Real aikido street fight

[RoninX]

Oh, and by the way: The whole Bas Rutten Self Defense stuff is more of a comical stuff. He doesn´t take it seriously, neither should you.

 

[K-man]

Oh, and by the way: The whole Bas Rutten Self Defense stuff is more of a comical stuff. He doesn´t take it seriously, neither should you.

????????

Take your hand off it!

Bas Ruten's self defence is hardly comical. Where exactly is the part I should have laughed? I must have lost my sense of humour.

Not only are you obviously a martial artist without peer, but you could also be a comedian.

 

[K-man]

I posted:

I take exception to your continuous put down of other styles. You seem to be the master of the insult. As to unarmed SD against a knife. If your assailant has any knowledge of knife fighting there is a fair chance that most people will die and certainly you will be cut. No MA including Krav and Systema will guarantee you safety against a knife attack. Why pick aikido as the MA that is ineffective? At least Aikido regularly trains against knife attack.

Your reply:

I´m sorry if for you this is an insult, but you can´t expect to come to a discussion forum without having people disagreeing with you. I think your martial art is ineffective, and until now i haven´t seen proof of otherwise. Deal with it! Thousands and thousands and thousands of people feel the same way. I´m not insulting you more than you are insulting me.

AND ...

Well, if that´s an insult to you, i admit i prefer to insult you than to insult my intelligence, pretending to believe in such a non sense. Lol. 95% of the time? Now you´re just going wild.

The main problem, as I see it, you have absolutely no intention to enter into ANY discussion as you ignore all questions and just make statements with no relevence to the post.

"You can´t expect to come to a discussion forum without having people disagreeing with you."

True, but in most cases we can discuss the pros and cons in an intelligent and civil manner. You seem to have a closed mind.

"I´m sorry if for you this is an insult .... I think your martial art is ineffective .... Deal with it! ..... I´m not insulting you more than you are insulting me."

I'm sure some of the others on this forum might disagree!

But, thank you for your apology. It is obviously most sincere and I accept it for what it is worth. :asian:

"Well, if that´s an insult to you, i admit i prefer to insult you than to insult my intelligence ..."

As you have adequately demonstrated, there is very little to insult! :asian:

 

[RoninX]

????????

Take your hand off it!

Bas Ruten's self defence is hardly comical. Where exactly is the part I should have laughed? I must have lost my sense of humour.

Not only are you obviously a martial artist without peer, but you could also be a comedian.

1- Bas Rutten has the instincts, strenght, speed, guts and overall MA experience to pull many of those things off.

2- Wrist locks doesn´t equal to Aikido. Many arts have wrist locks, and im pretty sure most of what Bas teaches in his "instructional" videos doesn´t have that much to do with Aikido.

3- In some situations a transitory wrist lock can help you giving you an opportunity to strike your opponent. But, once again, this has very little to do with the way most Aikido dojo teach it, and i´m pretty sure Bas won´t gonna tell you to grab someone´s wrist while the guy is trying to punch you, something that is teached in Aikido, because that won´t work.

4- Bas Rutten said "some" of the things could work, wich is very differently from saying it´s effective. Plus, by the way he says it, he doesn´t seem to have any kind of experience on it. He is just talking hypothetically. Learn the difference.

5- "Some things might work" doesn´t equal to "this is an effective martial art". Learn the difference.

6- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNXRInrSSVU&feature=related
Bas Rutten is a funny guy and likes to Joke. Many things he shows on his videos don´t have the purpose to teach you how to defend yourself, but to entertain you.

 

[St Matt]

Ok. Because that´s what i´ve always saw Aikidoka doing: Catching arms in movement. Your style must be different.

And that proves you have no idea what you are talking about!!

The next time you find yourself sparring with an aikidoka, constantly trying to hit him in the face, smuggly thinking 'he will never catch my wrist'. Don't be too shocked when his irimi-nage takes you clean off your feet without even going near your wrist and then pins you to the floor.

It does seem you are fishing and trying to get a bite now but seriously if you honestly think aikido is just catching fists and twisting wrists your making yourself look foolish. Don't knock other peoples arts, who knows maybe one day when that riot kicks off you may be glad of the help of a passing aikidoka. You just don't know!

 

[K-man]

1- Bas Rutten has the instincts, strenght, speed, guts and overall MA experience to pull many of those things off.

That's very perceptive of you. If I thought for a minute that he wasn't a very capable martial artist I probably wouldn't pay as much attention to his methods that I do.

