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Hudson69

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http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/m...SfLzOR0wotz7mM


Martial arts teacher stabbed by ex-con during argument over dogs

By JOHN DOYLE, CHUCK BENNETT and JENNIFER BAIN

Last Updated: 5:50 PM, September 30, 2010

Posted: 2:07 PM, September 30, 2010

A martial arts instructor turned bartender was stabbed to death last night by an ex-con after the two argued over their dogs outside a Brooklyn bar, police and witnesses said.

The deadly encounter occurred around 2 a.m. at the Branded Saloon on Vanderbilt Avenue in Prospect Heights when off-duty bartender Chai-Eun Hillman’s dog began fighting with convicted murderer Daniel Pagan’s pooch.

Hilllmann, 41, a former karate instructor, had come to the bar on his night off to hear a band play and tied his dog Rocco, a miniature pinscher, to the bar.

Pagan and his female companion also tied their dog to the bar and the animals began playing or fighting, said Rondel Sommerset, 30, an eyewitness and friend of Hillmann.

"The wife was trying to separate the dogs. Chai and the stabber were arguing whose dog could beat up whose, it was in a sort of joking way, it wasn't serious," Sommerset told The Post.

Apparently the dogs leashes became entangled and Hillmann may have brushed up against Pagan’s companion.

"The stabber was saying, ‘You pushed my wife’s arm.’ Chai said, ‘No I didn't, before we get into this ask your wife,’" Sommerset said.

"They started to tussel, no punches were thrown, people were trying to break it up. The wife wasn’t saying anything," he added.

The bartender on duty, Dan Hultquist, 38, went to break the two up.

"Dan got sliced first. I saw the knife in the guys hand. It was jagged and was a flip knife," Sommerset said.

Hultquist was stabbed in the neck, according to poilce.

"Chai and the guy ended up in the street. That’s when I saw the stabber’s elbow going back and forth [in a] stabbing motion eight times," Sommerset said. "Chai stumbled, he got up twice and said, ‘He stabbed me he stabbed me.’"

Hillmann was pronounced dead on arrival at Kings County Hospital.

Pagan, who served nine years in prison for shooting a man to death in 1991 and wounding another, has been charged with murder, police said. He declined to comment after being charged this afternoon.

Hultquist is in stable condition at Kings County Hospital.

The Korean-born Hillman used to run the Chai Karate martial arts school in Ardsley.

In a 1996 interview with the New York Times, Hillman, a black belt, said people should study martial arts for self-defense.

"They won’t be victims," he said. "They can choose whether to continue confrontation or get out of it and flee."

Staff at the Branded Saloon posted this message on the bar’s Facebook page, "We are deeply saddened by the loss of our dear friend and co-worker Chai Eun J Hillmann who was killed last night in an act senseless violence. The attacker also stabbed another co-worker and dear friend Daniel who is recovering. We ask that you keep Chai and Daniel's family and friends in your thoughts and prayers."

The bar will hold a vigil Saturday night to protest violence and honor’s Hilmann’s memory.
 

Supra Vijai

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wow... that's terrible. Hate to push the bounds of propriety but it also illustrates that just because you train MA doesn't mean you're invincible.... Your best bet is to exercise your awareness and intuition and as much as possible avoid the situation.

Again I know that wouldn't mean much for Mr. Hillmann or his family, just for the rest of us reading this. My thoughts go out to them
 

Bruno@MT

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Who takes their dog to a bar?
And at 2 A.M. at that.

I was also a bit taken aback by this:

"The stabber was saying, ‘You pushed my wife’s arm.’ Chai said, ‘No I didn't, before we get into this ask your wife,’" Sommerset said.

If something like this happens, you just know that arguing about it is going to end badly for one of the parties involved. That party might be you. When such a thing happens, don't argue but just apologise. Offer to buy a beer if there is a possibility that the other person may genuinely have been mistaken. Otherwise he might feel the need to defend his wife's honor and it could get ugly.

