Rage Dreams

[yanike]

Hi, all!

I've been self teaching myself Wing Chun, Wushu, Jeet Kune Do, and other forms of martial arts for finding SELF. I've gotten really good from practicing, reading, and learning key techniques (some I've thought of) very well to the point it's natural. Lately I've moved on from using hand wraps to punching bare hands and kicking trees and other hard surfaces and it just feels like I'm wearing pads. I really don't know if that is good or not. I stopped recently because the swelling concerned me.

Anyways, lately I've been having rage dreams that wake me. It's like I find myself in bad situations in my dreams where I get emotionless and just use lethal techniques to kill my attackers. Sometimes I think it's just a dream reflecting what I watch and read, but sometimes I wonder if all this self training I'm doing to be calm and emotionless under fear or anger is affecting me. What are y'all thoughts?

 

[WC_lun]

<sigh> No you are not teaching yourself Wing Chun. Wing Chun has to be felt to be understood. I won't speak for Wushu or Jeet Kune Do, but I seriously doubt you are really learning those either. Do not go back to kicking tree or other hard surfaces. Real martial arts isn't a movie. Get a clue and get to training with a real instructor and training mates. Until then you a definitely not "really good" but rather really decieving yourself.

I've no idea what your dreams mean, though if I had to guess I would say they are the product of the hormones going nuts in your 13 year old body.

 

[Chris Parker]

Yeah, I'm with WC_lun there... you're not teaching yourself Wing Chun, or anything similar. At best you're coming up with your own ideas based on reading (and probably misinterpreting) what you've found. As far as your dreams, honestly, see a psychiatrist about those... they're not really something we can deal with here, there's far too much that we simply don't have access to.

 

[Sukerkin]

Sound advice I have to agree. The idea of 'self-training' is something of a myth that never quite goes away.

Fundamentally, martial arts are complex sets of body movements that become reflexive through multiple repetitions. If you spend your time learning how to do these movements incorrectly, leaving aside the chance that you might hurt yourself, then that time is essentially not only wasted but will also make it much harder to learn the moves correctly if you ever do get qualified instruction. Much better to start off the right way than try to override what you have ground into muscle memory.

As to your dreams, well, this is not really the place to come to for help with those - if they are troubling you, seek appropriate professional advice.

 

[seasoned]

Do to the nature of many martial arts, it would require a more sensible approach to properly learn the techniques that represent a system. In order to build the type of foundation to succeed you would need to look into a qualified instructor instead of the approach you are taking.
As for the dreams, I do feel that they represent a certain mind set that preoccupies our daily thinking.
If you are serious about the arts you should try a different approach.

 

[Tez3]

The techniques may be 'lethal' in your dreams but you will find that in truth they are very far from that in real life. best leave your dreams where they are ... to be investigated by a professional, if you attempt to use any of your self taught martial arts techniques I think you will be sorely disappointed as well as sore!
Please find yourself a proper instructor who will teach you to be proficient in one art before you start thinking you can also teach yourself brain surgery or heart transplants.
As for kicking and punching trees, they have done nothing to deserve this treatment and are not prone to attacking humans however passive they are though you will end up with considerable damage to your limbs if you carry on this ill considered practice though head butting one may solve the dreaming problem, I'm not suggesting you do this though, please find yourself an instructor instead.
On reconsideration though I think the dreams are merely young male wishful thinking fuelled by watching too many videos and playing too many video/computer games. I take it there is a young lady/lad to impress in these dreams? Find yourself an instructor for proper instruction, fitness and a peaceful nights sleep. I believe cold showers are often recommended as well.

 

[MJS]

Hi, all!

I've been self teaching myself Wing Chun, Wushu, Jeet Kune Do, and other forms of martial arts for finding SELF. I've gotten really good from practicing, reading, and learning key techniques (some I've thought of) very well to the point it's natural. Lately I've moved on from using hand wraps to punching bare hands and kicking trees and other hard surfaces and it just feels like I'm wearing pads. I really don't know if that is good or not. I stopped recently because the swelling concerned me.

Let me address both parts of this paragraph.

