Revealing Fake Martial Arts

[Jaysonrd]

I wanted to post this from my Master Chief Jermaine Andre. I enjoy reading many of the threads on this forum and I think this topic is also a good one that most everyone here might enjoy participating in.

Jermaine released a video about a year ago and I believe it was discussed on this forum about a question he gets asked quite often regarding martial arts and what is real or not real. Here is that video if you haven't seen it. It has been watched over 93,000 times on Youtube and generated a lot of comments and opinions.

Just the other day he decided to expand on this topic and is asking for others to help him in revealing fake martial arts and what works and what doesn't in different situations.

He explains it here in this video on how you can participate and help with this project.

I look forward to learning new arts and moves that are effective in various situations.

 

[Paul_D]

Television has pretty much ruined the effectiveness of martial arts. That's a rather sweeping, not to mention inaccurate, statement.

 

[pgsmith]

In my opinion, any martial art that doesn't teach you effective ways of dealing with the mental results of killing another human being are fake martial arts, and don't properly teach martial artists everything they need to know to properly utilize their training.

Not really, but a case could be made for it. That's the whole problem with crusades such as this one. Who exactly has the right to decide what is fake or not fake? I've spoken with many martial artists that could most likely not fight their way out of a cheap plastic grocery bag. However, they were happy, fit, and enjoyed their martial arts programs immensely. They simply had different expectations for their art.

While putting others down is an easy way to bolster your self, it is also an easy way to fall into the trap of prejudice. Where exactly do you draw the line, and what exactly are the reasons for "exposing" fake martial arts. These two questions speak to the heart of the matter in my opinion, and should be carefully thought out before jumping on any bandwagons.

Just my thoughts on the subject, but I suspect they may be fake.

 

[Flying Crane]

What makes jermaine Andre the authority? Perhaps he is fake...

Slippery slope there.

 

[mograph]

've spoken with many martial artists that could most likely not fight their way out of a cheap plastic grocery bag. However, they were happy, fit, and enjoyed their martial arts programs immensely. They simply had different expectations for their art.

Yep. It's a nuanced topic: if you meet a tai chi person who can't fight, are they fake? Is their teacher fake? Is their style fake? Is tai chi fake? Or if, as you say, they weren't taught to fight, and they know it and are quite happy, where's the harm?

But nuance is too nuanced for a lot of people, eh? As for this idea of revealing "fake martial arts," I don't see it as making existing attitudes better or worse; just the same, but now with video!

... or maybe, just to attempt to be constructive, Mr. Andre should do a series on broken promises in martial arts? That might place blame where it belongs (on people), and not lead to hasty and inaccurate generalizations about particular arts.
Of course, we could hope that nobody claims "tai chi promised this, and didn't deliver!" ... because people, not systems, make promises.

 

[mograph]

What makes jermaine Andre the authority?

I think he has probably received a lot of requests to do this, and wants to invite contributions and viewer engagement ... but he hasn't really thought it through.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I'll have to seen a funky Jow Ga technique and let him try to figure it out. Not every technique is clearly understood just by looking at it from a form. His efforts reminds me of an MMA guy that used to train with our school. He would come to the school to pick up pieces of various techniques that he thought he could use in his MMA. The problem was that there is usually more to a technique than just swinging the arms a certain way. A detailed understanding of a technique is often required in order to effectively deploy a technique at the right time and in the right situation. I wonder if this guy is doing the same thing while trying to answer questions about what's fake or not.

 

[Flying Crane]

Yeah, understanding the proper foundational training that a method is built upon makes all the difference in the world.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

There are 2 ways of looking at the whole "fake Martial Arts" topic. The first are those people wishing to expose those instructors who are not "qualified" to teach the art they practice, usually by claiming that they are masters when they don't even know the basics. Here is one example of this:

I don't know anything about BJJ so can't really comment on the techniques shown, but if the guy on the video claims on his website to be a registered black belt from some organisation and isn't, that is false advertising and should be exposed.

