punching...

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by chufeng

Pan Shin Fu
Lives in Vancouver, B.C., currently.

Yes, he was featured in a documentary. His knuckles look horrible. Totally scarred with calluses. These are not your typical rough patch of skin. It looks like 4 patches of horn like dead tissue on each hand. He hits his knuckles on an iron plate several hundred times daily.

I don't think the deformation is a worthy tradeoff . You can develope an IronPlam like forefist without going to such extreme.

 

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by GouRonin

Originally posted by Yiliquan1
It is more accurate to say that speed, power and timing can be learned or developed and are a product of proper body mechanics...

[No it isn't. Maybe in your opinion. Most speed is really the product of proper mechanics. Speed in itself is really an illusion because mechanics allow for it to occur in a certain manner. There are people who are generally faster than others but for the most part most people are not faster than others. Just more mechanically sound.

In my opinion there is training technique speed and training reaction speed (both of which are sound principles), but the idea of training to be "faster" than your opponent is impossible. Training timing, to move at the right moment and to strike the opponent at the correct instant are much more sound principles (especially since, at 34, I will run a bigger risk of being slower than someone younger than me, even more so as I age further...).

If I offended you, I apologize. That was not my intent. I am just a stickler for how things are said - probably comes from my job (I am a military paralegal, and in my work how things are said is usually more important that what is being said Damn lawyers!). Given that we write things here, and then others read them, often misinterpreting what we originally intended, I am just overly picky about making sure every possible misinterpretation is eliminated before I hit "Submit Reply."

Gambarimasu.

:asian:

 

[Carbon]

A lifetime of training? Just exactly how old are you?

Also I don't want to sound like I know everything but what is the exact application of blocking a shin strike with your shin?

The point of attack that I know of from a Muay Thai fighter using his shin is the side of the neck, the side of the torso, or the higher part of the side of the knee. I am not sure which part you are comparing the hardness of these body parts but they are no where near as hard as the shin.

No I am not baffled by the conditioning of bones and yes bones are what take the actual shock of a hit, or the muscle. When you say you no longer have sensations in your shin that you did before? Maybe you grew more muslce on your shin I don't know, but the loss of nerve endings or sensations in any part of your body isn't a good sign.

 

[7starmantis]

Very, very true. Nerve endings are our friends. We don't want to loose them. Pain tells you how hard you are hitting, or how hard you have been hit. Without that I believe you lack a great tool in judging your infraction.


JMHO


7sm

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1
In my opinion the idea of training to be "faster" than your opponent is impossible.

If we both throw a right punch but you throw it by taking your fist behind your head then forward for more power but I throw it right from my point or origin. I will always contact first. Thus I have trained to be faster.

 

[7starmantis]

Exactly!!

:asian: :asian: :asian:

 

[fissure]

Carbon, I'm having a hard time trying to figure out who your posts are directed at.If you qoute the statement you are responding to, it would avoid confusion.
I asume that

A lifetime of training? Just exactly how old are you?

is directed to me, as I don't see another post with this question in it.I'm 31. I have been training in MA for over 23 years.Many here have been studing longer I'm sure.
As to the rest of your post, it must be directed to Damian....I guess.

 

[Carbon]

Lol, not to get off topic, but I don't know how many read the huge posts me and Damian had awhile back that was basically arguing about my maturity level and my applicable ability to apply what I say in real life.

Yes, most of my posts are directed towards damian. I'll try to do quotes I see the value of them, but I have ideas in my head to rebuttle to other posts and I usually want to get it down before I forget it.

 

[chufeng]

Carbon said:

"but I have ideas in my head to rebuttle to other posts and I usually want to get it down before I forget it."

In other words...your ideas about any given martial technique are fleeting...It only makes sense if you spend time thinking about it...

Too bad, you will die before you figure out what a REAL martial artist is about to do to you...No time to think... just flow with the events as they unfold...

That is where YEARS of experience come into play...that is not something learned in a book...

No argument....just fact.

:asian:
chufeng

 

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by GouRonin



If we both throw a right punch but you throw it by taking your fist behind your head then forward for more power but I throw it right from my point or origin. I will always contact first. Thus I have trained to be faster.

