S.c.a.r.s.
- Thread starter phlaw
- Start date
I own some of the videos. I would agree that they were super hyped up in the promotion of them. However, there is nothing new with them if you have previous training. The science and theories behind the moves are legit, so, I wouldn't call it B.S.
Hand Sword said:
That's what I've heard, as well. It's basic self-defence with a Kung Fu San Soo influence that's been repackaged and marketed as a killer Seal fighting method. Not B.S., strictly speaking, just hyped out of proportion to its value, IMO.
bushidomartialarts
Senior Master
i'm suspicious of any fighting system that makes an acronym out of a violent word.
shows somebody's putting too much thought into the marketing. this is always at the expence of putting enough thought into the curriculum.
krav maga and cdt are the best programs of this type i've seen out there.
shows somebody's putting too much thought into the marketing. this is always at the expence of putting enough thought into the curriculum.
krav maga and cdt are the best programs of this type i've seen out there.
Jonathan Randall said:
Absolutely right there! The videos were VHS and very cheaply made, but, priced very high!
Franc0
Purple Belt
SCARS had the most expensive videos on the market. A friend let me borrow a whole set he bought and he never asked for them back. After viewing them I can understand why.
The main problem I have with SCARS is their focus toward the "Autokinetic"(sp?) theory, that if if you hit someone on point "A", they will react like this so you can hit point "B" and so on. No one can always predict how an oponent will react to certain strikes or moves, so to predicate techniques based on predicted opponent responses is something I wouldn't rely on.
Like most systems, every system has something to offer, so I'm sure it would be of some help to the novice practitioner.
Franco
The main problem I have with SCARS is their focus toward the "Autokinetic"(sp?) theory, that if if you hit someone on point "A", they will react like this so you can hit point "B" and so on. No one can always predict how an oponent will react to certain strikes or moves, so to predicate techniques based on predicted opponent responses is something I wouldn't rely on.
Like most systems, every system has something to offer, so I'm sure it would be of some help to the novice practitioner.
Franco
PBMaster
Yellow Belt
Hi.
I am a Kung-Fu San Soo instructor. Scars is basically Kung-Fu San Soo with a military wrapper. It contains variants of our lesson base. More reference to knife and weapons use. Jerry Petersen did successfully market this package. Bill Hulsey was one of Jerry Petersen's Mentors.
Our military is exposed to many systems. The more the merrier.
Master Paul H. Borisoff
I am a Kung-Fu San Soo instructor. Scars is basically Kung-Fu San Soo with a military wrapper. It contains variants of our lesson base. More reference to knife and weapons use. Jerry Petersen did successfully market this package. Bill Hulsey was one of Jerry Petersen's Mentors.
Our military is exposed to many systems. The more the merrier.
Master Paul H. Borisoff
PBMaster said:
I don't know if this is correct, but I have heard from a number of people online that after studying both, they preferred the original San Soo because they felt that Peterson's material was stripped down and not nearly as good. I don't have the personal experience to say whether this is so or not, but I do think that a person could probably save a WHOLE lot of money by hooking up with a good San Soo instead of purchasing SCARS tapes.
BTW, great to have a San Soo instructor onboard at Martial Talk!
PBMaster
Yellow Belt
You know, by the very nature of San Soo, lessons are like the sentences of the spoken language. Without, the alphabet, grammar and syntax, the sentences will not make sense. So without the "rosetta stone" if you will all the lessons are like hieroglyphics.
A good teacher creates a great base understanding and the lessons create the understanding by supplying core ideas and ways to apply them.
Then the student's mind finds the ways to combines these ideas into extemporaneous combinations.
So beyond the hyperbole created by the constant reference to knives and the military situations, alot of the techniques are in fact pretty good.
So the lessons are only as good as the understanding of the man who made them up, or the practitioner who interprets them. Usually a lesson that is good has specific understoods core ideas and goals. Bad one usually don't make sense.
I suspect the Jerry Petersen changed them so as not the have them be a direct rip off from Jimmy H. Woo. However the basic 45, the first lessons seemed verbatim.
So from my POV the lessons are only as good as the understanding that went into creating them and the interpretation of the one who uses them.
I think I have seen a second generation book by a student of Jerry Petersen, also. They are based in San Diego.
PBMaster
A good teacher creates a great base understanding and the lessons create the understanding by supplying core ideas and ways to apply them.
Then the student's mind finds the ways to combines these ideas into extemporaneous combinations.
So beyond the hyperbole created by the constant reference to knives and the military situations, alot of the techniques are in fact pretty good.
So the lessons are only as good as the understanding of the man who made them up, or the practitioner who interprets them. Usually a lesson that is good has specific understoods core ideas and goals. Bad one usually don't make sense.
I suspect the Jerry Petersen changed them so as not the have them be a direct rip off from Jimmy H. Woo. However the basic 45, the first lessons seemed verbatim.
So from my POV the lessons are only as good as the understanding that went into creating them and the interpretation of the one who uses them.
I think I have seen a second generation book by a student of Jerry Petersen, also. They are based in San Diego.
