Rapper: Blacks 'cheered when 9-11 happened'

[Brother John]

I'm genuinely curious about how you came up with this notion. Rap and hip-hop culture are blamed for ALL KINDS of things, from violence against women to the war on drugs to gang violence disrespect for our elders to...

Yes, and it's fully EARNED a great deal of that blame.
It's a matter of
"If the shoe fits..."
NOT all rap or hip-hop. There are a ton of very good rappers and hip-hop artists that deserve credit for doing the opposite of what the 'others' do. It just so happens that a good portion of the most popular artists DO deserve the credit for the problem.
Gang crap sells right now.
Violence sells.
Drugs & sex sells and sells. (in any market, every bit as much as rap/hip-hop)
Hate sells.
Period

Your Brother
John

 

[michaeledward]

Geez louise, I love capitalism. Ever' damn thing's for sale--race, hip-hop, criticism, the so-called revolution.

And I love patriarchy--watching guys slap dicks over mere politics.

Und so weiter, let's hear it for blaming rappers for all the problems of our society. Me, I was raised on Tennessee Ernie Ford, country & western...drinking, fightin' violence, anger, and D-I-V-O-R-C-E wall to wall.

But hey, drop kick me Jesus through the goalposts of life. My achy-breaky heart can't stand it. Bring me whisky for my men, beer for my horses.

Robert, I love this .... you have to be careful, though, when you choose to identify youself with such, shall we say, common cultural references. Some of us may actually understand what you are talking about. It's always more fun when you send us to the woodshed of 'Google'.

 

[loki09789]

All commentary on KRS-One's statements aside, I think it's best not to claim to understand hip-hop if you don't.

You probably don't mean it to come off this way, but attempting to link rap to Beat poetry is a particularly ethnocentric way to try and claim credit for its origins. Hip-hop has its roots far deeper in dancehall Reggae and jazz.

The so-called "kill da Man" rap is also usually misunderstood, and is primarily a commercial form of hip-hop that appeals as widely to suburban white kids as it does to anyone else. It's only one small subgenre of the art-form as a whole.

Wasn't claiming that it was THE origin, but it was ONE of the influences considering that both Rap and Beat poetry shared a geographical/community location (cities) of origin. I don't claim to understand hip hop as much as understand that it is a valid art form that has artistic practitioners and 'corporate practitioners' and everyone in between just like any other entertainment/art form will.

 

[loki09789]

Well, that's why I said I was stunned...


a positive role model is a positive role model. I'm not sure what you are implying. Oh wait, yes I am - people who listen to hip-hop are of low character. that's your prejudice.

+++++++


.

No that is your prejudice and insecurity talking. I am saying quite clearly now that within the CURRENT hip hop/RAP entertainment community the idea that standing out as a positive role model isn't that hard given that:

Guys like ICE T show up on HBO documentary specials as an admitted PIMP who keeps/kept a stable of prostitutes even after he had money enough/fame enough not to have to do that out of money desparation.

Guys like TUPAC become 'fallen heroes' within the RAP community when they - and those who shot them - were embroiled in a EAST WEST rap/drug/gang reputation war

Guys like Snoop are STILL openly using illegal substances as 'soft' as Marijuana and harder as well.

NO ONE in entertainment that has a clear record of this type of behavior should be used as a role model for anyone else.

MY POINT was that KRS didn't have to do much compared to these types of more common Rap figures to stand out as a 'positive Role MODEL.'

Mos Def and Russel Simmons would be more credible IMO as hip hop positive role models.

 

[raedyn]

-Or ya know, the total lack of education concerning whats right and wrong, good and bad behavior. Blame video games, music videos, violent movies...well, I think there is a formula here. Good parenting plus growing kids equal good citizens. (Yes, I realize thats really general.) There are a lot more variables that will show up on a case by case basis. Take good parenting out of the equation, and add violent games, movies, music, etc, plus growing kids which equals ???

Good parenting is vital, yes. But other influences can undo some of what good parenting has done. Schooling, peers, TV do have an impact. You need good teachers, too. Maybe part of good parenting is saying 'No' and filtering some of those other influences out? Turn off the TV, monitor internet usage, critically discuss music lyrics, that sort of thing....

(I don't think I'm particularly coherent this evening, but yr all intelligent folks, so you'll figure it out)

 

[auxprix]

You know, it's one thing to get publicity by showing a boob at the halftime show or something, but this is just wrong. Sad thing is, my sister teaches at an inner city school in Cincinnati (it's pretty bad) and she said that when the planes hit the WTC, some of the kids started laughing and thought it was cool. Of course, she got upset and tried to explain the situation to them, but I guess they just didn't get it.

One of my Japanese host brothers tells me that he thinks it's cool too. If I knew somebody who died in the tragedy, I would've probably slapped him on the back of the head. It took all my strength not to tell him it would be like calling the Hiroshima blast 'cool'. Maybe I should have, though.

 

[GAB]

Hi Brother John,

When you say Parents, I get a feeling you are talking....Genes. Is that a fair statement? Is Biologial very important? The State seems to think so, I think so.
Why? Because the children are turned back to the biological parent. (It is your problem good or bad).
More parents are being put into jail for the trouble the children are causing as far as crime is concerned. Is that fair? Yes and No...
I think 16 is a fair time to treat them as adults, some even earlier...
Enviromental is very important also, peer pressure, the saying, 'you can take the person out of the neighborhood but you can not take the neighborhood out of the person',.

Some don't stand a chance at leading a normal upstanding small town life of, 'do unto others' etc....I think peer presure in todays youth is a terrible burden...Do unto others before, they do you... is more like it.

How about the statement, 'that it takes the whole neighborhood to raise a child'. I see that as good and bad in todays living standards.

I believe a person working in a criminal enviroment has a hard time looking at the real side of life. Don't you get tired of seeing/working with all the people who are now and had been nothing but a problem.

Recidivist's are a major problem in our society.

I think that a small percentage of problem people, are affecting a large percent of the population. Victims have been the result, on one side or the other.

I believe our society has got to change its approach, or our society will be changed by other forces. Where do we start???

When sitting at a traffic signal and there are twenty cars. One has a blaring stereo, with filth pouring out of it, do those others enjoy it? Feel good about it? Or are they bothered by it???

They are affected one way or another. And, NO... we all can not just get along.
Regards, Gary

 

[GAB]

One of my Japanese host brothers tells me that he thinks it's cool too. If I knew somebody who died in the tragedy, I would've probably slapped him on the back of the head. It took all my strength not to tell him it would be like calling the Hiroshima blast 'cool'. Maybe I should have, though.

I think at the time of the Bombing of the Japanese people we thought it was the right thing. I am sure there were a lot of people who were cheering that incident.

Unfortunatly, or fortunatly, we are able to express ourselves in THe USA.
But when it is criminal in nature we should not turn the other cheek.
We have much leeway before it is criminal, so when it is criminal the leeway should end.

To hit someone for there remarks, is the criminal part, not the statement.

Regards, Gary

 

[loki09789]

Good parenting is vital, yes. But other influences can undo some of what good parenting has done. Schooling, peers, TV do have an impact. You need good teachers, too. Maybe part of good parenting is saying 'No' and filtering some of those other influences out? Turn off the TV, monitor internet usage, critically discuss music lyrics, that sort of thing....

(I don't think I'm particularly coherent this evening, but yr all intelligent folks, so you'll figure it out)

Exposure to 'role models' (not chosen but just happen to be the people you live around) is the biggy. If you are a decent person, working hard but are also a single parent in a poor/high crime (or even rich/high crime) area and your child is spending more time on his/her own because your working and don't have a solid support network, the child will learn vicariously about life from those 'other examples' whether you like it or not....

 

[GAB]

Exposure to 'role models' (not chosen but just happen to be the people you live around) is the biggy. If you are a decent person, working hard but are also a single parent in a poor/high crime (or even rich/high crime) area and your child is spending more time on his/her own because your working and don't have a solid support network, the child will learn vicariously about life from those 'other examples' whether you like it or not....

I agree to this very much.

Regards, Gary

 

[Tgace]

Exposure to 'role models' (not chosen but just happen to be the people you live around) is the biggy. If you are a decent person, working hard but are also a single parent in a poor/high crime (or even rich/high crime) area and your child is spending more time on his/her own because your working and don't have a solid support network, the child will learn vicariously about life from those 'other examples' whether you like it or not....

Excellent point. I recently arrested a young man with drugs on him that were obviously packaged for sale. When we were looking for him I spoke to his parents. They were decent people who ultimately turned their own son in to the police. This seems to be the exact problem. Kid was an A student, no trouble to speak of, involved parents but both are working so often that the kid was "hanging" with some bad people. Of course the entire area of the city he came from is very "rough" to begin with....

 

[Brother John]

When you say Parents, I get a feeling you are talking....Genes.

While it's true that the gene-pool needs more chlorine and the long net run through it and it wouldn't hurt to have fewer family trees that resemble palm trees... no, I wasn't really talking about genetics. Stupidity may have a strong genetic link, but no...
I was talking about SCUM spawning kids and then forgetting that the event should change/augment your entire life and world view or at very least they should work to care for and protect that child. NOT have the child be at the mercy of their addictions/habits/lusts/selfishness ....etc etc.