The other way of exposing "fake Martial Arts" are the people who claim that certain styles are "fake" just because you don't see them used in UFC or on the street. They believe that something is only a true Martial Art if you can prove it to work in real combat. These are the guys I hate the most as they believe that Martial Arts is all about fighting and nothing else. There are many different reasons for people to learn a Martial Art, from fitness to expressing oneself to keeping the culture alive. Take a look at these guys bashing on schools that focus on forms over self-defense:

Self-defense is not the be-all and end-all of learning a Martial Art. If I wanted pure self-defense I could go to one of the thousands of specialist self-defense classes to do it. But I chose Traditional Martial Arts because I want more than that.

Really, the only fake Martial Arts schools are the ones that practice Chi throwing or EFO. I'm sure we've all seen this, where an instructor throws their chi at a willing student and knocks them over without touching them. They are the magicians of the Martial Arts community, but some take it too far and actually believe it, like this guy:

 

[Dirty Dog]

Just a reminder...

Fraudbusting is against the rules here. If this thread turns into fraudbusting (and there seems a strong possibility that it will), it will be shut down immediately and points infractions may be issued to individuals involved.

Consider yourselves warned...

 

[Jermaine Andre]

Hello everyone. I have noticed some skepticism regarding "Revealing Fake Martial Arts". I also noticed that some are making assumptions without first watching the video and/or researching who I am. I definitely would like to ask those who say, "Who am I" to give my opinion on Martial Art effectiveness, If someone of my world accomplishments doesn't have the right to voice his thoughts on what he thinks is and isn't real, then who does? Please tell me. Give me a list of what makes a "Martial Artist" credible to stand up and speak to others regarding what he or she feels is correct. And to the one who claimed that I am probably a "fake" I'll make it really easy on you. Google my name and see if the same person pops up delivering real Martial Arts techniques in the ring and the cage, worldwide on top named opponents. Or you can go watch the videos on my youtube page right here: Jermaine Andre. I know the title "Revealing Fake Martial Arts" may ruffle some feather but don't judge a book by the cover. The title is simply there to do as it did... Get your attention! This idea goes way further than any conclusion that could be drawn from the title. People are already posting videos and asking questions. Go to my Facebook and see it in action @: Jermaine Andre | Facebook Furthermore, if you take a couple of minutes to WATCH THE VIDEO you will see that it IS NOT my intention to "trash talk" any Martial Art. I am here to offer my expert thoughts on questioned Martial Arts techniques. I hope that some of you can see the value in this FREE information that I am giving away through my personal time without even asking you for your e-mail address. Everyone take care and keep it real.

 

[Tez3]

How much are you charging? No such thing as a free lunch.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Not those guys again.

 

[Flying Crane]

Hello everyone. I have noticed some skepticism regarding "Revealing Fake Martial Arts". I also noticed that some are making assumptions without first watching the video and/or researching who I am. I definitely would like to ask those who say, "Who am I" to give my opinion on Martial Art effectiveness, If someone of my world accomplishments doesn't have the right to voice his thoughts on what he thinks is and isn't real, then who does? Please tell me. Give me a list of what makes a "Martial Artist" credible to stand up and speak to others regarding what he or she feels is correct. And to the one who claimed that I am probably a "fake" I'll make it really easy on you. Google my name and see if the same person pops up delivering real Martial Arts techniques in the ring and the cage, worldwide on top named opponents. Or you can go watch the videos on my youtube page right here: Jermaine Andre. I know the title "Revealing Fake Martial Arts" may ruffle some feather but don't judge a book by the cover. The title is simply there to do as it did... Get your attention! This idea goes way further than any conclusion that could be drawn from the title. People are already posting videos and asking questions. Go to my Facebook and see it in action @: Jermaine Andre | Facebook Furthermore, if you take a couple of minutes to WATCH THE VIDEO you will see that it IS NOT my intention to "trash talk" any Martial Art. I am here to offer my expert thoughts on questioned Martial Arts techniques. I hope that some of you can see the value in this FREE information that I am giving away through my personal time without even asking you for your e-mail address. Everyone take care and keep it real.

I'll take a guess that this might be aimed at me, given what I said in post #4 here. Am I hitting the bull's eye?

