Possible Solution for kids getting BB too young

Twin Fist

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Lets go with NO dan ranks under, lets say 16

ok, someone under 16 tests and gets a Jr BB, it's black with a white stripe down the middle of it.

for every 3 years they train, they can go to the next Jr BB level.

1st Jr BB
2nd Jr BB

etc

now, when they turn 16, take their Jr BB rank, cut it in half, that determines their Dan rank

for example:

1st Jr BB= has to test for 1st Dan
2nd Jr BB=1st Dan, no test
3rd Jr BB= 1st Dan and half way to 2nd Dan

no way you could have a 4th Jr BB, but this way, NO ONE turns 16 as anything higher than 1st Dan, but the kids can progress.
 

ATC

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Lets go with NO dan ranks under, lets say 16

ok, someone under 16 tests and gets a Jr BB, it's black with a white stripe down the middle of it.

for every 3 years they train, they can test for the next Jr BB level.

1st Jr BB
2nd Jr BB

etc

now, when they turn 16, take their Jr BB rank, cut it in half, that determines their Dan rank

for example:

1st Jr BB= has to test for 1st Dan
2nd Jr BB=1st Dan, no test
3rd Jr BB= 1st Dan and half way to 2nd Dan

no way you could have a 4th Jr BB, but this way, NO ONE turns 16 as anything higher than 1st Dan, but the kids can progress.
Made a small correction to your system. Sounds reasonable.
 

shesulsa

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My plan is to have the kid who has completed the children's syllabus wear a white belt with a black stripe while they learn the adult syllabus rank-by-rank. When they get all of white and are ready for orange, they test and if promoted get an orange belt with a black stripe down it, and so on. Half-black is the last color rank before black belt (half-red, half-black). They can stay in that rank for as long as needed until they are good candidates for first dan ... an alternative would be black with a white stripe.

I think the opportunity to learn through assistant instruction is a great one for that rank.

Sorry, if I won't put a 1st degree on a kid, why would I put a 2nd degree on a kid, even poom rank? I wouldn't.
 

Stac3y

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TF: I like your idea, but I think maybe the levels of jr black are not really needed. Here's how we do it in my organization:

We only have one level of junior black (they get a black belt with a white stripe, like you mention; so it's easy to tell they aren't the same as adult bbs.) After that, they can just stay in that rank and continue training with the kids until they are ready to move up and start training with the adults. When they start with the adults, they keep the belt, but they get tapes put on that show what rank they are in the adult class. They all start at white in the adult class, and line up behind the adult white belts--a child cannot outrank an adult unless s/he has been training in the adult class and earned rank there. Especially talented, large, and strong kids are occasionally moved out of the junior program into the adult program before attaining jr black so that they can train with people more their "speed." This is very rare, though.

My oldest son may be eligible to test for junior black in the fall of 2010 (right before he turns 12), but will probably take another year to get there due to the very large number of classes he must attend and assist in. He's been training since he was 6. Training for 6-7 years before getting a junior black is not uncommon in my club (which I neglected to mention at the beginning is not TKD, but is American Karate). Once he moves into the adult class, he will not be permitted to test for his black belt until he is at least 16, even if he is able to move through the curriculum faster than that. Oh, almost forgot--13 is the last age a kid can get the jr bb--after that they must move into the adult classes and start at white.
 

Stac3y

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Oops! Left something else out. Brown belts are assistant instructors in my school, so kids are not allowed to be brown belts, either. The junior "equivalent" is a red belt; it signifies their proximity in rank to the jr black, but differentiates them from the adult brown belts, who have a lot of responsibilities in the organization (it's kind of an apprenticeship thing, really.)
 

Nolerama

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Why not an industry-wide assumption that if you're under (let's assume) 16, and a BB, you're a Junior BB?

Anyway, I like the idea.
 

ATC

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Why not an industry-wide assumption that if you're under (let's assume) 16, and a BB, you're a Junior BB?

Anyway, I like the idea.
I think that is the assumption. The issue is that once you turn 16 then what? Some say you keep your rank but other say you start over, and yet others say you just retest.
 

Steve

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I like the way BJJ does it. Kids go White, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue.

Adults go White, Blue, Purple, Brown Black. So, basically, a kid works through the ranks, and their "black" belt is basically an adult blue belt. And when they move into the adult classes, they can either expect their first promotion to be to blue, or they can expect to wear that blue belt for quite a long while as they become accustomed to the adult curriculum.

It's a good system. Works very well.
 

msmitht

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I like the way BJJ does it. Kids go White, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue.

Adults go White, Blue, Purple, Brown Black. So, basically, a kid works through the ranks, and their "black" belt is basically an adult blue belt. And when they move into the adult classes, they can either expect their first promotion to be to blue, or they can expect to wear that blue belt for quite a long while as they become accustomed to the adult curriculum.

