Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan?

[GetOntheGoodFoot]

Hey I was just wondering if anyone knew anything about a Korean martial art known as Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan. My physical ED teacher from high school teaches it and its very close to me. Im more interested in arts like muay thai, judo, hapkido. I am just wondering if anyone has any hands on information with this art, whats its like and just general info. Plus im kinda hesitant about it when it says its mostly a family oriented martial art and great for the kids, sure id like to build character but id like to build strength(mental&physical) and conditioning as well.

Heres his website, any feedback would be great.
http://www.grogansmartialarts.com/

 

[Omar B]

It's Tang Soo Do, basically Korean Karate. Hwang Kee founded Moo Duk Kwan ( School Of Martial Virtue, the name of the style) while Tang Soo Do is a general term for empty handed fighting. Basically Tang Soo Do is like saying Karate while Moo Duk Kwan is like saying Kyokushin, in that it's a more specific name for the style/school.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Soo Bahk Do is what GM Hwang Kee changed the name of his art to, after obtaining a book purportedly showing at least part of the historic art of soobak. It's heavily influenced by Shotokan Karate, but with more of a focus on kicking.

As others have said, since you're a total novice, your best bet is to go try different schools close to you. Most have cheap or free intro courses, but you can also just go and watch a couple classes and talk to the instructors.

If you're "hesitant" about family friendly schools, you're probably out of luck. Any commercial school that isn't family friendly isn't likely to last very long.

And FYI, some of those kids can likely whoop your butt, so I'd recommend reevaluating your (uninformed) opinion of family friendly martial arts.

 

[lklawson]

What Omar said.

To further expound, the way it's taught in most Dojangs is pretty similar (sometimes identical) to run of the mill korean Tae Kwon Do (TKD).

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Dirty Dog]

What Omar said.

To further expound, the way it's taught in most Dojangs is pretty similar (sometimes identical) to run of the mill korean Tae Kwon Do (TKD).

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Ehhh... I dunno...

Soo Bahk Do uses the turtle forms, as opposed to the palgwe (original TKD) or taegeuk (newer TKD) forms. Pretty similar, I'll go for, since they're all stressing kicking techniques, but not identical.

 

[JWLuiza]

The big difference being sparring is generally point focused and not WTF style sparring. Some TKD schools will teach the MDK curriculum as well. Check it out and if it doesn't meet your needs keep looking! And I say this as a 20+ year TSD practitioner... It's not for everyone and all arts have pros and cons. THe best indicator is what the training looks like regardless of the art. (Which is why I focus mostly on Crossfit instead of martial arts right now)

 

[lklawson]

Ehhh... I dunno...

Soo Bahk Do uses the turtle forms, as opposed to the palgwe (original TKD) or taegeuk (newer TKD) forms. Pretty similar, I'll go for, since they're all stressing kicking techniques, but not identical.

True enough. However, I've been in a few TKD Dojangs that were doing identical or nearly identical Hyung.

I'll caveat that it was a LOOONG time ago, back when I was doing TSD, which was back before Hwang Kee changed the official name to Soo Bahk Do MDK to give you an idea of how long ago.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

BTW, GetOnTheGoodFoot, I see you're from Edwardsville.

My wife graduated HS from Edwardsville.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Dirty Dog]

True enough. However, I've been in a few TKD Dojangs that were doing identical or nearly identical Hyung.

I'll caveat that it was a LOOONG time ago, back when I was doing TSD, which was back before Hwang Kee changed the official name to Soo Bahk Do MDK to give you an idea of how long ago.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Which would make me wonder if they were actually TKD schools, or TSD/SBD schools just riding the popularity and name recognition of TKD?

Was Hwang Kee still teaching then?

 

[lklawson]

Which would make me wonder if they were actually TKD schools, or TSD/SBD schools just riding the popularity and name recognition of TKD?

Hmm... Could be I guess.

