Why Aikido is mistaken as an art of street fighting?

jujutsu_indonesia

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I realized that many people has mistaken Aikido as an art of street fighting.

That is very different with what I have experienced from a senior Aikido teacher here (Mr. Huang Hexiang, student of Kochi Eiichi sensei and Somemiya sensei).

Mr. Huang, who is now 60++ years old, said that Aikido is the art of NOT fighting like street fighters.

It is the art of harmonizing your movements with your opponent's. How to not get hit, not by hitting your opponent harder, but by your opponent by not get in his line of attack. How to not be grabbed by your opponent, not by grabbing him first, but by not opposing his strong line. It is the art of making yourself safe by not fighting your opponent's fight. That's why taisabaki is very important in Aikido.

And, most important, is how to show your love to your fellow humans, even evil ones, by defeating him without killing him or causing too much injury, thus allowing him to life and realize the errors of his way.

In short, Aikido, at least the version taught to me back then before I joined Jujutsu, is the art of love and harmony.

But today I see people who thinks that Aikido is a street fighting art, the art of how to win against many opponent in a streetfight. How this happened? Could anybody tell me?
 

Flying Crane

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Any art that professes to teach effective techniques and tactics to defend against attackers, is by default a "street fighting" art. After all, where else but on the street would the average person be attacked? And by "Street" i mean really, any place where you might encounter individuals who mean to do you harm, i.e. the "real world", not a controlled environment like the dojo.

By contrast, an art that no longer attempts to provide solutions to realistic, modern combat situations is not a street fighting art. Examples might be the various swordsmanship arts and projectile arts like bow and arrow or javelin. While these arts might develop strengths and capabilities that might have some use in a real fight, the techniques they train are not directly realistic in a modern sense, to fighting. These weapons are archaic and no longer in use in a practical sense, and the arts are practiced primarily to keep a piece of history alive, as well as for other, less tangible physical, emotional, and mental benefits.

Regardless of what philosophy an art follows, if the techniqes are supposed to work against real attacks, it becomes a street fighting art. If aikido is taught with the purpose of providing an effective method of self defense, then it is a street fighting art.
 

theletch1

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There is a sign over the front door of my dojo that reads "Where self defense is a science, not a sideline." Self defense, as has already been expressed, will more than likely be used "on the street". Aikido does not teach one to fight like a street fighter. It teaches one to fight like an aikido-ka using blending and the harmony of motion to defend oneself. As for all the esoteric "love, harmony and peace on earth" stuff that SOME dojos really push...well, it depends on the dojo/instructor. I once heard aikido technique explained as instant kharma. The more energy an attacker throws at me the more pain is instantly returned. Destroying a joint or giving someone a spiral fracture from wrist to elbow doesn't sound like an art that is too soft or not street oriented. Don't let yourself get fooled into thinking that because aikido doesn't use direct, line of attack, force on force defense that it isn't decent for the street.

I guess another take on it would be that it is, indeed, not an art of street fighting but rather an art of street defence.
 

MartialIntent

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Flying Crane said:
Any art that professes to teach effective techniques and tactics to defend against attackers, is by default a "street fighting" art. After all, where else but on the street would the average person be attacked? And by "Street" i mean really, any place where you might encounter individuals who mean to do you harm, i.e. the "real world", not a controlled environment like the dojo.

By contrast, an art that no longer attempts to provide solutions to realistic, modern combat situations is not a street fighting art. Examples might be the various swordsmanship arts and projectile arts like bow and arrow or javelin. While these arts might develop strengths and capabilities that might have some use in a real fight, the techniques they train are not directly realistic in a modern sense, to fighting. These weapons are archaic and no longer in use in a practical sense, and the arts are practiced primarily to keep a piece of history alive, as well as for other, less tangible physical, emotional, and mental benefits.

Regardless of what philosophy an art follows, if the techniqes are supposed to work against real attacks, it becomes a street fighting art. If aikido is taught with the purpose of providing an effective method of self defense, then it is a street fighting art.
I couldn't agree more! Let's face it, any art can be a "street fighting" art if that's what the practitioner wants to make it. If you focus on that single goal [multiple armed attackers on some dimly lit street corner] and train for that situation, then a great street combatant you will undoubtedly make.

True, Aikido is the art of harmony - the ultimate aim being to defend yourself in a way that neither you or your attacker are harmed. But does that mean it's ineffective in a real world altercation? Hardly - it simply means that conflicts are concluded in a different manner than with other arts.

I say, show me an art that can't make a street-fighter out of it's students and I'll show you something that's NOT a martial art. All arts have central elements of self-defense as part of their history and evolution. But to be honest, if street-fighting is a student's ultimate aim, truthfully I'd probably suggest they hook up instead with one of the many, many "street lethal arts" schools out there.