Honestly, I don't care. I don't care about your credentials nor you accomplishments, nor your "expert thoughts" nor even who you are.

My real observation is simply that for every person out there, you could find SOMEBODY who says he sucks. So yeah, I poked a little fun. There is no ultimate authority. Thank you for sharing your opinion, but really it is no more than your opinion. Hey, if I had bothered to watch your video or research your background, I might even find some things to agree with you on. But i didn't and I won't. Meh.

And I sure as **** will not join you in a crusade to reveal "fake" martial arts, as the OP suggests you are asking for. Careful how you judge others based on your own standards, you might find yourself judged by the standards of others. There's that slippery slope.

 

[Buka]

The list of things I do not give a rat's ash about seems to grow with every passing year.

With a tip of the hat to Xue - but enough about me, what do you think of me?

 

[RTKDCMB]

What makes jermaine Andre the authority? Perhaps he is fake...

Slippery slope there.

He explains it here in this video on how you can participate and help with this project.

And we are not the martial arts police.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Take a look at these guys bashing on schools that focus on forms over self-defense:

Those guys are rather clueless.

 

[RTKDCMB]

I think that the distinction should be made between fake and not very good.

 

[Chris Parker]

Hmm...

I wanted to post this from my Master Chief Jermaine Andre. I enjoy reading many of the threads on this forum and I think this topic is also a good one that most everyone here might enjoy participating in.

Hi Jayson.

First off, I want to say that I'm going to be addressing Jermaine himself, rather than you… I'm figuring you're simply trying to bring some attention to your coach's videos and "request", and simply don't know any better than to believe what he's saying. Sadly, this is a little more complex than you may realise…

Secondly, you may have misread the forum if you think such ideas are particularly suited to this forum, as there is a rather strict "no fraud busting" policy in place here. In other words, you can't simply go around saying "so and so is fake", no matter how you feel about it, or how obvious it may be to you and others… while that can get difficult at times, especially when dealing with certain notorious members of the martial arts world, it really is a policy set for good reasons… so this will attempt to stay within those lines as much as possible.

Jermaine released a video about a year ago and I believe it was discussed on this forum about a question he gets asked quite often regarding martial arts and what is real or not real. Here is that video if you haven't seen it. It has been watched over 93,000 times on Youtube and generated a lot of comments and opinions.

Okay, so I'm pretty well known here for being less than subtle in my commentaries… but I'll simply say that this video gives me no indication that Jermaine is in any way suited to talk on this topic. Frankly, his grasp of even what separate martial arts are is incredibly basic, and amateuristic in his understanding of pretty much everything… including histories and methodologies.

Just the other day he decided to expand on this topic and is asking for others to help him in revealing fake martial arts and what works and what doesn't in different situations.

Yeah… he needs to understand the difference between "fake" and "applicable to the context being discussed or intended"… they're not the same thing… before anyone helps him in "revealing fake martial arts"… cause he doesn't know what "fake martial arts" are.

He explains it here in this video on how you can participate and help with this project.

Look, to be charitable here, all I got out of that is that Jermaine Andre is eminently lacking in ability to discuss, or more over, "reveal" what he's classing as "fake martial arts"… he has shown no evidence or indication of how he would even be able to quantify what is or is not "fake" (leaving off for the moment that what is being discussed isn't actually "fake martial arts", but more a question of valid application of the least of all aspects, the individual techniques). His comment that he has "used most of the martial arts that are out there" is patently absurd… frankly, I'd be rather amazed if Jermaine was even aware of as much as 5% of the range of martial arts that are out there… with many falling well outside his ken.

I look forward to learning new arts and moves that are effective in various situations.

Okay… why would you think that would happen here? More importantly, how did you think that would happen? The "moves" aren't the important thing… nor do that make the "art"…

Hello everyone. I have noticed some skepticism regarding "Revealing Fake Martial Arts".

Hi Jermaine, welcome aboard. Skepticism? Hmm… maybe. More realistically an upfront appraisal of whether or not there is any merit to making the claims that you do in your videos (to be able to even identify, let alone quantify and appraise aspects of things you obviously are lacking in awareness of).

