necessarily home defense, so there is a difference. personally I'd choose the my M4/AR15 if I was kicking in doors and room clearing (all that COD cool guy stuff) But in the scenario where I am asleep in bed and I hear the front door get kicked in I'll take a shot gun any day. especially if it has the pistol grip, red dot, and light.

 

[lklawson]

Just a snippet from an article I read. I included the link for the full article as well.


Does my personal-defense shootout prove anything? Actually, it does not. A statistician would tell you there is insufficient data. All we really have here is a suggestion that the conclusions are meaningful. Murphy was aware of this and wanted to see what he could do with slugs in his own 12-gauge shotgun, a Mossberg auto-loader with a modern red-dot sight. I asked Morgan to shoot against him using his own AR, a Colt M4 with another red-dot sight. They fired the 3-second drill at 50 yards. Murphy's shotgun delivered three hits for 4,266 foot-pounds of energy, but Morgan was able to speed up thanks to his red dot, getting seven hits for 8,218 foot-pounds. As it was with the uncustomized guns, the AR-15 got more power on target. This will not come as a big surprise to any experienced field shooter. The shotgun would seem to have lost, but because inferior sights caused a severe limitation on getting hits.

I would not argue for dumping all 12-gauge shotguns. It is relatively easy to put a set of rugged ghost rings on the Remington and it does wonders for the gun's accuracy—even at close range. Also, I remain convinced a hit with a shotgun slug or a charge of buckshot is a better hit than one from a .223 Rem. AR-15 bullet—it tends to traumatize more tissue. At 100 yards, the delivered energy from a 1-ounce slug is about 970 foot-pounds. The .224-inch-diameter bullet is more than 1,000—not a lot of difference. If anything comes out of this experiment, it is a strong recommendation to to put better sights on shotguns and investigate the wider use of slugs.

12-Gauge Shotgun vs. AR-15 for Personal Defense.


Now its talking personal defense not necessarily home defense, so there is a difference. personally I'd choose the my M4/AR15 if I was kicking in doors and room clearing (all that COD cool guy stuff) But in the scenario where I am asleep in bed and I hear the front door get kicked in I'll take a shot gun any day. especially if it has the pistol grip, red dot, and light.

Let me know when you have a home defense/self defense engagement at 100 yards.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk