I will say I misspoke when I said 'split' solely in regard to GM Kee, but there was definitely a split within MDK where some stayed TSD and some went TKD. It is easy to find with a Google search, but I believe the largest MDK TKD organization is the Pan-American Moo Duk Kwan Association (my how Koreans are all about names), with the Korean MDK Association a close second.
I'm waiting to see the formation of the Traditional American World International Progressive Martial Art Federation of Organized Associations, commonly referred to as TAWIP-MAFOA.
Many of the systems practiced by the Kwans were called Tang Soo Do so that is unsurprising. Also in Chuck Norris early books he refers to what he studied in Korea as TSD but later books seem to call it TKD. I don't know which branch / Kwan he was with in Korea - Does anyone know? Additionally in the early days of TK-D many schools / clubs used a Karate Reference for marketing, so, with the popularity of TKD expanding it would not be surprising if some MDK branches did the same.
When I opened my first school in 1985, I named it Midstate Karate Studio because very few people in our area knew what Tae Kwon Do was. Turned out to be a smart move but I eventually changed the name to include Tae Kwon Do in the name.
Oral tradition has it that Norris was with the MDK, but you know how reliable that is.
Did what they called it in any way affect their training?
Agreed. It's not my problem.
I bet if you really want to get their blood boiling, the one thing that can top that is giving them the stink face like Rikishi.
Yes, I believe that is still true about the South Korean army, but it is a long way from what WT teaches.
Exactly the issue. People my be applying a name to something being completely unaware the name implies one thing but they are doing something else - Case in point person doing Chang Han patterns and saying they do CDK. They may use a name for a system that is an empty hand system yet train with weapons for offense thinking that is part of the art etc.
I remember in the early 70's reading an article in Black Belt magazine about the "Tiger" division in the ROK army that was engaged in Viet Nam. They were reputed to be mostly TKD black belts and a tough fighting force respected by the Americans. I don't think their TKD training was just for "national pride" in those days.
In 1969-72 I met a couple of TKD instructors from Korea. One's name was Young Ik Suh. They were old school, no nonsense, and tough as nails, quite the opposite of Chuck Norris (who up to that time identified as TSD) in demeanor and in the look of their art. Both these Koreans' kwans represented themselves as TKD. This is not surprising to me as, during that time and thru the 70's, Korea was making a big effort in aggressively building the TKD brand in the US.
You're right - not just for national pride, but that was the seed of the idea.
It's Remembrance Day today in Australia so I'd be remiss to not mention the SASR, the “Phantoms of the Jungle” – or "Ma Rừng" as the Vietnamese called them. Off topic but cool that they had their own nickname.
Right, but again, what does it matter?
It matters for people looking for a particular system - (90% of newbies who walk in my door have no clue) and then find what the school purports to teach is not what they were seeking. Worse yet, spending significant time with a school or instructor only to later find a lot of that time, effort and money may have been wasted.. Historical example- In the early days of the KKW they accepted all sorts of systems and issued rank. People were often surprised to learn if they sought to transfer to another KKW school they did not know what that school was doing and had to basically start over.
I would still say that is more the norm. The majority TKD schools that have a direct link to a Korean instructor are a hybrid of a Kwan school that teaches KKW poomsae and WT rule sparring.
"Work" in what respect?
Honestly, as a martial art IMHO. Works as a sport fairly well.
I need to edit my post but was unable. It should have said:
Therein lies another issue . No Universally accepted definition of "Martial Art' for common current usage . Some like to parse the term and say "Martial" - War and "Art" is even more problematic. "Whether art can be defined has also been a matter of controversy. The philosophical usefulness of a definition of art has also been debated." Further, parsing a term i.e. "Airplane" Air and Plane ... is even more problematic. When it comes to "Martial" = War, lets face it , any empty hand system really fails in that regard.
I agree with the conclusion. I suppose I focus more on the 'Art' being synonymous the DO or the Way. Focusing on the mental component first, then adding in the 'Martial' or more violent aspects of traditional training.