Btw, this is not just what I think, and which might be mistaken for not being the 'manly' option, but Bas Rutten says the same thing. Defuse the situation with a beer if that is all it takes. Only fight if it is unavoidable, not because of a bruised ego.
 

sgtmac_46

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And at 2 A.M. at that.

I was also a bit taken aback by this:



If something like this happens, you just know that arguing about it is going to end badly for one of the parties involved. That party might be you. When such a thing happens, don't argue but just apologise. Offer to buy a beer if there is a possibility that the other person may genuinely have been mistaken. Otherwise he might feel the need to defend his wife's honor and it could get ugly.

Btw, this is not just what I think, and which might be mistaken for not being the 'manly' option, but Bas Rutten says the same thing. Defuse the situation with a beer if that is all it takes. Only fight if it is unavoidable, not because of a bruised ego.

So many things about this case don't quite make sense........well, let me rephrase that, they don't make sense sober.
 

Joe1957

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9 years in prison for shooting a man to death and then released, guess the parole system messed up here.

Very sorry to hear. My best to the family. Joe
 

Bruno@MT

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9 years in prison for shooting a man to death and then released, guess the parole system messed up here.

I think that depends on the exact circumstances of the shooting, which I know nothing about. In some cases the 9 years could be a just sentence.
 

Daniel Sullivan

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Okay,

1. What the heck was a guy who "shot someone to death" doing out of prison??

2. Unless you have a disability that requires a dog for mobility, you're better off leaving your animals at home when going into businesses unless you're heading to Petco, Petsmart, or the vet. The bar is the last place I'd want to bring my dog.

3. If your animal and another individual's animal meet, don't engage in debate over who's dog can beat up who's. It's stupid and immature. Had he separated his dog initially instead of arguing with the ex-con, the whole thing would have ended before it began. Even better, take the dog on a good healthy walk, then take him home, give him a bone, and then go to the bar sans animal.

4. If a rough looking guy who is consuming copius amounts of alcohol accuses you of pushing his wife while you're trying to separate your animal from his, apologize to her immediately and then to him. Then pay your tab, take your animal, and go; if two people brought their dogs in to tie them to the bar while drinking, chances are more will come and do the same. Let somone else take your place with the moron and his gal at the bar.

Very sad that the instructor died. Sadder still because it was very avoidable.

Daniel
 

ballen0351

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9 years in prison for shooting a man to death and then released, guess the parole system messed up here.

Very sorry to hear. My best to the family. Joe
9 years is a pretty long sentence now days for shooting someone I have seen people be convicted for Murder go to jail out in 4 years and arrested again for murder within a year of release and not once but twice. I guy shot a guy in a robbery got 20 years with all but 4 suspended and 6 months later accidently shot his cousin in the back of the head when the two were getting ready to do another robbery.
2nd case I remember two guys got into a fight at the bar. 1 guy beat the other to death with a metal trash can. He only did 2 1/2 years and killed his girlfriend and her sister about a year after getting out because he said she cheated on him when he was in prision.
 

Joe1957

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I think that depends on the exact circumstances of the shooting, which I know nothing about. In some cases the 9 years could be a just sentence.

Yes But, and I really know nothing about our parole system, are there not people who can tell if a person will, for lack of better words, act out again?
There must be something in a person that can be read by a psychologist or who ever they use to talk to an inmate?
Anyway, such a terrible thing.
 

Bruno@MT

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Yes But, and I really know nothing about our parole system, are there not people who can tell if a person will, for lack of better words, act out again?
There must be something in a person that can be read by a psychologist or who ever they use to talk to an inmate?
Anyway, such a terrible thing.

Short answer: no.
Long answer: nope.

At best they can say that based on XYZ, person A has an increased probability of reacting violently, but there is no way at all to say yes or no. And a lot of it will depend on whether that person will ever get in circumstances which would make him respond with violence.
 
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