It's a good system. Works very well.
Just a correction :
The kids go White, White/Yellow, Yellow (Until 10yrs of age can not go past), Orange(can not go past until 13) and finally green. Blue belt is given to those who are Orange/Green when they turn 16.
 

Brian R. VanCise

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I like the way BJJ does it. Kids go White, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue.

Adults go White, Blue, Purple, Brown Black. So, basically, a kid works through the ranks, and their "black" belt is basically an adult blue belt. And when they move into the adult classes, they can either expect their first promotion to be to blue, or they can expect to wear that blue belt for quite a long while as they become accustomed to the adult curriculum.

It's a good system. Works very well.


This is simply an awesome system. I use a very similar frame work in IRT!
 

Gorilla

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Lets go with NO dan ranks under, lets say 16

ok, someone under 16 tests and gets a Jr BB, it's black with a white stripe down the middle of it.

for every 3 years they train, they can go to the next Jr BB level.

1st Jr BB
2nd Jr BB

etc

now, when they turn 16, take their Jr BB rank, cut it in half, that determines their Dan rank

for example:

1st Jr BB= has to test for 1st Dan
2nd Jr BB=1st Dan, no test
3rd Jr BB= 1st Dan and half way to 2nd Dan

no way you could have a 4th Jr BB, but this way, NO ONE turns 16 as anything higher than 1st Dan, but the kids can progress.

Great Post...Much better that calling me a fool, or slapping our Master... I agree with you on this post 100%...This is what I have been hoping for a reasonable post from someone of your experience...Thanks
 

Gorilla

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I like the way BJJ does it. Kids go White, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue.

Adults go White, Blue, Purple, Brown Black. So, basically, a kid works through the ranks, and their "black" belt is basically an adult blue belt. And when they move into the adult classes, they can either expect their first promotion to be to blue, or they can expect to wear that blue belt for quite a long while as they become accustomed to the adult curriculum.

It's a good system. Works very well.

I like the way BJJ does it they really make you earn your belts and it seems to be uniform. With the popularity of MMA I hope they don't get sucked in to quick promotions.
 

msmitht

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I guess it depends on where you train. :) Here's the IBJJF rules. http://www.ibjjf.org/graduation.htm
Master Carlos Gracie Jr. ,along with others that developed that system of belts, uses white/yellow instead of gray. But it is still the same way no matter how you look at it.
With regards to children in TKD, the most important thing is to train them well. Gauge their progress against other children their own age. When they are winning at tournaments or dominating others at their rank in the school then they are ready for promotion. Advancement to Poom is, in my opinion, given much too quickly at some schools. If a child is promoted to poom then they should be on top of their game and be able to dominate others their age. At the JKI there were a few competitors that did not belong in the poom division. They were slopy and clearly out matched.
 

ATC

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At the JKI there were a few competitors that did not belong in the poom division. They were slopy and clearly out matched.
I will agree with that. When you can destroy a divison 16-1, 12-0 and 7-4 (Well the 7-4 was not so bad) I would say there were some outclassed poom belts.
 

Earl Weiss

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Lets go with NO dan ranks under, lets say 16

ok, someone under 16 tests and gets a Jr BB, it's black with a white stripe down the middle of it.

for every 3 years they train, they can go to the next Jr BB level.

1st Jr BB
2nd Jr BB

etc

now, when they turn 16, take their Jr BB rank, cut it in half, that determines their Dan rank

for example:

1st Jr BB= has to test for 1st Dan
2nd Jr BB=1st Dan, no test
3rd Jr BB= 1st Dan and half way to 2nd Dan

no way you could have a 4th Jr BB, but this way, NO ONE turns 16 as anything higher than 1st Dan, but the kids can progress.

I think the youngest I ever promoted was age 14. That was after at least 6 years of regular training . In my school the kids class is about 6 years inimum for a BB. (Adults is High School and older and it's about 3.5 years.)

That being siad, I will say that I have seen kid black belts who are the reason there should not be kid black belts. Seemingly 95% of them. Then, I have seen the few that were basicaly gym rats and except for breaking could do all the adult techniques and Knew all the required material. (None from my school. ) Basicaly, you may have had some kid start at 6 or seven, average 5 classes a week for 6 years and make BB. This would put them at age 12-13. Possibly eligible for 2nd degree at age 16. Really could not see them having their rank cut at age 16.

Their were also well knowns of certain families, Ernie Reyes, and Benny the Jet Urquidez who were phenoms at a young age.
 
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Twin Fist

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Benny the Jet got his BB at 16, which at the time was a scandel, his instructor, Bill Ryusaki, invited the senior belts in LA to come over and test him, so he wouldnt be open to charges of promoting too soon.
 
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Twin Fist

Twin Fist

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maybe, i will check

from wiki:
This was followed by martial arts instruction at the age of 8, for which his first formal teacher was Bill Ryusaki. He received his black belt at the age of 14, a feat which was highly unusual during the 1960s.
 
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