1) Despite what anyone says, and yes this topic has been discussed numerous times, you can't learn from teaching yourself, via book, tape, dvd, etc. 1 on 1 inst. is needed...period! Sure, people can pick some stuff up, but it won't be as good quality, as if you were standing in front of someone, getting hands on teaching.

2) I'd exercies caution when it comes to body conditioning. That is something that again, needs to be learned from someone who knows what they're doing, and the process needs to be done slowly, gradually building up.

Anyways, lately I've been having rage dreams that wake me. It's like I find myself in bad situations in my dreams where I get emotionless and just use lethal techniques to kill my attackers. Sometimes I think it's just a dream reflecting what I watch and read, but sometimes I wonder if all this self training I'm doing to be calm and emotionless under fear or anger is affecting me. What are y'all thoughts?

Ummm.....ok. Well, I can't offer much on that one. However, something to keep in mind....not every situation that we face in life, will require us to kill someone.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Pretty sure everyone has said enough about teaching yourself martial arts to drive the point home, but it's just a bad to do conditioning by yourself!!! You need someone who has actual EXPERIENCE with conditioning, not just reading it in a book to supervise you so you don't go to fast and hurt yourself. Especially if your body's swelling up and you're not even feeling it...no way that that's a good sign...

 

[yanike]

Ok. First for all people insulting no thanks to your post. Second it's funny how quick you judge me without knowing me. Some martial artist you are with your respect level.

Second.. I self teach myself because I have no other choice but to. The arts I want to learn aren't taught here. The arts that are here I've gone to made me leave the clubs because they seem fake and robotic. They try pushing their own books on you and it seems I'm paying for a book instead of learning the art. Also, I didn't like the fact the yellow and purple belts were struggling to perform techniques that I self taught myself to do in practice and sparing with others from time to time. I'm no master and I don't think I can beat the best of the best. I read on martial arts and learn what I can because I love it and it teaches me self. I know you can't learn everything from books and I know sparing with others not skilled in the art won't do much at all, but it's better learning something I love instead of learning another art that just seems like a robotic method of punch and block.

The dreams I have will sure pass and I'm sure they are from what I've been doing lately teaching myself calmness.

 

[lklawson]

Ok. First for all people insulting no thanks to your post. Second it's funny how quick you judge me without knowing me. Some martial artist you are with your respect level.

Then you're gonna love this one. Your post reads just like a lot of other Trolls I've seen over the years. I think there's a better than even chance you are a Troll.

Second.. I self teach myself

Suuuuure you do.

Also, I didn't like the fact the yellow and purple belts were struggling to perform techniques that I self taught myself to do in practice and sparing with others from time to time.

This makes me giggle.

The dreams I have will sure pass and I'm sure they are from what I've been doing lately teaching myself calmness.

Have you gotten your attention fix now?

 

[yanike]

Then you're gonna love this one. Your post reads just like a lot of other Trolls I've seen over the years. I think there's a better than even chance you are a Troll.

Suuuuure you do.
This makes me giggle.

Have you gotten your attention fix now?

No attention needed. You get your fix? Nice you grab what you needed and insult more. Not even reading the important parts of why I self teach.

Posting here was a big mistake. I wasn't trying to do anything, but ask a question. Thought I would get educated and mature responses. Not insults and being put down like I'm worthless.

 

[Tez3]

No one has insulted you, you see insult where there is none. You asked for advice, you got it, you just don't like what it is.

 

[Steve]

What part of the country are you in? Perhaps someone here can help you find a real school. Punching and kicking trees is foolish. I'd recommend you stop that.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Cyriacus]

Hi, all!

Hi.

I've been self teaching myself Wing Chun, Wushu, Jeet Kune Do, and other forms of martial arts for finding SELF.

Yeah, right. Doesnt work that way, friend

I've gotten really good from

Its nice to be enthusiastic, but lets not get into this.

Anyways, lately I've been having rage dreams that wake me.

Ok. That has nothing to do with Martial Arts Training. I once woke up and spontaneously put a hole in my bedroom wall. I dunno what I was dreaming, but Id prefer ragey dreams to waking up and punching a wall.

