S&T: Dealing with a bigger opponent

[Kenpo Yahoo]

Strategy and Tactics

Let's start by setting the environment, you are in an area with a high concentration of people (club, football game, mall, etc..) the location isn't as important as the idea that there are other people around. So you are in this highly populated area when you bump into someone or look at someone funny, or breath wrong (most of you know how this goes). Unfortunately, the person that percieved this is beligerant and a little bit bigger than you. Assuming that you have no alternative but to fight, formulate a good S&T approach to surviving/evading/defeating your opponent in this confrontation. Please don't assume total stupidity on the point of your attacker, and please don't ramble about the 7th and 8th move of your attack because in a dynamic fight you'll have to wing a lot of it.

Since I'm about average height and weight, by bigger I mean 6 foot plus and 200-260lbs

 

[muayThaiPerson]

It was at school...He wanted to fight me but I didnt even look at him. So nothing happend. But if something were to happen, Id have to go for a stomach shot. Its pointless to try to reach for his head. When he goes down, id lock his head and wont let go

 

[dearnis.com]

I would argue that strategy and tactics don't apply at this point; we are already at a level of technique because the scenario is so focused...
Since the scenario suggests having to fight I assume that a retreat/tactical withdrawl is out of the question.
Some variable that are not specified: are you alone, or not. if not who are you with? Is the attacker solo? If not who is he with? Have you been drinking? Has he? Drugs? Clothing? Weapons?
On a very simple level take a leg, work up as needed to create space, and get out fast (remeber, scenario states you have no choice but fighting).
Now, to answer the question with some questions, what do the above variables do to the situation?
Tactically, what did you do to be so boxed in that you 'had' to fight?

Just food for thought.

 

[Kenpo Yahoo]

While I think that there should be adequate training in martial diplomacy (avoiding, evading, de-escalation), I also believe that it is possible to evaluate things from a Clausewitzian perspective(hey look at that, I just made up a new word). In other words, you don't care why diplomacy has failed your job is to determine how to bring down your opponent.

The reason I ask this is because one day it may be necessary to do so, and if you haven't given any thought as to the steps you will take you could find your self way over your head.

Let's simplify this a bit and start small.

What type of posture will you adopt defensive or offensive and why? Is your plan to wait to be attacked so that you can DEFEND with a prescribed technique or do you act on the assumption of INTENT?

I personally would TRY and act on intent if it were clearly perceivable.

 

[Antares33]

I tend to subscribe to the theory that going into a fight with a plan is a great way to get yourself killed.

Generally speaking though, against a bigger opponent since I'm not a very big buy I'd have to chop him down with low leg kicks or shots to the groin.

 

[James Kovacich]

I have a natural response that is pretty good at slowing down an attack to assert some control. Everybody is differant and if he's already in motion with a haymaker its a differant game. But if he's just coming at you, as soon as he motions his hands I naturally just grab his hands. Its simple, just imagine his hands in front of you. You grab at the wrists, your hands (palm side on wrist) on the outside, also on top, if you can picture that.

Its easy to control someones hand movement, but you don't go looking for it. I think this came to me when I crossed over from Jun Fan Gung-Fu to Brazilian Jiu-jitsu. Its really the simplist form of a trap, you don't want to hold onto someone, eventually power will win. As you grab, both of his hands are briefly unavailable. He'll have to react and then you go with it.

Main thing is being in control. Its just a quick simple method of control. A good follow up, from 2 hand control, push or pull 1 of he hands, whichever you more comfortable with. Your better hand is your striking hand. I would like to step in and jam (with my left hand) his right arm into his left arm and punch or eyejab and punch or whatever comes out.

I use trapping in training but when I teach, being realistic don't expect tp fight a fight that looks like a movie. If you use footwork. bob and weave, you should be able to trap an arm, but you have to follow with a realistic fininsh.