FYI ... a bit of his CV.

TKD 2nd dan, Kyokushin karate 2nd dan.
Muay Thai professional career. Fought 16 times and won the first 14 by KO, 13 in the first round.

MMA career. Fought 33 times for 28 wins, 4 losses & 1 draw. 12 by KO, 13 by submission and 3 by decision.


I agree with you, it seems he does have the instincts, strength, speed, guts and overall MA experience to pull many of those things off.

2- Wrist locks doesn´t equal to Aikido. Many arts have wrist locks, and im pretty sure most of what Bas teaches in his "instructional" videos doesn´t have that much to do with Aikido.

Let's look at wrist locks, arm bars chokes etc. We find then in Judo, JuJutsu, Ninjutsu, karate, BJJ, TCMAs, probably a dozen or more MAs and surprise, surprise Aikido. Where did they come from? Well basically they possibly all came from "old style Japanese Jujutsu which had developed over the centuries. Some claim they came from China but the source is really irrelevant. The truth is THEY ARE ALL THE SAME. Isn't that a coincidence? The human body moves in a limited number of ways and these techniques were developed to work off those moves. Another strange thing .. the old systems included atemi as an integral part. Daito Ryu was started by a real bad *** called Takeda Sokaku. He taught Ueshiba to a high level before Ueshiba developed Aikido.

Isn't it strange then, that the locks, holds and throws work so well in submission MMA, Judo and JuJutsu, BJJ and even karate, but they don't work in Aikido.

3- In some situations a transitory wrist lock can help you giving you an opportunity to strike your opponent. But, once again, this has very little to do with the way most Aikido dojo teach it, and i´m pretty sure Bas won´t gonna tell you to grab someone´s wrist while the guy is trying to punch you, something that is teached in Aikido, because that won´t work.

Personally I haven't seen it teached in Aikido, EVER. Why on earth would you have a transitory wrist lock? If I get a lock in training it ends in submission. If I got a lock in a real fight it would probably end in joint destruction. I don't have a problem admitting that catching punches is a low probability activity. That's not the way you normally get hold of someone's wrist. You get holds at times when you can, you don't set out to get a hold. You do hit but you hit BEFORE the lock. That's often the set up. You might continue to hit after depending on the situation. And, I have to admit you're right again ... I'm also pretty sure Bas won't tell me to grab someones wrist while the guy is trying to punch me. But after he's tried to punch me, then I have a chance to capture a wrist if it is available.

4- Bas Rutten said "some" of the things could work, wich is very differently from saying it´s effective. Plus, by the way he says it, he doesn´t seem to have any kind of experience on it. He is just talking hypothetically. Learn the difference.

Thank you so much for the lesson. Truly, I will try to learn the difference. Now let's look again at what Bas actually said, and remember, it is in the context of cage fighting.

" .... and, I'm sure there's moves that really work at close distance like those wrist locks, ... of course they've got moves that work, ..." Then he goes on about not being able to catch punches and against MMA fighters that would be pretty impossible." ... and that's why you don't see many aikido guys in the cage. They'd have to really change their style ... at close distance they might pull off some submissions but otherwise it's going to be very difficult."

Not quite what you said he said, but hey ... it's close, right?

And of course, Bas wouldn't have any idea about aikido would he? But, then he commented on something he doesn't understand? Hypothetically of course. And he actually said aikido has got moves that work, and he managed to win 13 MMA bouts by submission. Boy, am I confused!

5- "Some things might work" doesn´t equal to "this is an effective martial art". Learn the difference.

Yes master. If only I had your understanding I too could be a great martial artist. :asian:

6- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNXRInrSSVU&feature=related
Bas Rutten is a funny guy and likes to Joke. Many things he shows on his videos don´t have the purpose to teach you how to defend yourself, but to entertain you.

Of course! How could I have been so stupid? Bas is a comedian like youself. :asian:

 

[K-man]

We are talking about Aikido. If you are also a Karateka, you don´t exactly fall into that category. Of course, if i train 10 martial arts, there are tons of things that i can do. But would i do those things if i only trained Aikido? I´m all for cross training, but here we´re talking about Aikido.


If a wrist throw was really an effective technique, you would see it being used more often in MMA fights. A technique is a technique. You don´t twist somebody´s wrist in a cage, but you expect that to work in the street, against a thug. That´s your mentality. Nice.