Speed is a perception. One person's punch thrown from his "point of origin" and yours thrown from your "point of origin" depart nearly simultaneously. Which one is faster? The one that lands first? It will certainly seem so. However it is possible for person A to throw his short distance technique before person B, but for person B's strike to land first depending on when during his opponent's movement he throws it...

In general your comment seems to support the idea that you train to be faster, but given the relativity of speed, your technique is simply displaying superior timing - yours covers a shorter distance, can leave after the opponent's technique leaves, and will likely land first... Timing, not speed.

Just my 2 yen opinion...

Gambarimasu.

:asian:

 

[Bod]

fissure wrote

Why would you assume that carbon, me or anyone else her is a skilled fighter based apon internet ramblings?

To my eternal shame I was being deeply sarcastic. The reasoning behind this was that carbon had posted:

I also would like to see you trap a boxers arm. Ya its easy to say and its easy to talk about and don't say oh I have or anything like that because untill you have a video of a full contact video of you trapping then don't make up things.

Later he backpedalled with:

Also I was just asking for video's. I mean the guy sounds like an extremely well fighter and I am always looking for videos of training and fighting and such.

My comment:

Send in a video of you being kicked by a mule, in every bone in your body and I'll believe it.
No, I'm not calling you a liar. I believe you are a skilled fighter, and I wan't to learn from you.

was simply aping his style.

OK. Yiliquan said:

In general your comment seems to support the idea that you train to be faster, but given the relativity of speed, your technique is simply displaying superior timing - yours covers a shorter distance, can leave after the opponent's technique leaves, and will likely land first... Timing, not speed.

Don't forget to add feeling, and offbalancing. Feeling your opponent's movements and using blocks etc. which unbalance him, makes it appear to him that you are moving much faster as he is caught up by the inevitability of your techniques. Also those techniques which seem to come out of nowhere seem quick to the guy on the receiving end.

That's one of the more beautiful things about traditional kung-fu as I know it.

 

[fissure]

Bod:

To my eternal shame I was being deeply sarcastic

Now I feel dumb.I posted on another thread, with a response I thought was "driiping" in sarcasm.I was apparently completely wrong!

 

[KennethKu]

Setting aside point sparring and friendly sparring, speed and timing alone is insufficient, unless the strike landed can deliver the damage to the target. This is obvious. But sometimes there is an inevitable trade off between speed and power.

 

[Kirk]

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/evolution.html

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1
Speed is a perception. Timing, not speed.

Which is what i have been sayng all along except that for some unknown reason you can't seem to grasp that.

 

[Damian Mavis]

"Also I don't want to sound like I know everything but what is the exact application of blocking a shin strike with your shin?

The point of attack that I know of from a Muay Thai fighter using his shin is the side of the neck, the side of the torso, or the higher part of the side of the knee. I am not sure which part you are comparing the hardness of these body parts but they are no where near as hard as the shin."

Carbon, I think you are confused by my statement "I blocked a shin kick with my shin". What that means is I blocked a kick that was using the shin as the attacking tool with my shin as the blocking tool. Shin kick = kick with the shin. Sorry you didnt know that. I really dont understand what you mean by me comparing the hardness of those other body parts to the shin as I never did any such comparison.

You obviously know nothing about Muay Thai which flabbergasts me because you are willing to argue about it like you actually do. The primary blocking technique in Muay Thai is called the shield....The shield is when you raise your leg to an appropriate height to block the incoming kick with your shin. That is the exact application of blocking a shin kick with your shin.

"No I am not baffled by the conditioning of bones and yes bones are what take the actual shock of a hit, or the muscle. When you say you no longer have sensations in your shin that you did before? Maybe you grew more muslce on your shin I don't know, but the loss of nerve endings or sensations in any part of your body isn't a good sign."

No, I did not grow more muscle than I did before...why are you guessing here? This is common knowledge to anyone that knows anything about Muay Thai. If you dont know or understand just go read a book about it since thats what your good at. I know at this point I'm getting snippy but your starting to tick me off with your guesses and debates on something I'm actually doing every day for 3 hours.