I also noticed that some are making assumptions without first watching the video and/or researching who I am.

I watched the videos. I researched you. And, honestly, if you're going to start talking about "fake martial arts", I'd suggest a "glass houses" mindset here…

I definitely would like to ask those who say, "Who am I" to give my opinion on Martial Art effectiveness, If someone of my world accomplishments doesn't have the right to voice his thoughts on what he thinks is and isn't real, then who does?

Your accomplishments, for the record, mean absolutely nothing when it comes to assessing the technical methods of systems you so clearly have little to no awareness of, particularly when it comes to their usage in an ill-defined context (which is all it can ever be in these situations).

Please tell me. Give me a list of what makes a "Martial Artist" credible to stand up and speak to others regarding what he or she feels is correct.

Oh, you're fine saying what you feel is correct… but temper that with the understanding that you're coming from a rather limited, narrow, and skewed perspective. If you want to know who can voice their thoughts (if you, with your "accomplishments" are questioned on it), I'd suggest someone with a hoplological background, an academically honed grasp of combative methods through multiple contexts, cultures, and the development and implementation of such… you know… someone who actually knows the topic at hand.

And to the one who claimed that I am probably a "fake" I'll make it really easy on you. Google my name and see if the same person pops up delivering real Martial Arts techniques in the ring and the cage, worldwide on top named opponents. Or you can go watch the videos on my youtube page right here: Jermaine Andre.

So… I looked you up.

It seems that you're someone who got in trouble with the law early on (simply a statement, there is no judgement here), and, while you were there, managed to increase your sentence by a couple of years (or, at least, delay your release on essentially the eve of your parole… getting put in solitary instead). When back in general population, you started a group to train in martial arts techniques, as you'd been shown "a couple of moves from your brother and uncles, picking up others from movies and books… the majority, though, from trial and error in street fights" (paraphrasing)… you insisted, despite no real training, no real background, a highly romanticised and misguided fascination with "living your life by the Code of the Samurai" (to the point that you wear your hair up in a ponytail in fights because "that's how the samurai wore it"… uh, no, chonmage is very, very, VERY different to your imagination) you insisted that the other guys training with you all call you "sensei" (quick question, do you know what the word actually means?). Once out of prison, you embarked on your combat sports career, and were noted for your explosive aggression, as well as a rather unorthodox (mainly as it's largely unschooled) approach. Your fights tended to be either you beating the opponent early by overwhelming them (showing little of the restraint required to last longer rounds, which your opponent's were employing), or, if they went longer, losing to technically superior athletes. I do like the way you call yourself a "UFC Vet" at the end of your video… you had one UFC fight, which you lost… still, that's one more than me, so kudos to you for getting there in the first place. There is, however, little to nothing on any formal training you've ever had, save some mention of a kickboxing coach who started working with you after you'd begun your career…

(EDIT: For reference, here is the source of the majority of the above: Jermaine Andre brings the Code of the Samurai to cage fighting.)

So why is this important? Well, your topic is "fake martial arts"… although you've managed to mis-apply the term completely. There is nothing at all about "fake martial arts" in anything associated with the videos you posted, or the (so far) only two video "questions" on your Facebook page (one on board breaking, one on hand wrapping… hmm). What you're actually trying to address is the concept of effective martial arts methodologies and techniques… which is very different from "fake". "Fake" martial arts are systems whose history and claims have been fabricated… people claiming to have learnt from some mysterious foreign person, whose name sounds suspiciously like an item from a menu in a Chinese restaurant (although it's said he's Japanese… or Korean…)… someone like Ashida Kim. Kim (real name Chris Hunter, although he has a number of other alias') claims to teach a school of Koga Ryu Ninjitsu… but, of course, his background in martial arts is even less legitimate than my cats. His videos are hysterically funny… even more so when you consider that he is completely sincere in his delusions.

