Poverty ranks swell by over a million

[RandomPhantom700]

I might also note that building a six bedroom ugly, oversized house after ripping out a mangrove forest, so you can take your fat butt around and around in circles on a jet-ski, or flattening forest to crank out cheap trailer parks and strip malls, is not exactly fulfilling the fronteir spirit of heroic adventure.

After all, Republicans are busy denying health care, child care, etc., to the poor on the grounds of their immorality and irresponsibility. 'bout time we applied the same logic to others, n'est pas?

Not everyone who lives in Florida or California is a Republican building six-bedroom "ugly" mansions and ripping up the environment in doing so. There are government committees, in Florida at least, making sure that all property changes conform with EPA guidelines. My parents have had to go through a couple months' worth of mess trying to make sure there are enough mangrove trees in the area before putting up a sea-wall. Obviously this doesn't speak for all of Florida, but there you go.

 

[rmcrobertson]

Lemme see if I'm following the logic here.

We should provide government funds and bailouts for people who build homes in places that WE KNOW FOR A CERTAINTY are going to be blown down every ten or twenty years, places in which it is also quite damaging to the environment to build, and this has nothing to do with business pressures.

And we should NOT provide funds to, say, Planned Parenthood, because their clients should be moral and careful and forthoughty enough to stay out of trouble.

OK--that's what I thought.

 

[RandomPhantom700]

So the options, in your view, are to either evacuate all residences in Florida's hurricane path (i.e. the whole freakin' state), or just tell them all "sorry, you built in a dangerous area, so no support for you".

As for the Planned Parenthood thing, I hope that wasn't directed at me.

 

[rmcrobertson]

So YOUR options are to build and build and build, endlessly, no matter what the area, and then complain that somebody checked with the mangroves before you got to build a sea wall--which probably wouldn't be needed, except for the fact that somebody decided to build in an area that needs a sea wall if you're even going to try to have a house there.

Oh, and I should help pay for this. Several times.

As for Planned Parenthood....huh? I had in mind the Bush administrations ongoing attacks.

 

[MisterMike]

So what you're saying is along the lines of:

"If you eat McDonald's every night, you're not entitled to health insurance payouts when you have a coronary."

Some fool will proabably say the food is addicting.

 

[RandomPhantom700]

Well, first off I wasn't complaining about the sea-wall, or the mangroves; just using that as an example that the people in this state aren't just knocking down trees left and right for the houses. And, last time I checked, it's my parents who are paying for the sea-wall, not you.

Second off, answer the damn question.

 

[RandomPhantom700]

Oh yeah, before we continue this rant, should it be started in a new thread, or is it close enough in topic?

 

[Makalakumu]

These hurricanes are a one/two punch to the insurence agency. I vote for no bail out. People need to start making better decisons.

Apparently, my Right brain, overcame my ability to Reason...

Regarding this new topic, check out a book by John Mcphee "The Control of Nature".

 

[RandomPhantom700]

So what you're saying is along the lines of:

"If you eat McDonald's every night, you're not entitled to health insurance payouts when you have a coronary."

Some fool will proabably say the food is addicting.

Wow, I don't usually agree with you, but good point. *Golf clap*

 

[Makalakumu]

Wow, I don't usually agree with you, but good point. *Golf clap*

How about smoking?

 

[michaeledward]

So what you're saying is along the lines of:

"If you eat McDonald's every night, you're not entitled to health insurance payouts when you have a coronary."

Some fool will proabably say the food is addicting.

Actually, there are Actuaries who will calculate the additional risks invovled and adjust everyone's premiums higher .... Insurance Companies pay Actuaries an awful lot of money so that they don't ever have to worry about bein' in the red.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Well getting back to the original topic... IMO most of these poverty strickened people are there because they want to be there. Many are living on welfare and what-ever non-earned income they have going for them.
Many are not educated enough to get employment suitable enough to lift them above the poverty line or they do not have the necessary skills to obtain said employment that they need.
As one who used to live at or below poverty levels on more than one occasion... I'm working full time right now and am basically calling myself living rather than surviving... I'm just one step above poverty and hope to stay there long enough to get to the next step. It's called a JOB... you know J-O-B? Just Over Broke?... anyway I've seen enough examples of these variables in the poverty section of our society to know who are sincere in wanting to get out and raise standards of living but are struggling and some mightily at that, and others who are just plain LAZY and don't want to. And yes there are those who are just incapable by some circumstances or another.

Jesus said: "The poor will be with you always..." It is up to us to help out the best that we can. Even giving a person a job that pays decent enough for one or two nights a week (if that's all they or you can do) is a BIG help ... better than none at all.
We cannot and should not say it's just the government's problem just because we pay the taxes that are supposed to help these people... that want to be helped. There are many little things that we can do to make their lives a little bit better.
I try to do my part for new employees where I work, who are just starting again from scratch by understanding how broke they are after being unemployed for a while and now having to wait two weeks before their first check and loan them a few bucks... ($5.00 or even $10) just so they can get a dollar burger for lunch every day if that's what they need. It's damn hard, and I've been there and so I try to help out because it helps pass on the message that yeah, there are folks who give a damn.
Like many of us here on MT
:asian:

Question?