I think 16 is a fair time to treat them as adults, some even earlier...

Why? For what offenses?? Not that I 100% disagree, but it needs to be based on the severity of the crime and the rate of recitivisim for that individual. It's got to be tailored to the individual, the situation and their history. Adjudicating youth with adult statutes is applicable, but it's not the panacea that some seem to think. It wouldn't go very far toward cutting down crime...but it'd keep a few habitual/unremorseful criminals off the street...and that...only for a time. It's not like the adult correctional side of things is run any better than the juvenile. Same stuff...different keys.

Some don't stand a chance at leading a normal upstanding small town life of, 'do unto others' etc....I think peer presure in todays youth is a terrible burden...Do unto others before, they do you... is more like it.

I'll never say that some don't stand a chance. The day I believe that anyone 'has no chance' is the day I quit this field. I MUST believe that there is a chance...however remote, and then I AIM that youth toward that small target. I WILL easily say though that there are many for whom the deck is severely stacked against them and the target is small small small. Like one of my favorite supervisors once said to me..."John, you can't save'm all. Some we can only hope that they grow up to be model inmates."
Sad thought.
I AM my brother's keeper.
Peer presure is a tremendously aweful thing for todays youth. It's increadible. BUT: by no means is it alone. Just like you can't only blame video games and mtv...but they do play a part; peer presure does take it's toll. But it's only one part of a very negative whole.

How about the statement, 'that it takes the whole neighborhood to raise a child'. I see that as good and bad in todays living standards

That quote stinks and came from the bowls of HELL!!!!
It's got a seed of truth, sure... the social environment is important. BUT it takes PARENTS to produce a child and Good parents to raise an adult. That quote is too often seen as an excuse for the results of bad parenting. DO you know when the "villiage" should step in and help raise a child??
When, and only when, the parents of that child are not able to!!!
PERIOD. Otherwise the villiage needs to mind their own curtain crawlers! Otherwise this quote is only applicable in a social-communist environment...and we've all seen the wonders that communism produces.

Don't you get tired of seeing/working with all the people who are now and had been nothing but a problem.

I don't work with problems. I don't even work with "bad kids". I work with Damaged Goods. These youth were let down in some very profound ways by their parents. 99% of the time the youth was neglected. There are two general kinds of neglect that you see:
#1: malicious indiference: "Damn kid. Never do anything right. Don't talk to me now...the game is on." So the kid makes up his world view from nothing better than the most base urges of the ID. (see Freud)
#2: Benevolent indiference: "Sure son, whatever you want."
This is the kid that was kept out of sight/out of mind by giving him whatever the hell he wanted and let him do whatever also.... for the parents later to find out (usually around 14yoa) that they've produced a selfish, self centered monster who believes that the world owes them everything. "How DARE that cop pick me up for shoplifting. How else am I gonna get my cigarettes"...says the 13 year old I saw last week.
These kids aren't THE problem, they are the fruits of it. The problem is parents that don't know how to parent and produce people who will grow up to pass on the legacy...and worsen it. Bad parenting is the only thing that doesn't have 'diminishing returns'...it gets bigger and bigger every generation.
DO NOT be your childs "Friend"!!! Be their parent. Be kind, but don't be a "Buddy". Let them grow up with the BLESSING of discipline...then be your friend once they have their own children and grow to appreciate exactly what it was you did for them!!! My parents did, and it's the best gift I've EVER been given next to the salvation through Jesus Christ!!!
No doubt about it.

I'm preaching again...
I think you get my point, so I'll step back from the podium and just let the music play.

Your Brother
John

 

[loki09789]

I'm preaching again...
I think you get my point, so I'll step back from the podium and just let the music play.

Your Brother
John

Loki gives BJ a big hug and rocks him to sleep....."It's okay big guy, ......" Passionate post!

The one point I disagree with (though hesitantly, 'gee Mrs. BJ, your hair looks lovely today, have you lost wt?), is the idea that "it takes a village..." is from the bowels of hell...though I think she lives in the burbs of hell, Billary is not satan.

I do agree with the idea that having a sense of community can help buffer how far down a child can go if there is bad parenting. The idea that parenting and parenting alone is the key is too narrow a perspective for me to take personally. I remember when a couple kids and their mother ran to my friends house to hide from their abusive father. The community helped support them against the bad parenting and got them back on their feet with volutnary baby sitting and other 'village to raise a child' applications that helped these kids see a different adult male role model AND to survive bad parenting.

Being surrounded by a strong sense of community/family - whether it is grandparents, foster parents, adoptives/step/singe.... - and a genuine concern/love for the welfare of children is the answer. That might equate to good parenting in some cases, but sometimes circumstances will dictate that it isn't going to be 'parents' that raise a child.

