Self Defense System vs Friend? (non-malicious attacker)

oftheherd1

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I'm actually not a huge fan of pain compliance techniques. They have their place, but they're not that reliable. A good wrestler/judoka/BJJer can control an opponent through the manipulation of balance, application of leverage, placement of weight, and the use of good body structure, without relying on pain to enforce compliance. In my experience, that approach is much more reliable.

In the Hapkido I learned, we used a variety of pressure points and joint locks, all of which caused pain, and in the case of joint locks, gave control or broke things depending on how far we carried it. Pressure points are different. A proper joint lock should hurt anyone if done correctly. I have found that some pressure points don't work the same for all people, if at all. But frankly, those people are in a small minority. Usually, a properly applied pressure point will cause pain. But again, as we learned pain pressure points, they were mostly to facilitate a technique.

All that to say joint locks, properly applied should work on anyone. If it wasn't properly applied, or your opponent knows a counter, you need to disengage quickly and try something else.
 

Tony Dismukes

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All that to say joint locks, properly applied should work on anyone.

Yep - if you're using them to cause structural damage by wrecking the joint. That's different from using them for pain compliance, where you take the technique to that fine line where you're starting to inflict pain but not damage and hope that your opponent cooperates due to the pain. Using joint locks that way creates a lot more chances for a serious opponent to escape or for a friend to get damaged accidentally.
 

oftheherd1

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Yep - if you're using them to cause structural damage by wrecking the joint. That's different from using them for pain compliance, where you take the technique to that fine line where you're starting to inflict pain but not damage and hope that your opponent cooperates due to the pain. Using joint locks that way creates a lot more chances for a serious opponent to escape or for a friend to get damaged accidentally.

All true. I have usually cranked in a joint lock untill I see them on their toes of hurrying to get where I am taking them. :)

Then I can usually stop and not apply more pressure, just keep what I got. But again, you are right that joint locks or pressure points must be approached with the knowledge they may not work as you intended, and you need to be able to transition to something else or put distance between you and your opponent until you can apply something that works.
 

punisher73

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Nick,

I have heard on about Green Dragon studios before, and the amount of stuff that they teach is from MANY different styles. The complaint that I have heard about all of them is that they are all done with the same "flavor" as each other, something that shouldn't happen in some of those styles. For example, you should see and feel a big difference between Hung Gar and Northern Shaolin.

Here is a list of all the forms that they teach.
http://www.greendragonkungfu.com/formsindex.asp

I'm not saying that they are bad, but it doesn't seem that they specialize in one system and do it very, very well. They kind of collect forms and add them to their curriculum and it has the "green dragon" specialization to it.
 

punisher73

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Here is a look at some Chin Na
 
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Nick Stanovic

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Yes I saw that they teach a lot of forms and thought it would be confusing. I don't know much about Kung Fu but figured each school would specify in one form/style and get really good at it. That way I could tell my friends that I am studying a certain form of Kung Fu instead of just saying I'm learning Kung Fu. Thanks for the video too
 

oftheherd1

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Nick,

I have heard on about Green Dragon studios before, and the amount of stuff that they teach is from MANY different styles. The complaint that I have heard about all of them is that they are all done with the same "flavor" as each other, something that shouldn't happen in some of those styles. For example, you should see and feel a big difference between Hung Gar and Northern Shaolin.

Here is a list of all the forms that they teach.
http://www.greendragonkungfu.com/formsindex.asp

I'm not saying that they are bad, but it doesn't seem that they specialize in one system and do it very, very well. They kind of collect forms and add them to their curriculum and it has the "green dragon" specialization to it.

I understand and can't disagree. However, it may be the instructor has simply chosen to incorporate what he believes to be the best of several systems, into one "new" system that he will eventually (if not already) become GM of.

Thanks for that link BTW. I haven't watched all of it, but saw some similarities to some techniques I learned in Hapkido. One difference I seem to see is that we would have stopped our take down at a point where we would have kicked the opponent in the head; disorienting if not damaging to the face and neck. Is what is shown at the beginning common in that regard?
 

Cyriacus

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First, I love how I could disappear for a while, and miss out on very very little.

Thanks for the helpful advice and replies once again. I found out that the university does not have Judo or Aikido but if Chin Na is part of Kung Fu that is similar then that will be pretty neat. I'm not very strong but I have good muscle tone so trying a MA that is force meets force would not work good for me. I will research Chin Na now. :)

Now, let me teach You something:

Im out of shape, Im not fast, Im not strong, and so forth, is what just about everyone says before taking any given Martial Art. Those are things that are taught to You. Youre not born a muscle clad machine.

That being said...

