San Da- good or bad?

[Freestyler777]

I once read in 'spirit of shaolin' by david carradine, "Kung Fu is pure streetfighting", meaning it is not a sport, it is self defense.

I am just starting out in my chinese martial arts trek, I am a licensed acupuncturist and I have done a couple of years of judo. Judo, however is a sport, not a martial art. So on Sunday I begin training in Shuai Jiao, or Chinese Wrestling, and I was thinking of training in San Da in parallel, to stay in shape.

My primary goal now is to learn Chinese Wrestling, because judo is not SD-oriented. But I also want to work out at a san da gym. I hope someone replies with some useful insight. Thanks.

 

[clfsean]

I once read in 'spirit of shaolin' by david carradine, "Kung Fu is pure streetfighting", meaning it is not a sport, it is self defense.

Eh look at the source, but he's not 100% wrong either. TCMA is about going home at the end of the night safely. Sporting use is secondary, unless you do modern wushu. Then it's the only focus.

I am just starting out in my chinese martial arts trek, I am a licensed acupuncturist and I have done a couple of years of judo. Judo, however is a sport, not a martial art. So on Sunday I begin training in Shuai Jiao, or Chinese Wrestling, and I was thinking of training in San Da in parallel, to stay in shape.

You'll get everything in Judo in SJ but more inline with taking care of yourself first, tournies later. Not the other way around. One of the big focuses of TCMA is in self defense is to "hit the opponent with the ground because it never misses". in SJ you learn to put the opponent down, hard to finish, not to score a point.

My primary goal now is to learn Chinese Wrestling, because judo is not SD-oriented. But I also want to work out at a san da gym. I hope someone replies with some useful insight. Thanks.

San Da means free fighting mostly. In San Da, you'll find elements of SJ in it. All TCMAs have SJ & San Da, otherwise they're empty of anything useful. But SD by itself is pretty much just kickboxing. Mind you I'm using very broad terms & strokes here, but that's what it is in that context.

 

[kidswarrior]

Eh look at the source, but he's not 100% wrong either. TCMA is about going home at the end of the night safely. Sporting use is secondary, unless you do modern wushu. Then it's the only focus.



You'll get everything in Judo in SJ but more inline with taking care of yourself first, tournies later. Not the other way around. One of the big focuses of TCMA is in self defense is to "hit the opponent with the ground because it never misses". in SJ you learn to put the opponent down, hard to finish, not to score a point.



San Da means free fighting mostly. In San Da, you'll find elements of SJ in it. All TCMAs have SJ & San Da, otherwise they're empty of anything useful. But SD by itself is pretty much just kickboxing. Mind you I'm using very broad terms & strokes here, but that's what it is in that context.

clfsean pretty much covered it.

 

[Rabu]

I like the answers so far as well. Well said.

The modern debates regarding 'what art is "ALIVE"' is the same as what I saw 25+ years ago in magazines. The 'deadliest martial art of the month' club drives some fairly poor behaviors.

In regards to training in any martial art, the venue you wish to use your art for should be foremost in your mind.

By Venue, I mean the application, either in sport or street or perhaps simply in cultural practice. My statement doesnt mean that you wont find peices of what you are looking for in each venue, but you will certainly find more satisfaction training for what you specifically are looking for rather than using a shotgun approach.

If you are seeking a more 'hard core' approach to fighting, then you may greatly enjoy the San Da/San Shou format. You may also find its not quite what you expected and need to examine what you can do to obtain the results you have in mind.

Best of luck!

Rob

 

[Freestyler777]

I think I will stick to Shuai Jiao, and find another exercise to do during the rest of the week. San Da might be too much contact for me.

But I have a dilema, I don't want to do kickboxing, yet I don't want to do submission. And anyway, my focus is self defense and the ensuing confidence it brings. And the downside to Shuai Jiao is that it is only once a week practice.

So what should I do in between classes? Qi Gong? Some other martial art? Suggestions are welcome.

 

[Taijiguy]

San Da combines punching, kicking, and throwing. Sometimes elbows and knees too, or even ground fighting and chin na depending on the teacher's background (whether they're ONLY about the sport or about martial art first... san da is a format started as military training by traditional martial artists to safely test a good range of techniques) .

Really can't give you much more advise though without knowing what's available around you. There's a lot of great martial arts you could do but it's not much use throwing out names unless you have access to them I think the San Da and shui jiao combination would be pretty darn good. A good san da coach wouldn't push you into getting hurt. You wouldn't be doing a lot of heavy contact unless he thought you were conditioned well enough to take it.

 

[qi-tah]

I think I will stick to Shuai Jiao, and find another exercise to do during the rest of the week. San Da might be too much contact for me.

But I have a dilema, I don't want to do kickboxing, yet I don't want to do submission. And anyway, my focus is self defense and the ensuing confidence it brings. And the downside to Shuai Jiao is that it is only once a week practice.

So what should I do in between classes? Qi Gong? Some other martial art? Suggestions are welcome.

Xing Yi practice can be very readily adapted to a self-defense mindset. It's a very no-nonsense, direct striking art that i find complements Shuai Jiao well.

 

[marlon]

the first art i studied was judo and it has served me very well. Of course i had a great teacher who taught every technique in a very technical manner first the application the street application. I remember him constasntly saying this way for competition and this way for the street. Choose what is best for you and remeber that the ground can hit a lot harder than you
I have now been doing kempo for 17 years and still love judo...with the mind set that works for the street
respectfully,
marlon

 

[pete]

Ba Gua Zhang, specifically in the Cheng lineage, may be a good option to supplement Shuai Jiao.... check your personal messages.

pete

 

[profesormental]

Greetings.

It depends on what the instructors in your area are teaching. Take inventory of your options, that way we may be able to suggest something within the context of what you're looking for (self defense).

In my opinion, Shuai Jiao is great!

So is San Da/San Shou. Yet San Da is mostly well, kick boxing and throws. There are variations in which it is really "free fighting"... yet again, depends on the instructors. Here, we expand San Da to different objectives: takedowns, clean strikes, even immobilizations/controls and submission.

Competition rules are, again, mostly kickboxing and takedowns.
Hope this helps.

Juan M. Mercado

 

[barnaby]

Hi -- I think you're lucky to have found a shuai-chiao school. It's considered the oldest martial art and therefor is a great base no matter what your goals. If your school traces back to Chang, as most do, there will probably be a Chang style Tai Chi class during the week, which would compliment what you're doing pretty ideally, working toward the practical.

The other thing you might do is see if any of the students in the shuai-chiao class want to get together and train during the week. even without mats there are things you can work together, especially if the partner(s) is fairly experienced.

are you with the Hall of the Lion school by any chance?

 

[oddball]

From my understanding of it - isn't san da/san shou just a rule set? I think that people still train their specific CMA and then try to change or adapt a bit to fit inside that rule set.

So, if you do learn a style of CMA, then san da could be a very good chance to test the applications of it.

But, I'm not familiar with CMA and if they have the same base - so something to ask the instructor(s) is whether or not it will compliment or detract from each other.