It's like I find myself in bad situations in my dreams

Right. The whole explanation came in right here.
You might on some level afraid of getting into a 'bad' situation, fearing from your life, and the brain has this way of dealing with things its concerned about by dreaming about them.

where I get emotionless and just use lethal techniques

I wasnt going to get into the technical side, but i have to say, 'Lethal Techniques' dont work that way. Slapping someone is potentially lethal. Moving on.

to kill my attackers.

Ok. And? If Youre concerned about having anger driven dreams, i suggest a psychiatrist or a counciler. Otherwise, everyone has violent dreams. It aint unusual. Maybe its unusual for You?

Sometimes I think it's just a dream reflecting what I watch and read,

Dreams reflect what You think and feel, and how that is displayed draws from the closest point of reference. When personal experience isnt available, You can default to the closest thing, which can be films, in some instances.

but sometimes I wonder if all this self training I'm doing to be calm and emotionless under fear or anger is affecting me.

Even with intensive training under a skilled teacher, learning to be calm and emotionless under fear or anger takes a LONG time.
Either way, it wouldnt be affecting you. If You THINK it affects You, and have an opinion on that effect, that can cause Your brain to manifest that thought into a dream. You probably just had one dream that made You overthink the violent dreams that We all have.

What are y'all thoughts?

Youre reading too much into it. If You think theres something wrong with You, in todays society Councilers and Psychiatrists are not frowned upon. If Youre just curious, consider Your curiosity satisfied.

Now, feel free to stop reading if You want.
Punching trees and such isnt good for much. Just lightly making contact with hard stuff like that with no give can be good to practice contact itself, if You dont have anything better, but other than that, not much point. If You want to learn to be calm under pressure, You need to occassionally learn under pressure. And the safe way to do that is at a Dojo, Gym, or somesuch. If You want to discover Yourself, thats up to You. Martial Arts, studying, and anything else will only benefit You as much as You think it does.

 

[Cyriacus]

Id also like to add that teaching Yourself to be calm doesnt work too well. If You truly want to be calm, You cultivate that. If You are not a calm person, learn to relax, instead. Then try for being calm later in life, when nature isnt fighting You as often.

 

[MJS]

Well, as I said, this is a topic that has been discussed numerous times. A simple search should find many threads. To the OP....not sure where you live. Perhaps if you tell us where you live, and what dojos are around you, as well as what you're interested in, perhaps we can offer some suggestions. As I've said many times, when people say the same things you do, here are your options:

1) Accept the fact that the art that you want, isn't in your area, thus you'll have to find a second pick.

2) Expand your search. In other words, dont limit yourself to one area. If you find a school that you like, but its 2hrs 1 way, you can make the trip, again, if its something you want that bad.

3) Take private lessons. If the drive is too far to make regular classes, see if you can do 1 on 1 lessons.

 

[jasonbrinn]

Ok - not sure why I am going to open my self up to this but I hate to see something I feel is wrong with out saying something so here goes.

You can totally SELF TRAIN.

It's not the best method usually but it is not impossible. I have known MANY and there are plenty of examples today of people SELF TRAINING and getting much better than others who took the traditional route.

I feel the real issue is to make sure what you are doing in your self training is safe. Get some guidance from someone or at least use methods of training that are generically agreed upon until you reach a level where you can go into whatever you want.

Train what you love and believe in. If that means training on your own then so be it - don't train something you don't like or agree with just because you can get a teacher doing it. Life and the school of hard knocks can be your teacher if you listen.

Trust me young man - you ARE NOT going to find many people who will agree with me or any here for that matter I'm guessing. I have trained over 30 years, had many schools and trained fighters and I am telling you that you CAN self train.

Be smart and use common sense. Body conditioning IMO does NOTHING to help in any way measurable. It is really a waste of time and only ends up hurting your body. Train to be fit, fast and flexible and you will outdo the 99%.

Good luck on your journey and if you have any questions feel free to hit me up. Oh and about your dreams, you really should seek professional counseling as they could be for many different reasons and dreams are usually very reflective of things that should not go ignored usually.