But, to bring this back to you… you've presented yourself (in your videos, and on this forum) as being someone who has the insight to tell the "real" from the "fake" when it comes to martial techniques… you also have claimed to have trained in multiple systems (in your second video), saying "You know, I've had some experience in everything, from striking, uh, takedowns and throws, grappling, even wresting and boxing", then even more fleshed out in your first video, saying: "You know, as a practitioner of traditional martial arts, karate, kung fu (quick question, as there's no such single art as "kung fu", what system did you mean there? Choy Lay Fut? Wing Chun? Bagua? Xingi? Hung Gar? Just curious…), tae kwon do, Jeet Kune Do (sorry, just another question… you're classifying JKD as a "traditional" martial art? Really? As opposed to, well, every actual practitioner of the system, including it's founder, who created JKD as an answer to what he saw as "the classical mess"? Just checking…) and as a practitioner of MMA Mixed Martial Arts, as a practitioner of muay Thai kickboxing, boxing, umm… jujitsu, Russian sambo, Judo (Judo isn't traditional? Hmm… can you explain the kata then? Is the Koshiki no Kata a modern thing, what with the armour and all? How about the sword defences in the Kime no Kata?)… you know, I wrestled in High School… as a practitioner of all of these fighting styles…"

So… the question is, to what level did you train in any of these systems? What rank do you hold? How long did you study, say, karate? What system? How about Judo? What Dan grade are you from the Kodokan? Or is all of this from reading books and watching movies?

This is where we start to get into the issues of "fake martial arts", or, more realistically, fraudulent claims in the martial arts… you continue to talk about how, with all these systems, you can use a move from any one of them when you need it… which, honestly, simply compounds the idea (in my head) that you simply haven't actually studied (officially and formally) most of these arts… or, if you did (it would be for a very short time), you missed entirely the idea of training a system, and focused only on learning moves… which is about as beginner an approach as you can have.

I know the title "Revealing Fake Martial Arts" may ruffle some feather but don't judge a book by the cover. The title is simply there to do as it did... Get your attention! This idea goes way further than any conclusion that could be drawn from the title. People are already posting videos and asking questions. Go to my Facebook and see it in action @: Jermaine Andre | Facebook

I went there. There were two questions. Neither had anything to do with "fake martial arts", or anything else other than asking about some practices that you had little insight to offer on. You were a bit better on the hand wraps, but honestly, I wasn't really sold on your answer for a few reasons… mainly based around a lack of understanding of the differing contexts.

Furthermore, if you take a couple of minutes to WATCH THE VIDEO you will see that it IS NOT my intention to "trash talk" any Martial Art.

No, it's your intention to put yourself forward, with minimal actual education, as some kind of knowledgeable source.

I am here to offer my expert thoughts on questioned Martial Arts techniques.

That's the problem, Jermaine… you're far from "expert".

I hope that some of you can see the value in this FREE information that I am giving away through my personal time without even asking you for your e-mail address. Everyone take care and keep it real.

Sadly, all I can see happening is that some poor, clueless people who like the idea of talking with a real "UFC Vet" to get their information, get the impression that you know what you're talking about, and are a credible source. All that does is further the misunderstandings and poor appreciation of the practices of many systems… free or not.

Look, Jermaine, you're a talented guy when it comes to violence… you have a real natural flair for it, which you exploited well during your career. Well done to you for that. And huge kudos for getting your life turned around from the mid-late 90's… it's a testament to the drive you have. Your passion is also not to be underestimated… however, frankly, your experience is largely in the small arena of combat sports (as well as some experience in what we may call "street level violence"… on both ends, it seems). And the martial arts (as an area of study) are a much larger one than you seem to be able to speak on with any authority. I would, if I was to offer advice, suggest rethinking exactly what you can offer… your story can be quite inspirational, so your ability to act as a motivational role model would be great (and, it seems, is a role you are very well suited to, and apply with great success at your gym, based on your Facebook page)… and, if you were to want to present a series of videos offering advice on combat sports, training for the ring, and so on, I can see that having a fair amount of value. Here, I feel you've over-reached your knowledge base, though…

 

[Flying Crane]

Thanks Chris, for taking the time to do that for which I have no patience.