Self Defence Orientated Martial Artists need weight training?

[MJS]

I used to incorporate a fairly comprehensive weight training program into my routine. Problem was I found it boring, and it sucked up a lot of time that maybe would be better spent practicing my art. I finally compromised and now I do a moderate series of stomach crunches, pushups, and arm curls. Nothing more. It takes little time to do so the boredom aspect is minimized and I am free to spend the time training my art instead.

Yeah, I hear you on the boring part. There were many days when I sat at home, trying to decide if it was worth the drive to the gym. I had considered getting a workout partner, but then trying to set a firm time to workout is another challenge.

The end result for me: As a Christmas gift, my wife bought me a universal weight set. Doesn't allow me to have all of the fancy stuff that I'd find at the gym, but I still get a great workout, can workout whenever I want, don't have to pay any gym dues, and I've found that my workouts can be done much quicker than when I was going to the gym.

Mike

 

[MJS]

That is our curse. If only I didn't need to work a job...GO LOTTO!!

I like the sound of that!!!:supcool:

Mike

 

[arnisador]

I work out at home too. I wouldn't find the time to drive somewhere. I have an all-in-one device at home, but while I'm away for the year I bought a simple weight set at Sears. It's a little bit limiting, but it does the trick.

 

[Icewater]

You punches will hit harder ifyou get your core beyond where it is now. I promise you that.

Mike has the right of it here. Train your core and the rest will follow. It certainly is not 'necessary', but it will serve you well in MA and your overall health.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

I don't think strength is nearly as important as speed and endurance as far as physical attributes that can be trained go.

But, it sure doesn't hurt!

Exactly, but if you know what you're doing, a modest strength training regimen doesn't take that long. I get better results in 30 minutes two to three times a week now at 38 than I did with 1-2 hours every other day at 19. Difference is, I have some experience and knowledge that I absolutely lacked then. I'm sure you found a similiar thing as you got older?

 

[Brother John]

I definately wouldn't say strength is a bad thing but too much strength training can slow you down. You pretty much have to have balance in your workouts (as in all things).

I'm all for balance in your workouts....but....

the old myth of being "musclbound" is just that, a myth. Having large and very strong muscles does not necesarily hamper flexibility or speed... infact, what generates speed???
One important ingredient is that which moves our limbs in the first place, muscular contractions.

Lots of sport train for strength but the specific event relies on speed and coordination. Take boxing for example. Or many of the olympic sports. Even basketball players need to hit the weights.


No.....strength building isn't NEEDED in training to be the best martial artist you can be, but it's VERY healthy and is a Great addition to what you can do physically.

Never know when a friend's gonna ask you to help him move...


Your brother
John

 

[Adept]

As SkyGuy mentioned, when all other things are equal, the bigger guy wins. The same goes for any advantage, be it speed, skill, armament, endurance, or cunning.

So if you can increase your bulk and your strength without damaging your felxibility and your speed, then go for it!

The best way I've found to increase strength and size is work in decreasing sets with increasing weights. To maintain and increase your flexibility and speed, make sure you give your muscles time to heal between workouts, stretch thoroughly before and after, and use some plyometric exercises as well.

 

[CuongNhuka]

mmm. think of this way. does being big bulky (if thats what your going for) make you a better martial artist? no. well it help you defend yourself? not really. however if you look like the Arnold (acter/body builder/politician) then people will asume your really tuff. are you? maybe, maybe not. the point is alot of stupid people will think you are.

if you do end up going out for for building strenght here are some ideas. since you seem to not know what your doing get a personal trainer. then get together with him/her some time and come up with your personal schedule. a good way to decide the amount of weight you what to lift is to max out. a good safe max out is the most amount of weight you can lift 10 times perfectly. and then lift 1/3 of that weight.

when you lift rember that you lift never lift useing the same muscle groups two days in a row. a good work out is:
monday: upper body
tuesday: lower body
wendsday: cardio
thursday: upper body
friday: lower body
saturday: cardio
sunday: take it off so your body can heal it self.
some thing you need to rember:
1. never streach a cold muscle
2. never work (in the weight training sense) a cold, not streached muscle
3. when you think you cann't lift, don't
4. when your spotter says you cann't lift, don't
warm up with a few minutes of cardio, streach, work out. a good idea is after you work out, do a cool down of isometerics and then streach. weight trainingwill reduce flexibility, so when your done, streach again. it will also help you build more muscle mass. (cool hu?) the last two are a very good idea since your self defense oriented. isometerics will make you more explosive (load back, and explode through bones and shuch of the other guy). and if you cann't be locked you cann't have abone/joint brocken.

any ways, what ever. and if your personal trainer says other wise, ignore me.

Sweet Brighit Bless your Blade,

John

 

[twayman]

MA and weight training = one strong martial artist. I train in weights as well as my MA training. It is my view that if you can be strong, fast and have skill then the better you will fair in a fight.