 

[Brother John]

Agreed, Mrs. Clinton isn't Satan... nor do I think she's evil. Self seeking, missguided and wrong....sure! Not Satan.

I probably react too strongly to that quote to be honest. The social environment CAN be a very strong support, but I still hold that it 'Should' be secondary...not primary.

You and I agree Loki (and BTW: Thanks for the rocking...though I didn't understand the "Mrs. BJ" part...but hey...Melissa thanks ya for the compliment I guess... I suppose someone named after the Norse diety of mischief and trickery shouldn't always be clear and obvious huh?)
We agree that the community can play a crucial role in taking up the slack for bad parenting! There are many significant instances of highly successful people who were abused or neglected when a child. By rites they should have had every excuse to fail...but didn't.
My GOAL is to be one of those REASONS that some didn't fail!!!! It's why I do what I do.
But these things come into play primarily when the parents don't do their job.
That's what I think.
Otherwise, the community should take a back seat in importance.

Your Brother
John

 

[GAB]

Hi John,

I think you need to get out and see the light of day.
Smell the flowers, see the other neighborhoods. Visit other countries get to know the other people in their own settings.

I was going to say in my other post, regarding working with habitual criminals and liars, that at least when you work the streets, you get to see more then one side of the story...I am saying, see, not hear.

I believe your passion against the parents, gives me a clue to your innerfeelings.

Much more to the big picture, then what you are seeing, IMO.

I agree with some of your thoughts or statements, and I will say I disagree also.

Thanks for the insight.

Regards, Gary

 

[loki09789]

Agreed, Mrs. Clinton isn't Satan... nor do I think she's evil. Self seeking, missguided and wrong....sure! Not Satan.

I probably react too strongly to that quote to be honest. The social environment CAN be a very strong support, but I still hold that it 'Should' be secondary...not primary.

You and I agree Loki (and BTW: Thanks for the rocking...though I didn't understand the "Mrs. BJ" part...but hey...Melissa thanks ya for the compliment I guess... I suppose someone named after the Norse diety of mischief and trickery shouldn't always be clear and obvious huh?)
We agree that the community can play a crucial role in taking up the slack for bad parenting! There are many significant instances of highly successful people who were abused or neglected when a child. By rites they should have had every excuse to fail...but didn't.
My GOAL is to be one of those REASONS that some didn't fail!!!! It's why I do what I do.
But these things come into play primarily when the parents don't do their job.
That's what I think.
Otherwise, the community should take a back seat in importance.

Your Brother
John

The Mrs. BJ comment: Think Eddie Haskel from Leave it to Beaver....

We do agree and I see your point that if the family environment (regardless of the dynamics) is loving and generally moving in a healthy direction (nurturing children, supporting each other - even if not perfectly) the community is secondary (and should be).

FINALLY! Someone who "gets" the handle (and doesn't just recognize the origin). Think of Loki (Norse demigod NOT ME) as the viking Bug Bunny of his day! Although, even Bugs was a morphology of the ancient Afro/American - Native American trickster entities, so maybe not in shape but in function/presentation.

 

[raedyn]

Exposure to 'role models' (not chosen but just happen to be the people you live around) is the biggy. If you are a decent person, working hard but are also a single parent in a poor/high crime (or even rich/high crime) area and your child is spending more time on his/her own because your working and don't have a solid support network, the child will learn vicariously about life from those 'other examples' whether you like it or not....

Yes!! I know, for example, a woman who is working three jobs to support her kids without welfare, who tries very hard to do a good job with them but she is never home because she is always working, and these kids are getting raised by.. each other, peers, local bad guys, whomever happens to be around. They live in a high-crime neighbourhood (but couldn't afford to live in a better one, and she doesn't have the education to get better paying jobs). They are turning into bad kids. At the convience store I worked at, the mom was one of our favorite customers, but none of her kids were allowed in the store because they'd all been caught stealing. And one of her kids eventually torched her house. It's sad.

<random off-topic thought>
If she's too busy struggling to support her family to do a good job raising them, would it be better for her to be on welfare and raising better citizens?
</random off-topic thought>

 

[loki09789]

<random off-topic thought>
If she's too busy struggling to support her family to do a good job raising them, would it be better for her to be on welfare and raising better citizens?
</random off-topic thought>

As long as she isn't camping out on the social services but using it as a mechanism to maintain some kind of family stability (time at home and such) while she is moving up and on to better education/job opportunites... I have no problem with this idea and it harkens back to the 'village raising a child' idea in a way.

NICE OBSERVATION!

 

[TonyM.]

It's not. He's a moral cripple as well.

 

[loki09789]

It's not. He's a moral cripple as well.

Huh? Clarification please?