Serious Dog Defense Question

Thesemindz

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I mean this in all seriousness.

There have been many threads on MT about how to defend one's self against dogs, and in my chosen profession, Home Meal Replacement Specialist, this is something I find very important, but these threads almost always devolve into pointing out that there is no real defense against a highly trained, rabid, super-killer attack dog. My question is, what do I do if I'm attacked by a small dog? Say, one of the toy breeds. Like a toy poodle or shitzu? Or maybe a chihuahua? How about a chihuahua puppy? Yah, a viscious, highly trained, rabid, super-killer chihuahua puppy. With knives in his teeth. Seriously now. I knew a kid growing up who defended himself against a frightening chihuahua attack by punting the dog over the roof of his house to his brother in the back yard. That was effective, but would that be considered reasonable force in case of a jury trial? How do you determine whether or not the dog had lethal intent? If he attacks me with his claws, are those weapons? Can I respond with a rolled up newspaper, or would that be considered escalation? This is not a joke. What if he was drooling, but I couldn't tell if it was because he had rabies or was drunk? What if he's under the influence of PCP or having a Methanphetemine induced psychotic episode? Are there any lawyers here who have been involved in such a case or have any case histories they could site? I'm really worried here and I take this issue very seriously. Sometimes I see these little dogs eyeing me from old ladies purses. Would pre-emptive self defense be warranted if the dog growled at me, or in some way threatened my well being? What if he just seemed fussy? If it is hard to strike a large attack dog in such a way as to do significant damage, I can only assume that it would be exponentially more difficult to defend one's self against a dog one tenth the size. Should I try to offer it my arm if it jumps at my throat? If I'm confronted with a feral toy poodle, should I stand up tall, wave my arms, and scream gibberish at it to try to scare it away? I'm afraid if I run, the poodle will chase me down and visciously assault me from behind because of the chase instinct. Does anyone have any real life experience defending against puppies? What worked for you?

Seriously.

-Rob
 

Ceicei

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As a kid, I have been attacked by a small gray chihuahua, meanest dog on the block! I was just walking by when he barrelled out like a streaking missle and attacked before I realized he was there. His teeth were razor-sharp and like needles. OOOoooowwwww!

After being bitten, I just kicked him really hard and ran as fast as I could before he realized what happened and got up to chase. By then, I got out of his territory far enough that he stopped chasing.

As with any dog, bites can be hazardous. A kick, a rolled up newspapers, whatever. If the dog was truly in attack mode, you do have the right to defend yourself with whatever you have available for your defense.

With a dog that is much smaller, I wouldn't offer my arm. Jumping up and screaming may either intimidate or anger the dog. Using a commanding voice and saying "Stop" (rather than screaming) while facing the dog usually do make them pause in their tracks, but it still doesn't remove the threat. The dogs may just stop long enough to decide the next move. This tactic may not work if the dog is a trained attacker.

Running? You're right, the dogs do have a chase instinct. Most, however, will only run until the border of their territory. The question is how big is their territory? The dogs generally run faster than humans, so you will want to have a diversion or something to distract them if you decide to try running.

Again, you can use whatever you need to use in defense against an attacking dog, whether it's a tree branch, your feet, rolled up newspaper, a walking stick. A dog that is truly attacking you, you won't be faulted under the law for using defense.

- Ceicei
 

loki09789

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My suggestion would be to talk to some dog experts who can explain the nature of dogs in general and by breed. They can kind of be like guns: It might not look like a big old mean 'assault rifle', but it will still hurt when you get hit by it.

When I was young, I trapped and some things that I was taught to use if I met up with Wild Dogs (feral), which can be more unpredictable than wolves or coyotes from what I understand, was to point a stick at the face. There is something about this behavior that triggers some primitive defensiveness on the dogs part as a way to avoid diving on deer/elk/moose antlers. I have done this and it does keep the dog at a distance for a while, giving you time to back away. Just watch for other dogs sneeking up your rear door. If the dog attacks, use thrusting motions to stab the dog away. This hurts more and is more likely to drive the dog back. If the dog bites down on the stick, GREAT, kick him in the throat. Sweeping motions will just thump into the body as he throws himself at you... more packed musclular bodies:)
If you don't happen to have a stick, point your finger at the dog. If the dog jumps or attacks try smacking the nose/top of the jaw/head DOWN and get on the head, lay on it and don't let it up until it has stopped fighting. He will get tired eventually. If you loose the dog, get up fast facing the dog keeping your hands up between the dog and your face/throat (these are instinctual targets for biting attacks, think nature documetaries). Plus, keeping the dog in this position is a demonstration of dominance. Push off of the dog, using your hands on his head to thrust yourself up and away. Back away slowly w/o turning away.

If you get bit, grab the head and push hard against the thing being bit. Ex. If the dog has your forearm, latch onto the back of the head and push it towards the forearm while you push the forearm into the dogs mouth. The shaking motion that is natural for dog bites will do TONS of damage and cause massive bleading/pain. Controlling the head will keep the shaking from happening to a degree. Plus by pushing into the bite, you can force the limb deeper into the dogs throat - past the teeth and possibly activate the gag reflex. If all else fails, beat the hell out of his eyes, nose, throat, groin.... same basic targets as on a person.

