Portland cafe shows officer the door

[Archangel M]

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/red_black_cafe_shows_portland.html

In mid-May, Portland police Officer James Crooker went to Southeast Portland on a patrol call. With a few minutes to spare, he decided to get a coffee.

So, he popped into the Red & Black cafe on Southeast 12th Avenue near Oak Street, bought a coffee and was heading out when a customer approached him, saying she appreciates the hard job that police officers do every day in Portland.

One of the co-owners of the cafe, John Langley, has another point of view. While the officer and customer were chatting, he walked up and asked Crooker to leave, saying he felt uncomfortable having a uniformed officer in the vegan cafe.

The real face of "compassion and equality".

I wonder who they would call if the store was robbed?

 

[Sukerkin]

That's a puzzling one to be sure.

There's a joke about Pigs and Vegans in there somewhere but I would not be so lost to good manners to try to build it :lol:.

 

[Deaf Smith]

While a FEW LEOs are borderline bullies, most are not. And for a business to show them the door cause they have their uniform on, well ok, don't be shocked of they sort of 'slow code' while driving to the cafe to answer a call.

It's clear the cafe co-owner don't like cops, but that can be a two way street.

At least here in Texas, few, if any, establshment would even think of doing that.

Deaf

 

[Ironcrane]

That cafe is not to far from where I live. In fact, my Kung Fu school use to be next to one of those cafes.
The public here generally seems to have a negative view towards the Police. I don't really agree with this view. But in the last few months there have been a few incidents with the Police that have really made the public angry with them.
So while I do think this sucks, I'm not to surprised to hear that it happened.

 

[Archangel M]

The interesting part is reading the comments. Everybody is piling on either the Cop or the cafe owner..when In fact it was an outraged customer who broke the story. A reporter and blogger who was talking to the officer when he was asked to leave...AFTER he purchased one of their coffee's of course.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Unless the cop was doing something wrong, I see the cafe owner as the one in the wrong here. While I subscribe to the 'reserve the right to refuse service....' policy, this seems....asinine.

 

[Archangel M]

http://www.corneliaseigneur.com/where%E2%80%99s-a-portland-police-officer-to-get-a-cup-of-coffee/

Where’s a Portland Police officer to get a cup of coffee?

My daughter and I were looking forward to a nice lunch at the red and black, a vegan cafe in southeast Portland, two days before she was to return to Germany. Having a vegetarian daughter makes for great eating adventures. I had heard about this place as it was the opening scene in the book Imaginary Jesus, written by Matt Mikalatos, whom I am writing a story about for the newspaper.

We ordered, we got our food and spoke of life and love and God and how things are going and how interesting the interior of this place is. I so wanted one of our last outings together to be memorable.

Then, I looked outside the window and saw a police officer and thought, Oh, no; I hope I am not illegally parked. You never know in southeast Portland. But, the police officer was not looking to give out tickets, but instead he was looking for a cup of coffee, so he thought he would try this vegan place.

He walks in and I say something to him, about how glad I am that he did not give me a ticket and he chuckled.

With all the recent disturbing stories regarding the police in Portland, I thought I would try to show my support of the police by just being friendly.

After he got his coffee, he was on his way out. My daughter and I were sitting near the door, so we addressed him again, just to talk. I opened the conversation by asking if he comes here a lot, and he said that he had never been there before.

Then I told him that I appreciate the work they do as Portland Police officers and I noted that it must be hard with the recent shootings and negative reaction of the public. He was humble, and said that indeed Portland is an interesting place to work; he said it is very hard and trying at times as he deals with murderers and gang members and drug addicts on a regular basis. People hear about the unfortunate police shootings, but rarely do they hear about the day in and day out reality of police putting their lives on the line and saving people.

As I was just starting to tell him how I agreed with him, and had a specific example – our friend who lived in North Portland, a 14 year old Sudan-refugee boy, who was shot at by gang members in North Portland (and later came to live with us for seven and a half weeks), who was saved by the Portland Police – one of the owners of the cafe came over to us; I figured he was just going to say hello, but instead, what came out of his mouth caught me off guard. He looked directly at the police officer, and said to him, “I don’t feel comfortable with you here, I would like you to leave.”