Respects!
 

MA-Caver

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Heh, Steven Segal needs to read this thread... particularly on the lines that speak about being a loving human being... something he could've/should've considered when he was married to the lovely Kelly LeBrock.

But I agree with Flying Crane, if Aikido is place in a "real-world" evironment i.e. you are walking to your car from the theater with your date and two or three guys come out and jump you with the purpose of taking your money and your car and you use what you learn from Aikido then by all means it's a street fighting art.
It's probably more harmonic than other arts, and so forth... but like he said, any art that can be applied and used out side the dojo is a "street-fighting art".

:asian:
 
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jujutsu_indonesia

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theletch1 said:
I guess another take on it would be that it is, indeed, not an art of street fighting but rather an art of street defence.

Wow, thank you all for the clarification. I think I like theletch1's answer the most. It's a street DEFENSE art, not a street fighting art. Very nice way of describing it! :asian:
 

bluemtn

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I think all the posts here are more accurate than what I've heard going around. They definitely answered a few questions I had regarding aikido! Great thread!
 

Jenna

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jujutsu_indonesia said:
Wow, thank you all for the clarification. I think I like theletch1's answer the most. It's a street DEFENSE art, not a street fighting art. Very nice way of describing it! :asian:
Hey Denny :)

I read through the posts here and I wonder are we saying that Aikido would NOT withstand a bout against a "street fighter" and that's an awful term I know, but you know what I mean. Let me turn it around and ask would Aikido cut it against one of these fabled street fighters?

Personally I am happy to take my Aikido anywhere though obviously not seeking trouble but I mean where trouble finds me I am happy to have and use my Aikido. I do not feel the need to top up my Aikido skills for a street environment as I have no intention to become an attacker but rather defend against attack and keep the attacker and his strikes out of range until I can enter and close him down.

Anyone tell me they are NOT confident in their Aikido against whomever on the "street" ?

Yr most obdt hmble srvt :)
Jenna
 
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jujutsu_indonesia

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Jenna said:
Hey Denny :)

I read through the posts here and I wonder are we saying that Aikido would NOT withstand a bout against a "street fighter" and that's an awful term I know, but you know what I mean. Let me turn it around and ask would Aikido cut it against one of these fabled street fighters?

Personally I am happy to take my Aikido anywhere though obviously not seeking trouble but I mean where trouble finds me I am happy to have and use my Aikido. I do not feel the need to top up my Aikido skills for a street environment as I have no intention to become an attacker but rather defend against attack and keep the attacker and his strikes out of range until I can enter and close him down.

Not only Aikido, but all Aiki arts including the Aiki Jujutsu that I learned will not make us "Street fighters". Simply put, Aiki Jujutsu/Aikido is Peace Maker art not Peace Disturber art. It's defensive art, not offensive art. We can use it against inexperienced streetfighters, NOT to become streetfighters.

To become streetfighters, we have to become immoral, aggresive animals with no regards to the safety of other human beings. On the other hand, Aikido/Aiki Jujutsu teach us to become forgiving human beings who only break bones when necessary.

Aggressive arts such as MMA (Krav maga+boxing+wrestling+Brazil Jiujitsu+kickboxing) are more suited to those wanting to become brutish streetfighters. Also, don't forget to take lots of testosterone-based chemicals to bulk up & build some muscles (extra power will help, and extra muscles are good for its intimidation factors), and watch some snuff films to erase any traces of mercy and human decency.
 

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jujutsu_indonesia said:
Not only Aikido, but all Aiki arts including the Aiki Jujutsu that I learned will not make us "Street fighters". Simply put, Aiki Jujutsu/Aikido is Peace Maker art not Peace Disturber art. It's defensive art, not offensive art. We can use it against inexperienced streetfighters, NOT to become streetfighters.

To become streetfighters, we have to become immoral, aggresive animals with no regards to the safety of other human beings. On the other hand, Aikido/Aiki Jujutsu teach us to become forgiving human beings who only break bones when necessary.

Aggressive arts such as MMA (Krav maga+boxing+wrestling+Brazil Jiujitsu+kickboxing) are more suited to those wanting to become brutish streetfighters. Also, don't forget to take lots of testosterone-based chemicals to bulk up & build some muscles (extra power will help, and extra muscles are good for its intimidation factors), and watch some snuff films to erase any traces of mercy and human decency.

:erg:

:rofl:
 

MartialIntent

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Jenna said:
Hey Denny :)

I read through the posts here and I wonder are we saying that Aikido would NOT withstand a bout against a "street fighter" and that's an awful term I know, but you know what I mean. Let me turn it around and ask would Aikido cut it against one of these fabled street fighters?