If you get caught down, DO NOT stay on your back, or curl up into a fetal/turtle position hoping that the dog will back off. They won't if they are already being agressive. Take it to the dog. Scream, yell, growl... anything that the dog will percieve as more agressive, more powerful than they are. They will get winded, and may back off if you demonstrate a more agressive posture. Try to constantly be moving away from the dog, as long as it doens't put you in further danger.

Paul M.
 

loki09789

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Of course there is the obvious:

Train with OC and make sure you drill and drill getting it out being ready to use it.... makes sense when it was originally designed for park rangers and postmen before it was marketed for LEO/Self defense.

DUH

Paul M
 

arnisador

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Yell "No" at it. This worked for me earlier today while walking in the woods. As my brother-in-law, an Animal Control Officer, said: Someone, sometime in its life has taught that dog the word "No".

The pepper spray idea is a good one too.
 

Tgace

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just went on a "welfare check" at work....old lady with mail piling up. I had to go through a basement window to get in. I found the old lady. She died in a closed kitchen...locked in with her dog. Must have been a good 2-3 weeks and poor old fido got hungry....need I paint a picture? :xtrmshock
 

Cryozombie

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I have (unfortunaltly) inhereted two Chihuhuhuhuhuhs. (I cant even spell Taco bell dog) The younger of the two hates me with a passion, and it is always biting and attacking me. I cannot use force on it for obvious reasons, but its teeh HURT.

I have found that yelling at them in a DEEP STERN voice, (Kinda Drill Instructorish barks) backs them up when I am faced off with em. Ive tried it on other people's "pets" and it seems to work pretty well.
 
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Dijos

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I was attacked by a dog recently. Let me give you the details. I went to FL Boxer rescue to choose a new dog, as my old dog died, and my younger boxer was really lonely. this dog, my dog, my GF and I all get into a run (a caged section of yard) , and I throw a ball down the run, thinking that my dog will fetch it, and that the dog I was "Interviewing" would play. this dog GOES AFTER me. Now, if you don't know boxers, they will jump up to restrain you with their legs, and bite. ( I believe that they are used as police dogs for that reason). A 60 pound dog attacking you is not fun. She bit through my jacket, and cornered me. Now, as silly as this sounds, my training kicked in, and I proceeded to "pass" the attack while keeping my hands out of mouth, gaining me some room to move. I yelled in an authoritative voice "STOP!", and she backed down a little, while I backed towards the gate of the run quickly. It occured to me that:if I had been afraid of dogs, this would have scarred me for life, and that keeping calm was my best defense. I am glad to come out with scratches, though-it could have been much worse. I picked a different dog, though..--Joe
 

MA-Caver

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arnisador said:
Yell "No" at it. This worked for me earlier today while walking in the woods. As my brother-in-law, an Animal Control Officer, said: Someone, sometime in its life has taught that dog the word "No".

The pepper spray idea is a good one too.

Ya, I've found that yelling seriously (like you owned the dog) "NO!" sometimes puts a quick stop to an aggressive maneuver... but not always. But that should be your first line of defense. If anything happens that warrants court action... someone might've heard you yelling out "NO!" and you can use that to your defense.
I love dogs but lately it seems that dogs just don't like me. Dunno why. Am I putting out some weird scented phermones or something? Hmmm. :uhyeah:
 

OULobo

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This is going to sound a little arrogant and nieve(sp), but I refuse to be intimidated or threatened by anything on the level of a dog. I won't tolerate an undiciplined animal. Mabey that attitude is why I haven't had much trouble with dogs. From my experience it is all about letting them know you are alpha.

I was attacked once by a friend's mutt when I approached his door to see if he was home. The SOB came at me and I knew this was going to get ugly. I gave it my arm to chew on and grabbed it's collar with my free hand. I just shifted my wieght and bounced it as hard as I could off the porch wall. I had a few stitches, but it had a punctured lung from it's broken ribs. The human body is a wonderfully powerfull and efficient machine and well suited even on a physical level against most animals.
 

arnisador

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There's a story that one of the Gracies choked out a pitbull.

I wouldn't suggest trying letting a pitbull or rottweiler know you're alpha--they're apt to have other ideas.
 

OULobo

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arnisador said:
There's a story that one of the Gracies choked out a pitbull.

I wouldn't suggest trying letting a pitbull or rottweiler know you're alpha--they're apt to have other ideas.

The reason we top the food chain is intelligence and tool usage. As long as I'm armed, and I always am :hammer:, no dog is going to walk away from attacking me. The bigger the dog, the bigger the tool, like a Dodge Ram, it seems to do well against Rots, Pits, muggers, small standing structures, and most Nissans. :uhyeah:
 
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Thesemindz

Thesemindz

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OULobo said:
The reason we top the food chain is intelligence and tool usage. As long as I'm armed, and I always am :hammer:, no dog is going to walk away from attacking me. The bigger the dog, the bigger the tool, like a Dodge Ram, it seems to do well against Rots, Pits, muggers, small standing structures, and most Nissans. :uhyeah:


I can tell you from personal experience that the Dodge Ram won't stand a chance against my solid steel Plymouth Volare station wagon. Of course, the Ram wasn't hurt either at forty miles an hour, so maybe it was a clash of titans.

For survivability I'll take a mid seventies station wagon any day. Now gas mileage is another matter...

-Rob
 
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