Yes I saw that they teach a lot of forms and thought it would be confusing. I don't know much about Kung Fu but figured each school would specify in one form/style and get really good at it. That way I could tell my friends that I am studying a certain form of Kung Fu instead of just saying I'm learning Kung Fu. Thanks for the video too

Is it really important to You that You can call it something other than Kung Fu to Your friends? :)
 

shesulsa

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Nick - there is an awful lot of analysis here ... here's a thought:

How about just starting somewhere and restrain yourself around your friends?
 

rickster

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club called Green Dragon Kung Fu
Name sucks/Flowery - RUN AWAY




QUOTE=Nick Stanovic;1494409] (my friends are already jokingly making fun of me for "thinking about joining the villain dojo from The Karate Kid") where a form called White Lotus is used. [/QUOTE]
Common Name found in texts.
RUN AWAY


QUOTE=Nick Stanovic;1494409] From research it seems like this is not an official system/style but a name that various teachers use to make their system "sound cool." [/QUOTE]
If it is cool-it sucks RUN AWAY



QUOTE=Nick Stanovic;1494409] The system advertised is supposed to be female in nature because it focuses on self defense via finger strength by teaching nerve strikes and disabling moves like attempting to dig out eyes or tear off ears. [/QUOTE]
Flowery-RUN AWAY

QUOTE=Nick Stanovic;1494409] EDIT: This is a demo of White Lotus (
) but animal forms are taught at the school as well. Oh and does anyone have any personal experiences or have heard of Sifu John R Allen? Thanks again! [/QUOTE]
If there are many animals.\, it is a thrown together miX-sucks - RUN AWAY


QUOTE=Nick Stanovic;1494409] My question from the title is: What systems are there that I could use to fend off a friend or someone 'play fighting'? Obviously I don't want to severely injure a friend messing around with me so I was just curious about a system for stopping or controlling incoming attacks without trying to maim the other person, if this question even makes sense. Sorry. ! [/QUOTE]
"Play Fighting" - RUN AWAY
 
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K-man

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I think that rickster​ has it right. The style you really want is Ree Bok Do! :)
 

ETinCYQX

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The Tapout thing is one part I'm not getting into. Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is what's prominent in MMA, not Jujutsu. BJJ is closer to Judo.

Judo is not a gentle style and it is not good for what you want. It may look like its easier on your friend than punching him in the face, but when you throw someone you are hitting them with a planet. I have been hurt over and over again doing Judo on tatami with skilled friends. Even in non resisting drills.

Dont play fight. If your friends want to play fight, find smarter friends.
 

Kenpo17

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Many universities have a Hapkido, Judo, or Jiu-Jitsu club/group. As far as using any system/discipline on your friends, do not do it. First, if any administrators caught you or heard about you using Martial Arts on another student, you would run the risk of being suspended or expelled, and secondly, you wouldn't want to hurt yourself or your friend. Even though you don't mean to, the chances of you accidentally striking him hard are high. I know after classes when the instructors are fooling around, we sometimes strike each other too hard, not because we mean to, we just lose control.
 

David43515

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Nick, I'm originally from Northern Ohio and have had the chance to train with some of John R. Allen's students. They are all very good, and they are very well rounded. While the White Lotus style is one that they teach, they all get a very firm grounding in northern and southern shaolin systems before branching out into any specialized training. They also do alot of traditional training to make women and men of small size very strong. So don't worry about not being strong to start with. And also don't worry that all they teach is "deadly nerve strikes", they'll teach you alot of basic strikes, kicks, throws and joint locks that you could use against someone without doing irreversible damage. Like someone else said, they tend to make several styles look the same, but they have a great deal of solid, traditional, and above all practical experience.
Just train hard and take plenty of notes. They LIKE to see that.
 

Curlykarateka

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Finally, a subject I can claim some genuine experience with...despite my relative incompetence defending keyboards from probing hands is a specialty. just jab a couple fingers in their ribs, genty though. usually enough to neutralise an Alt+F4 attacker
 

Prostar

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When confronted with the "What would you do if..." question, a friend of mine would answer with, "What can I break?"

Huh?

Well, I can't really show you what I would do unless you come at me full power and I defend it, usually breaking something. So what can I break?

That put an end to silly questions.

Other than that, I would suggest that you shop around and find the class that looks like the best fit for you. If they give you a week or two free trial, take it. You will find the best one for you.
 

Cyriacus

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When confronted with the "What would you do if..." question, a friend of mine would answer with, "What can I break?"

Huh?

Well, I can't really show you what I would do unless you come at me full power and I defend it, usually breaking something. So what can I break?

That put an end to silly questions.

Other than that, I would suggest that you shop around and find the class that looks like the best fit for you. If they give you a week or two free trial, take it. You will find the best one for you.

Optionally, you could just answer "I dunno man. What would you suggest?"
Its a bit less toughguy.
 

Kenpo5.0Hawker

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Man. I'm just a white belt these days. But I'd guess I have enought street exp mixed with some training to weigh in on this. I wont ever wrestle or spar with guys (or gals) who don't train seriously. They don't have the disciplin and are more Likly than not asking you to wrestle/spar for the wrong reasons. Chances are as others have said, they want to prove themselves better than you. Even if you hold back and they win. One day their false security will come back and bite you. I've lost friends several times over this kinda thing. Nowadays I don't get those kind of requests unless my friend is also I training. I'm older and we are all mellowed a bit.



Tom
 

CK1980

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I had a coworker who used to like to come up behind me and attempt to put me in a rear choke... He did this because he knew I was a martial arts student. I would always tell him to stop messing around. On a particular night at work, I wasn't in a very good mood and he came up behind me and attempted to put me in a rear choke... Before I realized it, I had countered, escaped, and put him on his knees with his elbow just below the back of his own neck... It wasn't intentional, but it was reactionary and it was enough to get him to finally back off...

I like the responses of "I dunno..." or "Hmmm, I never really thought about it". But I say if your friends are dumb enough to put their hands on you then go ahead and show them what you would do, but demonstrate enough self control to stop before seriously hurting them. It should get the point across.
 
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