#sigh - now I guess the onslaught will begin because I chose to honest.

Jason Brinn

 

[lklawson]

No attention needed. You get your fix?

I get my "fix" several times a week when I go train and teach.

Nice you grab what you needed and insult more.

Did I hurt your feelings? I'm being honest here. Your post reads like hundreds of Trolls that I've read over the years. "I taught myself to fight. I'm so awesome that I whoop up on people who actually have teachers. But I'm afraid that I'm getting too dangerous for the average person so I'm having dreams. Can you help?" Yeah, we can help. Grab some reality or stop trolling. Those are the only two options.

Not even reading the important parts of why I self teach.

There were "important" parts? Were those the places where you were talking about how awesome a fighter you are?

Posting here was a big mistake.

Maybe.

I wasn't trying to do anything, but ask a question.

I still have my doubts.

Thought I would get educated and mature responses. Not insults and being put down like I'm worthless.

You have seen too many Kung Fu movies. Doing martial arts doesn't make people any less people. And the only people I've ever known who complain about someone else being less "mature" were kids. You come across as a kid. Maybe 13 to 16. No one insulted you. The worst done so far was from me and I said you sound like a Troll. I'm inviting you to prove you're not.

Look kid, let's assume for just one small second that you're not actually a Troll (I'm still not convinced). "Self Teaching" isn't impossible. I'll say it again, it's not impossible to learn on your own. But it's the least efficient method imaginable by several decimal places. Here's what I wrote the last time the subject of "learning on your own" came up (over in the knife forum).

I'm assuming here that you mean, "without an instructor." You can learn how to fight, with anything, without the aid of an instructor. I say this with 100% authority because, frankly, it's been done before. Fighting started somewhere and with someone who had no actual instruction. So, yes, it can be done. The problem is, it is the least efficient way of learning out of thousands of different ways. It involves a lot of trial and a lot of error. When your fighting unarmed, error can, and has, lead to serious, sometimes fatal, injury. Adding weapons in only increases the odds of injury. Often, starting from scratch can take (literally) generations of practitioners to refine and fully realize "fighting" with any given medium. Modern MMA, for instance, is the product of at least 15 "generations" of refinement. If you restrict it to only those generations since UFC1, then it is the product of no less than 3 "generations" of refinement (based on instructor-student-instructor cycling). The first generation of "Knife Fighters" survived by accident, learned by experience of actually killing other people, and learned by watching their friends and students get killed. You don't wanna start there.


I suppose part of the question is also, "can I learn, without live instruction, by book and video?" The answer is still a qualified "yes." You can learn but it'll be a boatload slower. You WILL make mistakes. Without a live instructor to see and correct those mistakes, they will creep into your personal repertoire, each mistake and error dominoeing off of the previous, expanding in a Butterfly Effect to where your skills are naught but a house of cards ready to collapse when the first skilled opponent exploits one of your foundational errors (stance, distance, footwork, timing, grip, whatever). Again, these errors can be mitigated by "going and doing" but who wants to kill people and risk getting killed just to make sure you don't have any foundational errors screwing your technique up?
​

So when you say that you've been doing it and you're all awesome and stuff, frankly you're either lying or (self) deluded. When you say that you've self-studied different martial arts (and gotten awesome) without even some "base art" as a foundation to work off of, it rings every warning bell and raises every red flag. I don't believe it and most others here don't either.

So, seriously, kid, when folks here tell you to go get actuall training, even if it's not the style you thought you really wanted, they're not "insulting" and being "immature," they're speaking from logic, experience, and history.

 

[lklawson]

You can totally SELF TRAIN.

It's not the best method usually but it is not impossible.n

Feh.

It's the least efficient, slowest for advancement of skill and understanding, most likely to create foundational errors, and the default choice of kid after kid who, for some reason, seems to think that they're so rock'n smart and great 'n stuff that they can do it better than a martial style that's been refined for generations.