PBMaster
CuongNhuka
Senior Master
masterfinger said:
i beleive that you can predict to a degree what an opponent is going to do based on how you attack/they blocked. and even attempting this is EXTREMELY dangerous. if your wrong, you could be in a seriously bad place. but if your right, you could really mess with your opponent.
but if it's more expensive, and lower quality to go with scars, i'd go with Kung Fu San Soo. but that is just my two cents.
PBMaster
Yellow Belt
You know guys,
One should avoid anticipating another action/reaction when fighting.
That being said, people at time react predictably. This is born out of how the human reflex system works.
One idea is that when pain is inflicted the body moves toward the pain.
In days of old people were struck intentionally and the result observed.
Many of the lessons of fighting were learned at a tremendous price.
When you speak to another person, at times you can predict how they will react when you say certain words to them. I skilled speaker can maneuver them by provoking and eliciting a desired response.
So it is in fighting. Experience is a powerful ally.
PBMaster
One should avoid anticipating another action/reaction when fighting.
That being said, people at time react predictably. This is born out of how the human reflex system works.
One idea is that when pain is inflicted the body moves toward the pain.
In days of old people were struck intentionally and the result observed.
Many of the lessons of fighting were learned at a tremendous price.
When you speak to another person, at times you can predict how they will react when you say certain words to them. I skilled speaker can maneuver them by provoking and eliciting a desired response.
So it is in fighting. Experience is a powerful ally.
PBMaster
bujuts
Green Belt
I live under ten miles from their HQ. While I've not been to their elite school, I ran across one of their seminars at a hotel while I was at another (non MA) seminar. I was honestly flabbergasted at the pricing. But from a marketing standpoint, my hat is off to them.
I spoke briefly to Jerry Peterson's son, nice enough guy, serious but polite, seems like the type to handles himself pretty well. Despite them keeping thshotel session a very closed door scene, I wiatched for a while through the hotel door peephole (which sees the whole room, pretty much). There wasn't anything that blew my dress up, to be honest. Nary a thing. Wan't impressed by the body mechanics, techniques were nothing I hadn't seen before in some varation or another, and it was basically a class full of obvious beginners who sought the "no frills, real deal" kind of thing, and unfortunately for their cashed out IRA or lost vacation bought into the SCARS marketing schpeel.
I viewed some of their clips on their website, and my lack of fervor for their eleite program was confirmed. Not bad for a regular priced self defense course, mind you. but for THAT price? I have friends in Special Forces currently that will train with me for a pint of beer if I make the eight hour drive to Fort Bliss, or the 12 hour drive to Fort Carson. This program is successful from a business standpoint, but the whole gimig has more holes in it than a politician's logic.
Good luck,
Steven Brown
Universal Kenpo Federation
I spoke briefly to Jerry Peterson's son, nice enough guy, serious but polite, seems like the type to handles himself pretty well. Despite them keeping thshotel session a very closed door scene, I wiatched for a while through the hotel door peephole (which sees the whole room, pretty much). There wasn't anything that blew my dress up, to be honest. Nary a thing. Wan't impressed by the body mechanics, techniques were nothing I hadn't seen before in some varation or another, and it was basically a class full of obvious beginners who sought the "no frills, real deal" kind of thing, and unfortunately for their cashed out IRA or lost vacation bought into the SCARS marketing schpeel.
I viewed some of their clips on their website, and my lack of fervor for their eleite program was confirmed. Not bad for a regular priced self defense course, mind you. but for THAT price? I have friends in Special Forces currently that will train with me for a pint of beer if I make the eight hour drive to Fort Bliss, or the 12 hour drive to Fort Carson. This program is successful from a business standpoint, but the whole gimig has more holes in it than a politician's logic.
Good luck,
Steven Brown
Universal Kenpo Federation
PBMaster
Yellow Belt
Steven.
I try to separate the business from an art. Some of our KFSS studios do real well financially and others are run like popsicle stands.
I am only a fair business man but really know how to teach my art. I am poor, my student rich.
Different people need different support systems. Some need to spend the bucks to feel they are committed, or buying something worth value. Some act differently. I had a student one year who tried to negotiate a very low yearly rate. I didn't budge and he finally paid what I wanted. You know after the song and dance, he only showed up a couple times that year. Go figure.
Most importantly MA study needs to be consistent and often and seminars are a poor format and substitute for general training. Most only go for fun, a smidge of insight and the social gathering.
Seminars are a lot of hype. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
But I am not sure people go to events for any specific reason.
PBMaster
I try to separate the business from an art. Some of our KFSS studios do real well financially and others are run like popsicle stands.
I am only a fair business man but really know how to teach my art. I am poor, my student rich.
Different people need different support systems. Some need to spend the bucks to feel they are committed, or buying something worth value. Some act differently. I had a student one year who tried to negotiate a very low yearly rate. I didn't budge and he finally paid what I wanted. You know after the song and dance, he only showed up a couple times that year. Go figure.
Most importantly MA study needs to be consistent and often and seminars are a poor format and substitute for general training. Most only go for fun, a smidge of insight and the social gathering.
Seminars are a lot of hype. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
But I am not sure people go to events for any specific reason.
PBMaster
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