 

[Shaolinwind]

I dont think I would say training with weights makes you a more serious martial artists or that its a stable (staple?) part of being a MAist. Building mass and building strength are two seperate things. For someone interested purely in self defense I would recommend body weight, anaerobic workouts. There are thousands of different types of body weight workouts; pushups, dips, pullups, crunches, situps, body hops, running, bleachers, etc. More than building mass or lifting weights, this person should be in there fighting. High cardio is the key, very high.

If you must use weights, I would recomend lower weight with higher reps. Of course there are many different ideas to self defense and the style you train will subscribe to one of these. Most CMA dont use muscle strength so heavy weight training to build mass could almost be viewed as a detriment.

7sm

I am in total agreement, particularly about the cardio.

 

[Adept]

A couple of things I want to address here:

More than building mass or lifting weights, this person should be in there fighting. High cardio is the key, very high.

Lifting weights works your cardio vascular system just as hard and just as thoroughly as a dedicated 'cardio' workout does. The only difference is that it also increases mass and size. Weights are detrimental where large muscle mass is a disadvantage, such as in the pool or on distance runs, but otherwise it is always and advantage. It doesnt limit your movement or flexibility (except in very extreme Mr Universe style cases) and significantly increases your strength, mass, stability, and natural 'armour'.

In short, for martial arts and self defence, you are almost always better off lifting weights than doing a dedicated cardio workout. Since weightlifting is limited by recovery rates, there is still a place for cardio workouts, and many low impact isolation exercises (skipping rope, crunches) and many SD or MA specific exercises (speed ball, patterns or sparring) are definate 'cardio' workouts as well. It certainly has a place, I won't deny that. But if you are deciding to spend a fwe more hours a week at the gym, look at weightlifting before the treadmill or the bikes.

If you must use weights, I would recomend lower weight with higher reps.

I disgaree. If you are going to use weights, you will get the best results from starting at a medium weight, and increasing per set. Lifting light weights works your heart and lungs, but doesn't increase the mass of the muscle group you are working. Since lifting heavier will work your heart and lungs just as much, and increase the muscle mass as well, there is no reason not to do it.

a good way to decide the amount of weight you what to lift is to max out. a good safe max out is the most amount of weight you can lift 10 times perfectly. and then lift 1/3 of that weight.

Nearly right. First, you need to find your ten rep max, as CNK says above. Then, you need to work out your set weights. This is how I do it.

TRW = ten rep weight

First set - 10 x TRW -20%

Second set - 10 x TRW -20%

Third set - 8 x TRW -10%

Fourth set - 6 x TRW

Fifth set - 4 x TRW +10%

 

[CuongNhuka]

True adept, I mostly thought the gentle man was looking to increase muscle endurance and strength slowly. I’m not sure if most people could start doing a lifting regiment quite like that. Though, I suppose it mostly matters on the amount of weight and your inherent body strength. Either way.

Sweet Brighit Bless your Blade,

John

 

[notalent]

I think when you talk about the negatives about being big and musclebound, you need to remember how long it takes to become a size that it is actually negatively impacting other areas.

These bodybuilders, they are working out hours and hours everyday, eating 10,000 calorie + diets a day, etc. The average person, one wouldn't be able to afford the food alone (they aren't eating hamburgers, they are eating protien foods, chicken, etc...that's A LOT of food).

I hear this among women a lot when they say they don't want to "bulk" up and not weight train. When in truth, unless they eat and sleep weightlifting it's not going to make them look like a man.

I myself, haven't even started in the MA yet. But, I've weight trained in the past with bodybuilding types and it's a lifestyle thing that you have to do to be so big. Minus using illegal drugs, it takes years and years to put real muscle on your frame. I'd go on a limb here and say there's very few ppl here (myself included) that have anything to worry about as far as putting too much muscle on our frame. Minus the very, very few, we aren't going to get huge working out 3 days a week.

I totally agree about the boring aspect. One reason I myself don't plan on going back to the gym. I'm going to do all the other stuff (push ups, etc, some free weights) to help me once I start my MA adventure.

 

[ed-swckf]

I personally don't use any weight training, and while i'm sure it has its benifits i'm sure too that there are some drawbacks. Above all however i will say self defence orientated martial artists do not need weight training.

 

[tempus]

If pressed for time you may want to look into functional weight training. Where you are working out in mutliple planes of motion. For example, I can bench press a good amount of weight, but how often during the day do I get under something and press it from my chest. Where as I am carrying a box, drop my keys and now I have to hold the box, bend down and pick up the keys. This is just as an example. As with martial arts there are balance and techniques done in different planes of motion. I usually split my workouts with Chest\Triceps, Back\Biceps, Legs and shoulders. I am now going to fit in exercises utilizing medicine and the physoball. i.e. Medicine ball throws, with a squat and catch / Lunges with a diagnoal chop, etc. I figure it cannot hurt to hit some of the core muscles. I study Nihon Goshin Aikido and I figure the this type of training will help with the throws, falls, and rolls. Since sometimes you cannot be sure of which way you are going to fly across the room.

 

[CuongNhuka]

notalent and tempus, check your user cp. good points.