As for whether losing sensation in your shins is a bad sign that has nothing to do with the fact that ALL Thai boxers go through this process of losing sensation in their shins. I already gave you the "bump your shin on a table edge example" so you've got to try to understand that Thai boxers CAN NOT block full contact kicks with their shin if they have full use of the feeling in their shins. I stopped conditioning my fists cause I knew it would cause problems down the road, my shins I'm not so sure will bother me when I'm older. Keep in mind that there are dumb ways to condition your shins that cause permanent damage and pain and there are safe ways that most Thai boxers use like the banana bag.

Before you reply yet again with all kinds of guesses and opinions just think for a sec.....is it possible people that actually train in the arts you read about might know more than you?

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[Carbon]

Originally posted by Damian Mavis

"Also I don't want to sound like I know everything but what is the exact application of blocking a shin strike with your shin?

The point of attack that I know of from a Muay Thai fighter using his shin is the side of the neck, the side of the torso, or the higher part of the side of the knee. I am not sure which part you are comparing the hardness of these body parts but they are no where near as hard as the shin."

Carbon, I think you are confused by my statement "I blocked a shin kick with my shin". What that means is I blocked a kick that was using the shin as the attacking tool with my shin as the blocking tool. Shin kick = kick with the shin. Sorry you didnt know that. I really dont understand what you mean by me comparing the hardness of those other body parts to the shin as I never did any such comparison.[

I don't know if your an Anatomy expert or anything but the shin is refered to as The Tibia. Meaning it covers the front of your lower leg. When you raise your leg to "shield" It doesn't contact The Tibia it hits the side of your calf muslce. You condition your Calf to take the blows and you condition your shin to give blows. What is actually being condition'd though is not the Shin Bone its the muslce that covers it.

You obviously know nothing about Muay Thai which flabbergasts me because you are willing to argue about it like you actually do. The primary blocking technique in Muay Thai is called the shield....The shield is when you raise your leg to an appropriate height to block the incoming kick with your shin. That is the exact application of blocking a shin kick with your shin.

Originally posted by Damian Mavis "No I am not baffled by the conditioning of bones and yes bones are what take the actual shock of a hit, or the muscle. When you say you no longer have sensations in your shin that you did before? Maybe you grew more muslce on your shin I don't know, but the loss of nerve endings or sensations in any part of your body isn't a good sign."

No, I did not grow more muscle than I did before...why are you guessing here? This is common knowledge to anyone that knows anything about Muay Thai. If you dont know or understand just go read a book about it since thats what your good at. I know at this point I'm getting snippy but your starting to tick me off with your guesses and debates on something I'm actually doing every day for 3 hours.[/B]

Lol, your putting me down for reading? I'm sorry but are there any Muay Thai schools where I live? No, do you have the money to pay for it? No can you add an extra 3 hours to my day to allow me to practice it? No, then shut up. You are talking like I have no life and I don't do anything when you don't know me and you don't know what my life consists of. You accuse me of assumption and that I tick you off. Well you want to know what ticks me off? People like you that think they are better than someone else just because they aren't as knowledgable.

Not everyone can be an expert in every MA and not everyone has the opportunities that other people have to participate in out of school activites. So until you understand that not everyone's life is the exact same as yours you really need to shut up and mind your own business instead of trying to stalk people on the threads just to try and disagree.

Originally posted by Damian Mavis As for whether losing sensation in your shins is a bad sign that has nothing to do with the fact that ALL Thai boxers go through this process of losing sensation in their shins.[/B]

I forgot! You know every Thai Boxer in the world. Ahh yes thats right you know everything, my mistake.

Originally posted by Damian Mavis Before you reply yet again with all kinds of guesses and opinions just think for a sec.....is it possible people that actually train in the arts you read about might know more than you?[/B]

I guess you missed the post where I said I don't know everything or are you just trying to put words in my mouth to make yourself look smarter? Its the same thing when you butt'd into the conversation on the Backyard martial arts thread and started a huge argument there, but got proven wrong but were to afraid to admit it. Yes have I been wrong? Duh, everyone's wrong and I don't care to make mistakes, but just because I disagree with someone because I don't understand a concept they are trying to get across doesn't make me a bad person its called I'm trying to learn something new, but since you never graduated from highschool I guess this would be something out of your grasp.