Personally I am happy to take my Aikido anywhere though obviously not seeking trouble but I mean where trouble finds me I am happy to have and use my Aikido. I do not feel the need to top up my Aikido skills for a street environment as I have no intention to become an attacker but rather defend against attack and keep the attacker and his strikes out of range until I can enter and close him down.

Anyone tell me they are NOT confident in their Aikido against whomever on the "street" ?

Yr most obdt hmble srvt :)
Jenna
Jenna,
Personally I would have no problem as you say, taking my Aikido with me wherever I go and be confident of it as the need arises. Does this make it a "streetfighting" art? Well yes and no. Someone made the point that it was a street DEFENSE art and I think that's a good description because while Aikido will serve you as well as ANY art - and I'll defend that one to the hilt! it is still not an attacking art which I believe is somehow implied in the term streetfighting. If that's what you're saying then I believe we're on the same page.

btw, it's good to have you here stirring up these older threads!

Respects!
 

Makalakumu

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jujutsu_indonesia said:
Not only Aikido, but all Aiki arts including the Aiki Jujutsu that I learned will not make us "Street fighters". Simply put, Aiki Jujutsu/Aikido is Peace Maker art not Peace Disturber art. It's defensive art, not offensive art. We can use it against inexperienced streetfighters, NOT to become streetfighters.

To become streetfighters, we have to become immoral, aggresive animals with no regards to the safety of other human beings. On the other hand, Aikido/Aiki Jujutsu teach us to become forgiving human beings who only break bones when necessary.

Aggressive arts such as MMA (Krav maga+boxing+wrestling+Brazil Jiujitsu+kickboxing) are more suited to those wanting to become brutish streetfighters. Also, don't forget to take lots of testosterone-based chemicals to bulk up & build some muscles (extra power will help, and extra muscles are good for its intimidation factors), and watch some snuff films to erase any traces of mercy and human decency.

This post addresses the different types of violence that MAists can train for. The most common type of violence that MAist train for is Military. Soldiers are "martial artists" learning the modern the modern way of fighting.

Civilian defense is different from this because the intent is just to survive an attack. Not kill or dominate your opponent. Many arts can fall into this catagory, for example, Karate, Aikido, and Jujutsu.

Another type of violence is that which is used to dominate another individual. Boxing, Wrestling, Judo, Tae Kwon Do, Muay Thai, Brazillian Juijutsu, MMA, etc. Often, these arts can be used for self defense, but that isn't their modus operandi.

An Aikidoka, IMO, isn't going to test their stuff "in the ring" because they know that their stuff isn't designed for that. If you can use your Aikido to release someone's grip and run away, then you've used your Aikido to "defend" yourself.
 

theletch1

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upnorthkyosa said:
An Aikidoka, IMO, isn't going to test their stuff "in the ring" because they know that their stuff isn't designed for that. If you can use your Aikido to release someone's grip and run away, then you've used your Aikido to "defend" yourself.

That is a brilliant obsevation! Too often we get caught up in the technique as a be all and end all and forget that the true target is simply getting away from your attacker safely.:asian:
 

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Flying Crane said:
After all, where else but on the street would the average person be attacked? And by "Street" i mean really, any place where you might encounter individuals who mean to do you harm, i.e. the "real world", not a controlled environment like the dojo.


What!?!

So my plan of just walking on the sidewalks does NOT guarantee my safety? All this time attacks only happened on the STREET! I thought for sure I was safe if I stayed on the sidewalks...

That's it! I'm getting 3 guns, a couple of back up knifes, a big flashlight and a lot of batteries...


:D
 

Jenna

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Andrew Green said:
What!?!

So my plan of just walking on the sidewalks does NOT guarantee my safety? All this time attacks only happened on the STREET! I thought for sure I was safe if I stayed on the sidewalks...

That's it! I'm getting 3 guns, a couple of back up knifes, a big flashlight and a lot of batteries...


:D
Has no one put those "hover scooters" from Back to the Future into production yet? Get one of those babies and never go near the "street" again, and therefore live in total safety, LOL.

But yeah, leave your fists at home - just always make certain you got your original maglite to hand or better still, the new for '06 maglite with the optional bayonet attachment, ha! :D

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
 

Hand Sword

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Andrew Green said:
What!?!

So my plan of just walking on the sidewalks does NOT guarantee my safety? All this time attacks only happened on the STREET! I thought for sure I was safe if I stayed on the sidewalks...

That's it! I'm getting 3 guns, a couple of back up knifes, a big flashlight and a lot of batteries...


:D

That's the way! Make sure to keep those extra batteries in a sock, so you can swing away!
 
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