Church says girl's communion not valid

[Bob Hubbard]

Church says girl's communion not valid
Thursday, August 19, 2004 Posted: 7:32 PM EDT (2332 GMT)


BRIELLE, New Jersey (AP) -- An 8-year-old girl who suffers from a rare digestive disorder and cannot eat wheat has had her first Holy Communion declared invalid because the wafer contained no wheat, violating Roman Catholic doctrine.

Full article at http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/08/19/communion.denied.ap/index.html

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I had a long rant on this one and tossed it realizing I could offend a good number of folks. I'll be brief.

This is Bloody Stupid. And traditional religions wonder why they have trouble finding new members. Sigh.....

 

[michaeledward]

Bob,

It is sad that this young lady is being ostracized because of ill health. My wife and I had a short conversation about this earlier today, it's just sad.

I suppose that is one of the reasons that I have turned to science to understand the world around me; because the people who run religion sometimes don't seem to see the teachings the way I do.

I wish this young lady well.

Mike

 

[Flatlander]

Wow. I'm trying to imagine how this event will impact this poor girl's life. She's only eight. How would an eight year old reconcile this with her self image?

And what is an eight year old girl doing taking communion? Should this ritual not be reserved for people who have an understanding of it's meaning? Different thread, I suppose.

 

[Gary Crawford]

Maybe this is an example why the Lutherans split from the Catholic church?

 

[Tgace]

Welcome to the "Zero Tolerance" age....

 

[Mark Weiser]

I think if the girl's family was able to see the pope they may have a better chance of changing their minds. Oh Wait the RCC has been doing this to their members for years. Forget about!!!

 

[michaeledward]

And what is an eight year old girl doing taking communion? . . . Different thread, I suppose.

In the Catholic Church, the sacrement of Holy Communion is a pretty big event. First Holy Communion is usually received when the child is in 2nd grade, after a year or two of religious education (CCD).

Religious education usually continues for another 8 or 9 years until the sacrement of Confirmation, at which time the child re-affirms membership in the church, which was originally granted at Baptism.

Usually, in the Catholic Church, the Sacrement of Baptism occurs when the child is an infant. The Parents, GodParents and sometimes the congregation speak on behalf of the child in this ceremony.

Most Catholic Churches do not offer wine during the communion ceremony to the congregation. Only the Celebrant partakes of Wine.

Wow ... my head hurts, that I remember all that. Mike

 

[Flatlander]

Mike, thanks for the clarification on that. I appreciate it.

Dan

 

[MA-Caver]

Wow. I'm trying to imagine how this event will impact this poor girl's life. She's only eight. How would an eight year old reconcile this with her self image?

And what is an eight year old girl doing taking communion? Should this ritual not be reserved for people who have an understanding of it's meaning? Different thread, I suppose.

Personally I think this girl might want to consider changing her faith. This is closed mindedness and a doctrine determined by MAN not God. I'm sorry, but it has always been my belief that God determines who does or does not get into his kingdom not some clergy... of any faith. Clergy is there to help guide us to Him, not determine before-hand if we're worthy or not.
Someone could/should counsel the girl (and her parents) in letting her know that she/they shouldn't let this get her/them down. As long as her heart is sincere in her faith/love of God and Christ and she is repentant (as the Church and many other religions teach) then God will judge her rightly with Christ being the mediator as promised via his Atonement, the narrow specifics and nit-picking on what kind of bread makes communion/the body of Christ...won't matter...it's symbolic anyway. The mind and the spirit changes it to the body and blood of Christ when taking communion/sacrament.

 

[Gary Crawford]

can't she get out of this by confession? Like with everthing catholics get out of?

 

[Kenpo Mama]

I can't believe in this day and age and especially with all the bad press the catholic church has gotten, that they would be so pitifully stupid. The parents should just keep up the press on this and i think the church will have to budge. How ridiculous! i know a few children that have this allergy and i can't believe that they would have to deal with such stupidity.

I'm starting to spew!!!!

Donna

 

[Cruentus]

I hate it when people in the church are stupid.

The whole wheat thing became acceptable because St. Thomas discusses this as the acceptable material for the Eucharist...then lo and behold it found itself in the rulebook.