Was Hwang Kee still teaching then?

hahaha Well, it was almost 30 years ago so... no. My recollection is that if you went to Korea and paid off whomever, you might be able to get a bit of time with him. But, even back then, his son was "the dude." My Membership manual had a pic of the lad doing a reverse round-house kick on the cover.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

My first Martial Arts instructor is dead.

Prompted by this discussion, I dug out my old Tang Soo Do manual (United States Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan Federation, Inc. - MANUAL FOR Gups). Tucked away inside it was a decades old business card for Merle E. Demott of Mt. Morris, MI., my TSD instructor and my first Martial Arts instructor. In a fit of nostalgia, I googled him.

I was rewarded with hits for his obit. He apparently died in 2010, born '46, aged 64. Way too young.

Now I'm all maudlin.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[GetOntheGoodFoot]

If you're "hesitant" about family friendly schools, you're probably out of luck. Any commercial school that isn't family friendly isn't likely to last very long.

And FYI, some of those kids can likely whoop your butt, so I'd recommend reevaluating your (uninformed) opinion of family friendly martial arts.

I agree dirtydog, it wasnt that its family friendly really im just new and wasnt sure if places that focus on majority of kids classes are great for adults. Id like to do something that I will struggle with so I can grow. Im going to try his free trial class, I ride my bike by there all the time anyway . So it has a great Shotokan Karate influence but focuses on kicks similar to TKD?

I graduated from Edwardsville High in 2007 I think, sorry to hear about your first instructor IKlawson, 64 is indeed to early.

 

[Omar B]

With zero MA experience you really cannot make that call dude. Your threads point out you inexperience quite plainly so I would suggest like every student you empty your cup and be a bit more humble. I'm quite sure there are a couple kids in that family class that can put a hurting on you. TSD/SBD is a fairly new style but it's got all the trappings of a traditional martial art so I would suggest you start there. I've seen guys start without a traditional base go into thai boxing or any of the more trendy styles that seem hip because of mma and end up spending lots of money on something the instructor is literally just a couple months ahead of his class on. They also develop bad mechanics. Even if it looks good to a layman and seems strong usually a practioner of a TMA can see the weaknesses.

 

[chrispillertkd]

As people have mentioned, Soo Bahk Do is GM Hwang Kee's baby (so to speak). He actually initially called his art Hwa Soo Do (Flowering Fist Way, IIRC) when he first opened the Moo Duk Kwan but didn't have much success. After a short time he renamed it Tang Soo Do and then finally Soo Bahk Do. The change to Soo Bahk Do was much earlier in Korea than in the U.S. and many people in the U.S. still refer to their art as Tang Soo Do. I don't know of anyone who isn't a member of the U.S. Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan Federation who uses "Soo Bahk Do" as a name for what they do, in fact.

There will, of course, be a lot of similarities to Shotokan if for no other reason than Hwang Kee used the Korean versions of Pinan kata for his forms. It seems to me, as an outsider, however, that his art both concentrates on kicking more than Shotokan and is a bit "softer" than Shotokan. This is most likely due to the influence of the Chinese arts that Hwang Kee studied when he was younger. Over time he introduced new forms (the Yuk Rho and Chil Sung hyung) that seem modelled more on the Chinese, soft arts than on the harder, Japanese approach.

The best thing to do if you're even remotely interested in Soo Bahk Do is to go to the school you mentioned and watch a class or two. Talk to the instructor, observe the students (not just how they fight, but how they act; are they respectful? disciplined? couretous?), get a feel for the general tenor of the school. If you're concerned about he focus (adult training vs. kid friendly) talk to the instructor and see what he has to say on the subject. He'd also be able to give you a better explanation of the whole Shotokan vs. Chinese influence on the art. Since the school is affiliated to H.C. Hwang you might also ask if there are opportunities to train with him.

Good luck.