I am baffled. Here is guy, who happens to be a police officer, who paid good money for a cup of coffee, talking to my daughter and me, who paid good money for their food, and we witness what I believe is discrimination really based upon what someone is wearing and the job he has. And humiliation of an individual person. This in a place that purports to be safe and welcome for all, found on their website.

I asked the co-owner what is the problem here, he said that he does not feel safe around the Police, that they shoot people. I tell him I am confused by his response to a Police Officer who is merely trying to get a cup of coffee, and that I know that there have been some unfortunate situations recently involving the Police, but that overall they are here protecting our community day in and day out, and you have to look at all sides of culture. I also asked him whom he would call if someone came in to rob his store and he said he would call his friends in a community and that is when I knew we were getting nowhere.

I wondered if he has visited countries where there is no true police force and where there is indeed lawlessness running the town or country.

Later, I tracked down the police officer to give him my card and to tell him how I was sad that happened to him and I asked him to call me. I told him that I wanted to write about this and that it baffled me. I live in the suburbs where police are very much respected in the community. The Portland Police told me that they are used to this general attitude from some people in Portland; and he also said he will always be kind to people no matter what.

I thought, wow, here this police officer is trying to protect the very people that hate him. The police officer said to me that part of the problem is education, that the public just does not know what they do all day long, that they put their lives on the line every single day, but what gets on the news is when a police shooting occurs due to someone who fled the scene or did not listen to orders.

Later, when I spoke with the policeman in greater detail, he said: “I don’t think the public is aware that that is how it is and all you can do is put the best foot forward and be professional and kind. This person (at the cafe) has his personal opinion. Look at his surroundings. He surrounds himself only with people who think the same way. That person will never be treated poorly by me. It is a cultural thing. We are failing ourselves. The public does not know what we deal with every day. Just two days in a row I have dealt with murderers. You also have to understand that the police are unable to combat the info about the police because what we are allowed to share is confidential information.”

The police officer also said that in the only so much info gets to the public, the public needs to be educated that we are on their side. “Every day police go out there and risk their lives. There is someone out there doing something wrong and we need to be there for the community. Let us get the bad guys here, but it is not as simple, there are a lot more factors in what we weigh in whether we want to act here.”

Then, the clincher—he had me at hello- was that he offered to take me in his car for a day or an hour or for whatever time I had, to show me what he does all day long as a Portland Police officer. I would like to take him up on his offer, but to be honest, I would be afraid of what those police officers have to face during regular business hours on the streets of Portland.

And, the public rewards him with asking him to leave a coffee shop.

So, where’s a Portland Police officer to get a cup of coffee?

Not at a certain vegan cafe in southeast Portland.

My daughter and I were so distraught by this negative experience, about the way the café treated the police –when they should be treated with gratitude and respect and honor – that we went the next day looking for a café with class and dignity for all people, no matter what they are wearing.

We found the Palios Dessert & Espresso Bar in Ladd’s Addition, http://www.palio-in-ladds.com/ and we mentioned the situation we encountered, and the man behind the counter, and he said they treat all people equally there.

Okay, we found a place for the police to get a cup of coffee. And us.
Share and Enjoy:

124 comments

By Cornelia Seigneur – May 22, 2010
124 Responses

 

[tellner]

I've been to events at The Red&Black a couple times. It's an anarchist-friendly place. Real anarchist. They're an IWW shop with everything that implies. The guy who told the cop to take a hike wasn't "the manager" or "the owner". The place is collectively run and managed.

Did he speak for all the workers there? Nope.
Did he speak for most of them? Who knows?

 

[tellner]

Was the guy behind the counter out of line?

I'd say no. Any business has the right to decide with whom it will choose to do business. And a business has the right to institute a dress code. If cops and people wearing blue polyester don't qualify they don't qualify. If you aren't dressed right you don't get into the best clubs. If Management doesn't like you you can be "excluded" from the mall. If a guy running a coffee shop thinks cops will lower the tone of the place and drive away the regular customers he's absolutely within his rights to make that decision. Given the usual clientèle that probably wouldn't be far off the mark.