It wouldn't be realistic to say trap, then punch to the stomach then grab the hair or whatever. You'll never pull it off. It is realistic to use a stopping or intercepting technique to create the opening for a quick finish.

As far as the fight in the niteclub. Avoid it. If you fall, you'll get stomped! But if you can't avoid it, whatever you do, do it quick and slip away into the crowd.

 

[Kenpo Yahoo]

I tend to subscribe to the theory that going into a fight with a plan is a great way to get yourself killed.

That's funny because I've always subscribed to the 7 P idea:
Proper Prior Planning Prevent Piss Poor Performance. I don't think it's ever wrong to have a plan, but as a wise man once said," It is a bad plan that doesn't allow modification." In other words I'm not talking about going in and saying," Hmmm I think I'll do Five Swords here (a kenpo tech), that should take care of the situation." Rather what I'm asking is what is your first move? Will you kick the inside or outside of the thighs/knees, will you shuffle in to establish a clinch position, will you aim for the head/jaw/neck? Will you adopt a total defensive posture and retreat backwards with your hands up to ward off punches? Will you shoot in for a takedown? I'm just curious what everyone's initial plan is.

I plan on asking this question to several members in our association in a couple weeks. There are a group of guys and gals that work at a pretty wild night club in an extremely wild town (Vegas) and most of the bouncers there are kenpo blackbelts, hopefully I can draw from their expertise. Anyway, That's partly why I asked about the nightclub.

 

[white belt]

Eyes, Throat, Groin and move outside his lead foot, into his blindside, until you score hard.

white belt

 

[Kenpo Yahoo]

I'm not sure you should try to crush the eyes or throat, such an event is sure to have serious repercussions. For instance a hard shot to the throat will collapse the trachea, possibly causing death. Granted it is a possible plan of action, but as trained MA'ers and trained fighters we should be able to put down an opponent without having to kill or permanently maim them (i.e. the eye gouge).

 

[white belt]

That is why I say TAP or crush. If the tap does not get them to back off, THEN crush.

white belt

 

[sweeper]

well it takes a pritty hard hit to colaps the trachea and it has to be at the base of the neck, and as for eye gauging, I have seen the after affects of some prity serious hits to the eyes with no real dammage (blurry or no vission) and no long term effects, so it isn't 100% that you can maim or kill someone with those strikes unless you do get alot of power.

Personaly I like to kick people in the shins.. most people realy hate that. Try to scrape off some skin than buckle in the knee. But realy your environment plays a big role, I mean at a night club if you are on a dance floor it is probably fairly packed, if you are at a football game where are you getting into it? in an isle? on the stairs? Who has high ground? near venders?

One thing is in a public place unless you cen get out of there fast people are gona see you fighting and what you do to the guy could look realy bad (if he ends up covered in blood for example). I think you would have to go by the feal of the opponant. If he doesn't know what he's doing you might be able to angle off to a side and isolate a limb and maybe get some kind of a standing lock or bar on it, but if he has much skill it will be alt harder, personaly I would want to grab something and throw it and use lower kicks to keep distance, I'm not a good grappler and I realy don't want to wrestle someone larger than me. If posable I would try to back out so it's realy obvious that he is persuing me.

 

[redfive]

If the guys a lot bigger then me and already to pounce or act on me. I will not wait for his attack, but rather I will go on the attack. Elbow strikes and knees to the stomack area or sides would be my weapons of attack. Most people do not know how to fight close in or short range. But they always seem to end up in a clinch. I would start with a knee and that may be enough to end it right there, but if not I will knee and jump into him and start with the elbows to the head area, while still doing some knees. If hes that much bigger then me I would have to try to drop him quick and get out. Elbow and knees are the best. Then when I get enough time and distance I will draw my combat folder and cut him, which will gain me enough time to drop to a kneeling position and draw my glock 23 and shoot his friends that are rushing me. Well, strike those last statements. I carry all that but would not use them in that case. I would not try to go in for a grapling move or joint crank right off the bat. If in the battery of elbows and knees I see a good lock or take down that I could do as a transition, then I would go for it. But to hurt him in some way as to keep him from getting back up and comeing at me a repeated time would be my goal.
The only realy big guys I'v had trouble with as far as attitude are the Urban cowboys and country hicks. I cant think of the other name we call them here in Dallas, But Kenpo Yahoo knows what I mean. The good news is that they are very stiff in nature and can hardley move in the tight wrangler jeans they wear. Just beware the belt buckle. but it seems that if you look at them or have any type of eye contact with them, its the same as a challange. the ones that get pissed are always the big once.
Elbow and knees, and a good thai kicks to the legs