While it's "not impossible" it is far worse than "not the best method usually." It's actually the worst method and, frankly, from EXPERIENCE, should only be attempted by someone who already has a base skill/art from which to build and inform and only for an art or skill that is literally unavailable from a living lineage. Reconstructions of medieval swordfighting styles by people with pre-existing skill in other sword and weapon styles are an example.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[jasonbrinn]

I get my "fix" several times a week when I go train and teach.

Did I hurt your feelings? I'm being honest here. Your post reads like hundreds of Trolls that I've read over the years. "I taught myself to fight. I'm so awesome that I whoop up on people who actually have teachers. But I'm afraid that I'm getting too dangerous for the average person so I'm having dreams. Can you help?" Yeah, we can help. Grab some reality or stop trolling. Those are the only two options.

There were "important" parts? Were those the places where you were talking about how awesome a fighter you are?

Maybe.

I still have my doubts.

You have seen too many Kung Fu movies. Doing martial arts doesn't make people any less people. And the only people I've ever known who complain about someone else being less "mature" were kids. You come across as a kid. Maybe 13 to 16. No one insulted you. The worst done so far was from me and I said you sound like a Troll. I'm inviting you to prove you're not.

Look kid, let's assume for just one small second that you're not actually a Troll (I'm still not convinced). "Self Teaching" isn't impossible. I'll say it again, it's not impossible to learn on your own. But it's the least efficient method imaginable by several decimal places. Here's what I wrote the last time the subject of "learning on your own" came up (over in the knife forum).

I'm assuming here that you mean, "without an instructor." You can learn how to fight, with anything, without the aid of an instructor. I say this with 100% authority because, frankly, it's been done before. Fighting started somewhere and with someone who had no actual instruction. So, yes, it can be done. The problem is, it is the least efficient way of learning out of thousands of different ways. It involves a lot of trial and a lot of error. When your fighting unarmed, error can, and has, lead to serious, sometimes fatal, injury. Adding weapons in only increases the odds of injury. Often, starting from scratch can take (literally) generations of practitioners to refine and fully realize "fighting" with any given medium. Modern MMA, for instance, is the product of at least 15 "generations" of refinement. If you restrict it to only those generations since UFC1, then it is the product of no less than 3 "generations" of refinement (based on instructor-student-instructor cycling). The first generation of "Knife Fighters" survived by accident, learned by experience of actually killing other people, and learned by watching their friends and students get killed. You don't wanna start there.


I suppose part of the question is also, "can I learn, without live instruction, by book and video?" The answer is still a qualified "yes." You can learn but it'll be a boatload slower. You WILL make mistakes. Without a live instructor to see and correct those mistakes, they will creep into your personal repertoire, each mistake and error dominoeing off of the previous, expanding in a Butterfly Effect to where your skills are naught but a house of cards ready to collapse when the first skilled opponent exploits one of your foundational errors (stance, distance, footwork, timing, grip, whatever). Again, these errors can be mitigated by "going and doing" but who wants to kill people and risk getting killed just to make sure you don't have any foundational errors screwing your technique up?
​

So when you say that you've been doing it and you're all awesome and stuff, frankly you're either lying or (self) deluded. When you say that you've self-studied different martial arts (and gotten awesome) without even some "base art" as a foundation to work off of, it rings every warning bell and raises every red flag. I don't believe it and most others here don't either.

So, seriously, kid, when folks here tell you to go get actuall training, even if it's not the style you thought you really wanted, they're not "insulting" and being "immature," they're speaking from logic, experience, and history.

While I appreciate your acknowledgment of the fact that one CAN self learn your constant statements about it being the worst or least effective means of training are mere opinion - unless you can point to some study I am unaware of. The fact is that bad instruction would logically be the worst or least effective form of training and at the very least self training is better than learning from people teaching things wrong.

When people here make such suggestions they are doing so out of opinion and that's all. There are NO facts proving that self training is the worst or least effective and there ARE facts proving that self training can be done to a high level effectively. So if we looked at facts it seems most peoples opinions are not based on what has been proven.

I would love to see a study backing up these opinions so we all could have some solid foundation to work from here but to date there aren't any.


Jason Brinn