If you are training expecting to control a resistant opponent under a real street scenario you should also train under a resistant opponent in your dojo. It´s basic logic. There´s a world of differences between applying something to someone who resist you and applying something to someone who doesn´t resist you. Isn´t even close.


And if you are not sparring at all you will still not doing all those things. Sparing helps to develop your instincts and teaches you how to adapt a technique under different circunstances. It teaches you the feeling of being resisted, and makes you try to adapt in order to overcome that.

Yes, you can grab your opponent´s balls. So what? The benefits of sparring are still there, and it´s better do it than not do it at all.

A Judoka spars without hitting the opponent, but their throws are still effective in situations where strikes are allowed.

Define "i train". Do you actually make them do that, or you only tell them to do that? The difference is huge, you know?

No Martial Art who defines itself as "effective" should presume all people they could face are untrained thugs. There are many trained people walking around doing ****. Martial Arts are very popular. "Ok, this is a good martial art, but it will only work against untrained guys. Against trained thugs you will get your *** kicked. Who wants to sign?" Yes, very appealing.

I generally train to be able to fight any person, martial artist or not. That´s effectiveness. A good martial art will give you a chance of defending yourself against any person. A real martial art would do good against a thug and against a real martial artist.


If you don´t spar that kind of self defense, you will never gonna be able to use it successfully. That´s for sure. Send a mail to Bas Rutten and ask him if you should spar for self defense. You will see the answer :ultracool

You obviously didn't understand one word of what I wrote because not one of your responses relates to the issue you were responding to.

Please reread and try again! I'm not going to respond to this post! :shrug:

 

[Yari]

We are talking about Aikido. If you are also a Karateka, you don´t exactly fall into that category. Of course, if i train 10 martial arts, there are tons of things that i can do. But would i do those things if i only trained Aikido? I´m all for cross training, but here we´re talking about Aikido.

I train Aikido, and we train to break necks, arms, legs, backs, teeth, pock out eyes, ripe your hair off, stamp on your feet, bit, spit, throw, hit, punch, elbow, handplam, kick, knee and soo on, and it's all a part old school aikido...

If a wrist throw was really an effective technique, you would see it being used more often in MMA fights. A technique is a technique. You don´t twist somebody´s wrist in a cage, but you expect that to work in the street, against a thug.

Wrist locks are effektive, and if grabing each other on the wrist was more effetiv, you would se that in MMA. But since techniques against wrist grabs are effektiv, youd be very stupid to try and grab on.

A Judoka spars without hitting the opponent, but their throws are still effective in situations where strikes are allowed.

Ohh by the way, Aikido has "judo" throws too.. even the most basic aikido dojos I've practice with do them.

/Terje

 

[MJS]

Admin Note:

Just an FYI....RoninX is no longer a member here. That being said, he will no longer be able to reply to any threads here.

 

[Aiki Lee]

Was that your call? Do I owe you a drink?

 

[Xue Sheng]

Admin Note:

Just an FYI....RoninX is no longer a member here. That being said, he will no longer be able to reply to any threads here.

Well in that case all I have to say is :wavey:

 

[Yari]

Admin Note:

Just an FYI....RoninX is no longer a member here. That being said, he will no longer be able to reply to any threads here.

Thank you.

 

[K-man]

Admin Note:

Just an FYI....RoninX is no longer a member here. That being said, he will no longer be able to reply to any threads here.

May I add my thanks for your stopping the guy and also thank you for cutting me some slack while I was trying to make sense of his nonsense (pun intended). :asian:

 

[chinto]

interesting, but obviously torri and uki were training together. that was NOT a street fight..

for one thing i think the uki would have been broken and such at the end if it had been a real one... or at least hurting a lot more.

 

[TheArtofDave]

Wow I'm happy to see that ignorance to that level is not tolerated. Also very happy to see Aikido is indeed a very effective art but then again I knew it was because of having a couple of friends train in it. Not close friends. More like acquaintances. Any advice that can be given to a soon to be new student of Aikido? I'm likely to become a purist if I fall in love with the art after trying some classes.

 

[K-man]

Any advice that can be given to a soon to be new student of Aikido? I'm likely to become a purist if I fall in love with the art after trying some classes.

Go to class with an open mind, don't expect to master the techniques any time soon and enjoy the journey. :asian:

 

[Aiki Lee]

Aikido training is an exercise in patience. In order to be good at it you must repeat seemingly simple actions over and over and over again. Don't slack on your ukemi.

 

[TheArtofDave]

Thank you for the advice. I will be very patient and enjoy my journey whenever it comes