Your friend in the Combat Arts, Redfive

 

[redfive]

ROPERS, Thats the name I was looking for. They are the reason I dont go to country and western clubs anymore.

Redfive

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by Kenpo Yahoo
Strategy and Tactics

Let's start by setting the environment, you are in an area with a high concentration of people (club, football game, mall, etc..) the location isn't as important as the idea that there are other people around. So you are in this highly populated area when you bump into someone or look at someone funny, or breath wrong (most of you know how this goes). Unfortunately, the person that percieved this is beligerant and a little bit bigger than you. Assuming that you have no alternative but to fight, formulate a good S&T approach to surviving/evading/defeating your opponent in this confrontation. Please don't assume total stupidity on the point of your attacker, and please don't ramble about the 7th and 8th move of your attack because in a dynamic fight you'll have to wing a lot of it.

Since I'm about average height and weight, by bigger I mean 6 foot plus and 200-260lbs

Gee, since I am 6'3" and about 275 lbs, I guess I do not fit into the bigger but the huge catagory?

Seriously, I seem to have the exact opposite problem. That little guy that seems to think that buy running into me and pretending to be offended it allows him to swing.

So, if I swing first I am the bad guy for beating up the little guy.

If I wait I could get hurt.

Any recommendations on what should be done. Many times, the chance to offer to buy a beer is not even a possiblility for these guys go from jerk to fight in 0.6 seconds.


Curious about your input

 

[Kenpo Yahoo]

I have seen the after affects of some prity serious hits to the eyes with no real dammage (blurry or no vission) and no long term effects

One of the blackbelts at my old school was the proud owner of a detached retina after his 3 year old swung his finger near "daddy's" eye. If a 3 year old with little or no comparable strength can accomplish this, I would be hard pressed to believe that a full grown individual would not be able to meet or exceed this level of damage.

The only realy big guys I'v had trouble with as far as attitude are the Urban cowboys and country hicks...
The good news is that they are very stiff in nature and can hardley move in the tight wrangler jeans they wear

Camel toe has a way of slowing people down. Ha ha
Good input R-5

 

[James Kovacich]

An eyejab is best used as a setup, a flinch or distraction to create the opening for the punch, elbow groin shot wharever your comfortable with.
I've been eyejabbed while training and it hurts but its not a finising move. MIGHT be able to finish with it, but more realistic to use it as a set up. Its also one of the easier setups to use.

Shin kick, hell ya, foot stomp too but you better have something else to go with it.

I know a lot of arts beleive in the one punch finish but that was in another time.

 

[Master of Blades]

So does the whole kick to the nuts thing not work anymore?

 

[MartialArtist]

Some basics that I like to cover (of course there are variables)

For taller people: Attack low, get inside, bring them down (take-down, grappling, hitting thighs and knees)

For someone heavier: Attack low, use speed to your advantage, hit areas that hurt such as the thigh and not places like the chest.

 

[SRyuFighter]

I would look for an opening and go after him.

 

[Kenpo Yahoo]

How many people out there practice bobbing and weaving?
You obviously don't want to turn the fight into a kungfu movie where you are trying to block and parry all of your opponents strikes, but an understanding of such a fundamental boxing strategy would be of great use.