Pax,

Chris

 

[GetOntheGoodFoot]

With zero MA experience you really cannot make that call dude. Your threads point out you inexperience quite plainly so I would suggest like every student you empty your cup and be a bit more humble. I'm quite sure there are a couple kids in that family class that can put a hurting on you. TSD/SBD is a fairly new style but it's got all the trappings of a traditional martial art so I would suggest you start there. I've seen guys start without a traditional base go into thai boxing or any of the more trendy styles that seem hip because of mma and end up spending lots of money on something the instructor is literally just a couple months ahead of his class on. They also develop bad mechanics. Even if it looks good to a layman and seems strong usually a practioner of a TMA can see the weaknesses.

Yeah I have next to no experience with MA which is why I plan on trying a few different arts out first as most of you seem to suggest, though I truly do admire Muay Thai and want to practice it one day. I dont really consider it HIP, I like watching MMA sometimes but what I really like about Muay Thai is its beliefs and concept as well as the technique & the excellent conditioning it offers. Thats actually why I came here is because with all the popularity of MMA, its hard for me to find creditable/honorable information or even have a simple conversation with people about Martial Arts without them having delusions of grandeur or somehow turning it into that.
I wasnt saying i dont want to practice in a family friendly environment or with kids I would be more than happy to really I have to start somewhere, its just with my lack of experience I was unsure how that kind of environment trains opposed to the non-family oriented gyms. I will be either sitting in or attending one of the SBDMDK classes next week. Thanks for your insight it all helps.

Heres the owner of the SBD gym here

5 Cinderblocks

 

[Makalakumu]

That was a good hyung performance and a nice break. I think you would get a lot out of training with Sabom Grogan. If it's close, I would train there because you know you can always make the classes.

I trained in TSD/SBD for many years. My teacher dropped out of the SBD federation in 2000 and we're independent TSD now, but I would never discourage a beginner from going to a SBD school. You'll learn good basic techniques from this style. You'll also be introduced to some joint locking and escaping techniques. There is more to SBD than kicking.

 

[Omar B]

I will always, always recommend a traditional martial art over a ring sport to people. Because most of us don't fight in a ring with perfect lighting, a judge to make sure nobody is up to any shenanigans, perfect flat surface, no being jumped unawares, etc. Sure learning a sport like MT can help, just like being fitter gives you an advantage in any physical aspect. Thing is a lot of people who are really good at a sport like MT started in a TMA and their mechanics and form is good because of that. The difference between good form and bad form can be millimeters of difference that an untrained eye cannot catch, but it's little differences like this that lead to injuries or ineffective delivery of power or slower speed. Two students start training, one in TSD and the other in MT, sure the MT student might be better for the first few months but after aout 6 months you start to see the person who does the TMA start surpassing the other in every way. Just my opinion.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

That was a good hyung performance and a nice break. I think you would get a lot out of training with Sabom Grogan.

was there a video of it in one of the comments? I looked at the website, but I didn't see a video of him practicing/teaching..maybe I'm just being an idiot at navigating through the site?

 

[Tez3]

I will always, always recommend a traditional martial art over a ring sport to people. Because most of us don't fight in a ring with perfect lighting, a judge to make sure nobody is up to any shenanigans, perfect flat surface, no being jumped unawares, etc. Sure learning a sport like MT can help, just like being fitter gives you an advantage in any physical aspect. Thing is a lot of people who are really good at a sport like MT started in a TMA and their mechanics and form is good because of that. The difference between good form and bad form can be millimeters of difference that an untrained eye cannot catch, but it's little differences like this that lead to injuries or ineffective delivery of power or slower speed. Two students start training, one in TSD and the other in MT, sure the MT student might be better for the first few months but after aout 6 months you start to see the person who does the TMA start surpassing the other in every way. Just my opinion.

I have to disagree!! How many shows have you seen with perfect lighting? :boing2:


I suppose it actually comes down to the old favourites, what's available in your area, where do you feel you can learn best and what do you enjoy? Not many have a choice of many styles that are all on what the politicians call a 'level playing field' ie all good instruction and good training facilities.

 

[Omar B]