So, just because they do not have money, you are saying they are not really in poverty? Meaning that if you are able to get some money for no work and get by, then you should not be in poverty?

Or are you saying that these ignorant fools choice to be uneducated, and have no hope for a well paying job or carear?

Curious and sorry if you already answered.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Yea, I've seen the poverty stricken of Dorchester or Boston. With their 150 dollar nike's.

I see no motivating factors for them to improve, especially if we're giving out hard cash instead of food stamps.

Real poverty is when you are starving. There is not 34 million starving in this country.

You'll know poverty when you are truely hungry.

I made 19k after college. 1k above the poverty line. I was still quite happy then because there is more to life than money.

Mister Mike the 18K is for a family of four, and it is just over 12K for two people, so I would say it is about 6K to 8K for an individual depending on how you cut the pie. So you made twice to three times the poverty level for being single. Now if you were married and or had children then I am wrong and apologize.

I agree that people should work. I also agree that people who grow up in enighborhoods who are more worried about getting shot by the local drug lord then doing home work, or find some JOB on the street to bring in a few extra dollars to feed him/herslef and the family. Yes I know there are families out there that raise children to be on welfare. Yet I do not think this is the normal state of a healthy human being. I think a healthy human being would want to be proud of what they do and feel good about their family. And not to sound like my friend Robert, society has painted a picture for us to be sucessful. It includes a spouse and cars and a house and kids, and big screen tv's and other toys. Yet, to measure poverty, I would like to know what that is. I have some friends, he makes 26 to 30K a year and feeds and takes care of a family of four. He has some medical insurance also from his company. Yet he spent some time un-employed when his shop shut down, and he could not get another job in the same field and was not educate in another. He started some tech courses at a local CC and then he became a student and was able to get a job.

I am not condemning anyone here, just expressing a point of view.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Mike, with all due respect, people with 150 dollar nikes are not in "poverty" and never were. They weren't "given" money by the government to buy what they have, the families worked and scrimped and saved. The reality of wellfare is far different then what the Right envisions.

As far as the starving people in this country goes... My school provides three meals a day for EVERY kid who walks through the door. I have lived in places in this country were EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING was starving (Pine Ridge Reservation). I, myself, as a child, starved. If you count up all of the people in the city or in Rural USA who are going hungry, the number is going to be GREATER then 34 million.

This is one of those things that you only see when you have lived it, otherwise you are taught to ignore it. People always talk about how the government gives you everything when you are poor. Well, I grew up about as poor as one can get and I didn't get much. What I got, I recieved from scrapping metal and hunting and shoveling snow...ect. That is not what I would call lazy...

Poverty exists in this country and some of it is far worse then anything you will find in the third world. We should expect more from a superpower.

upnorthkyosa

Well in one of the better neighborhoods in the metro area, they give clothes and shoes to the homeless and those in pverty who come into the town to pan handle or find under the table jobs. The locals do not do this out of charity, they do it so it does not scare they kids. These people have/had better clothes then I do or did. Not saying it is right, yet, you can find examples everywhere of some really wierd stuff.

 

[RandomPhantom700]

How about smoking?

Ehh?

 

[Rich Parsons]

Mike, my father worked on Pine Ridge Indian Reservation in SD. I lived with him for a short time during my tumultuous young life. In the middle of winter, we are talking about 40 mile an hour winds and minus 0 temps, children were living in cardboard boxes. You won't see this on the news though...its not chic and it doesn't make Americans feel to good about their country.

Seeing is believe, Mike, that is all I've got to say. :asian:

upnorthkyosa

I have been on reservations and some are extremely poor, especially in the south west. Yet, somethings are changing with casino's in other areas such as in the mid west.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Ehh?

If you die because of cancer and you smoked should the person receive the death beenfits of an insurance policy?

Or step back a little should the person be elligable for organ transplants?

Or should the person be elligable for health care in the first place?

I think this si where the question was leading.

 

[RandomPhantom700]

If you die because of cancer and you smoked should the person receive the death beenfits of an insurance policy?

Well, the idea of life insurance is to cover those who were dependent on you (like I said, that's the idea only), so in that respect I'd have to say yes, because it would be unfair to those dependents to not allow the policy to be taken out just because the person did the damage to themselves.

Or step back a little should the person be elligable for organ transplants?

I should hope so, unless you want to say that because they smoked, they don't deserve to live. I don't like smoking and I think it's a stupid and disgusting habit, but I don't think smokers deserve to have their lives denied of them.

Or should the person be elligable for health care in the first place?

Perhaps a higher premium for their policy because they're knowingly endangering their health would be appropriate, but I don't think they should be denied of it completely.

 

[MisterMike]

Actually, there are Actuaries who will calculate the additional risks invovled and adjust everyone's premiums higher .... Insurance Companies pay Actuaries an awful lot of money so that they don't ever have to worry about bein' in the red.

Well, as I've said before , insurance companies are evil.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Well, as I've said before , insurance companies are evil.

Yes they are. They avariciously and needlessly raise malpractice insurance rates on doctors and then place the blame on frivolous lawsuits...ah, but we discussed that elsewhere.


Regards,


Steve