However, if we are going by the words of saints as authority on this one, then if one would read St. Cajetan, one would find that any kind of grain diluted with milk to make the bread would be suitable.

There are things that end up in the Catechism or other various rulebooks that don't belong because they are TRADITIONS rather then DOCTRINE. The importance is the transubstanation of Christ (meaning the bread actually becoming Christs body/blood while maintaining the appearance of bread) not the material the bread is made of.

Seems like lately a lot of people have been needing to remove their heads from their a$$es.

Besides all this, if the family wants to play it by the doctrine, then they can pull out the doctrine of personal conscience, which basically states that the first authority on what is "right" or "wrong" or "valid" or "invalid" is God, but the second is "consciousness" or the individual conscience and relationship between the individual and God. By this doctrine, just because it is by the belief of a few bishops that this girl's communion was invalid, that doesn't mean that it is true....to the girl that communion could be as valid as any, and truly only God could decide. Bam...my straight flush beats your 4 aces.....

This is all according to Catholic belief, anyhow. I shouldn't have to disclaim this, but yall know that if I don't, some idiot will come online spouting baptist doctrine and how Catholics are all wrong, or some other bunk on how there is no God, etc, etc, when that isn't the topic of the conversation.

The second thing I can't WAIT to hear is when people jump on my a$$ on this without having actually READ anything on the subject, because of course, everyone knows everything on the internet. However, if one does their research, one will find that what I say is true.

Anyways...I am a Catholic, and I say this is stupid, and I have my resources to back up why....

PAUL

 

[Andrew Green]

The girl should consider it is a blessing that she doesn't get to be a part of a church that puts women as 2nd class citizens...

On a technical note, I was not aware that the body of Christ was made of wheat...?

Oh well, pagan traditions and materialistic views of the spiritual world seem to be the flavour of the religion

*puts on a flame retardent suit...*

 

[bignick]

i just read this story and the first thing i did was come here to post about it...but somebody beat me to it...this is just unbelievable...basically it comes down to this...they want this little girl to risk her life for a half-millimeter thick piece of cardboard? i can't even begin to describe how this makes me feel...

 

[Bammx2]

The chruch might deny her...but God won't.
He doesn't put stipulations on food.

 

[shesulsa]

I want so badly to contribute to this discussion, but everything I would say has already been said.

This is just plain preposterous. What is the likelihood that the bread used in the last supper was made of wheat? Wasn't it more likely something else?

It's a freakin' symbol, for cryin' out loud, for the body of the Christ - or, as Paul stated, the transubstanation of Christ. What, we're not actually imbibing in plasma or consuming human flesh, here - we are SYMBOLICALLY partaking of bread (body) and wine (blood) to keep the covenant of rememberance of Him.

I'm no catholic, I'm no nothin', really but a spiritualist, I guess. I think I'm more Buddhist than anything, but I don't really believe in organized religion.

Peace.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

OK, so I'm not Catholic, I'm Orthodox, but I'll step in and say some redundant things here.

As Tulisan said already, the point of Communion is not the makeup of the physical material, but that the congregation and preist pray, and the mystery of the Holy Communion is that the bread and wine are changed into the Body and Blood of Christ through prayer and the Holy Spirit. I am hornswazzled (or something) by the technical hangup on the makeup of the bread, since my understanding was that it's not important that we eat wheat, but bread (maybe made up of soy?) that was blessed during the ceremony (Mass or Divine Liturgy).

Things like this make me so frustruated. I love my religion - but at the same time, when people do things like this (if this was an Orthodox issue), I get so angry!!

 

[RandomPhantom700]

Bottom line? Traditions are more important than the well-being of followers. Hell, if ruining the lives of so many alter-boys is no problem, is something like this really so surprising? Sorry, bad joke, but it does have a point.

I'm not that well informed on Catholic religion (by choice), so correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Communion a necessary part of getting into Heaven? So as this girl gets older, she's going to realize that, because her God gave her this disease, and because she can't get Communion because of the disease, she's going to Hell. Good luck trying to stay faithful with that realization in mind.

 

[bignick]

angry isn't even the right word....this seriously makes me feel upset...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/040819/480/njbp20808192156

tell this little girl she's gonna go to hell