Lol putting me down for reading? I mean come on?

 

[Cthulhu]

Mod. Note

Everyone,
Please keep the conversation polite and respectful.

Cthulhu
-MT Mod.-

 

[Damian Mavis]

OH MY GOD......

Ok you are a rude young boy, but I'll continue debating you anyways without calling you any names.

"just because I disagree with someone because I don't understand a concept they are trying to get across doesn't make me a bad person its called I'm trying to learn something new, but since you never graduated from highschool I guess this would be something out of your grasp"

I'm an extremely helpful person so if your asking for clarity or help on understanding a technique then I will be the first to try to help you but that is totally NOT what you are doing and as proof I quote the following.

" I don't know if your an Anatomy expert or anything but the shin is refered to as The Tibia. Meaning it covers the front of your lower leg. When you raise your leg to "shield" It doesn't contact The Tibia it hits the side of your calf muslce. You condition your Calf to take the blows and you condition your shin to give blows. What is actually being condition'd though is not the Shin Bone its the muslce that covers it."

Ok you just pulled that statement out of your butt. And on top of that you are trying to pass it off as fact. Carbon....you are not asking for clarity here! YOU ARE TELLING ME LIES THAT YOU MADE UP ABOUT A MARTIAL ART I TRAIN IN JUST BECAUSE YOU LIKE TO ARGUE AND ARE NOT INTERESTED IN THE TRUTH ABOUT HOW A TECHNIQUE IS PERFORMED! whew.....think my throat is sore.

Carbon, for the love of god...... "When you raise your leg to "shield" It doesn't contact The Tibia it hits the side of your calf muslce" NO it doesn't. How can I say this plainly, your wrong? Your wrong, your wrong, your FREAKING wrong! When a Muay Thai practitioner "shields" he raises his foot off the ground and ANGLES his foot outward, toes UP so the BONE of the shin is receiving the full blow of the incoming kick. The muscle should not be touched at all, if the muscle is hit chances are you were just disabled and are out of the fight. THIS IS NOT MY OPINION, this is proper Muay Thai technique omg WORLDWIDE. So you do not condition the muscle, you do infact condition the bone alright?! Why on earth would you even dare to state that garbage about receiving the blow on the calf muscle? And act like I don't understand the proper tool I'm using when I fight in the ring? I just don't get you, you heard a few tips like raising the leg and shielding and right away make an opinion that you are shielding with the muscle and then act like I'm misinformed or just plain stupid I guess about what I'm actually doing in the ring. I am dying to understand you!

No I am not criticising you for reading, I'm sorry you can't train in whatever it is you want to train in, but DO NOT pretend you are asking for help when you are TELLING people crap about their arts and arguing with them that it is true when it isnt even close to reality! Don't you dare feel sorry for yourself and try to portray yourself as a victim! You start these ridiculous arguments with your intense opinions that are not always wrong but often insulting. But in this particlular case DEAD WRONG.

I don't think I'm better than you because I have more knowledge. Like i said I would be the first to help you but you arent asking for help! Your slingning out ridiculous facts and then arguing their validity and even if I tell you they are wrong you say something ridiculous like "I forgot! You know every Thai Boxer in the world. Ahh yes thats right you know everything, my mistake" For crying out loud I have to know every Thai boxer alive to know how the art is taught worldwide? I'm not taking a Muay Thai offshoot or wierd hybrid. I'm taking official Muay Thai that they use in the ring in Thailand, sheesh. Maybe you have a difficult time understanding but when you study an art (by actually taking it) you learn all about it, eventually. No opinions, no guesses, just cold hard knowledge and facts.

Why are you telling me to shut up and I didn't graduate from highschool? And FYI I posted on those other threads before you, I'm not stalking you omg.

Look, calm down... stop acting like a fool (because I'm sure you are not). If you really seek information and good discussions you will change your tone....somehow I have a feeling the comeback to this post won't be any different than your others but I'm imploring you to change.

And dont stop reading, reading is good...but acting outrageous is not.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[Cthulhu]

Mod. Note

Keep the conversation polite and respectful.

Cthulhu
-MT Mod.-