Libertarians, Objectivists and the rest of that crowd should be ecstatic. They are always talking about the importance of freedom and contracts. Just last week Rand Paul went on and on about how businesses should not be forced to serve Negroes. Those sorts of statist restrictions only apply to the government, not Private Enterprise. The manager was exercising his freedom to maximize the business' utility through rational self-interest. If some government official gets his tax-fattened snout out of joint at that, well that's just too bad, isn't it? The freedom to refuse service doesn't mean anything unless you can actually refuse service.

Who will they call if there's a crime at the cafe? The police. Again, let's apply Conservative reasoning. Police officers sign a contract when they join the PPB. They have to preserve the peace, enforce the law and investigate crimes even if they don't like the citizens. That's the magic of Contracts at work.

Do I believe the crap in the last two paragraphs? Not really. The people who have been tossing this sort of stuff around towards others need to be on the receiving end of their own logic once in a while to know how it feels.

None of us was there, but I see a couple possibilities the news story didn't address. A lot of the crowd at R&BC is uncomfortable around the police. The guy in charge at the time may have had very good cause to believe they would be uncomfortable or feel threatened by a police officer hanging around. There have been other incidents in this town where cops want to make a place unattractive. So they show up and drive away the customers.

 

[RandomPhantom700]

I'd say no. Any business has the right to decide with whom it will choose to do business. And a business has the right to institute a dress code. If cops and people wearing blue polyester don't qualify they don't qualify. If you aren't dressed right you don't get into the best clubs. If Management doesn't like you you can be "excluded" from the mall. If a guy running a coffee shop thinks cops will lower the tone of the place and drive away the regular customers he's absolutely within his rights to make that decision. Given the usual clientèle that probably wouldn't be far off the mark.

Um, was this part of the tongue-in-cheek portion of your post? I couldn't tell.

At any rate, I don't know anything about this particular cafe, but I've been in similar fringe-themed establishments ("pseudo-anarchist", "avant garde" fill in whatever description you like.) I suppose it's their perogative to refuse service to members of the establishment if they want. It's still uncalled for, though. Some cops may be bullies with a badge, but most are not, and it doesn't sound, initially, like the cop did anything to deserve animosity.

 

[Carol]

Meh. It reads like a publicity stunt to me. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Archangel M]

Meh. It reads like a publicity stunt to me. Nothing more, nothing less.

Only if the reporter/blogger who broke the story was in on it. I doubt the worker or the cop would have made such a media issue out of it.

 

[Archangel M]

In a way this whole story is "typical".

If a cop gave CPR to a drowning child and saved it, odds are that you may see a small blurb in the back of the local paper. If a cop screws up or is refused coffee by some hippy vegan than it makes NATIONAL news.

Typical.

 

[Touch Of Death]

While the owner or whomever had every right to do what he did, these types of decisions make the news and the caffe will experience the consequences.
Sean

 

[tellner]

Um, was this part of the tongue-in-cheek portion of your post? I couldn't tell.

Yes, it was.

 

[MJS]

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/red_black_cafe_shows_portland.html



The real face of "compassion and equality".

I wonder who they would call if the store was robbed?

What an ***! I'm not going to bother reading the comments because I wont see anything different than I usually do. What amazes me, is that while certain people show a dislike for LEOs, they seem to forget that its the police that THEY call when:

1) they get assaulted
2) their car stolen
3) their house broken into
4) they get into an accident
5) to report fradulent use of their credit cards
6) are in a domestic violence situation
7) are lost and need directions

These are just a few of the many things. So lemme get this straight....the cops are the bad guys....but when you need them for help, they're suddenly knights in shining armor?

Like I said, this guy behind the counter was an ***...plain and simple!

 

[Cryozombie]

Libertarians, Objectivists and the rest of that crowd should be ecstatic. They are always talking about the importance of freedom and contracts. Just last week Rand Paul went on and on about how businesses should not be forced to serve Negroes. Those sorts of statist restrictions only apply to the government, not Private Enterprise. The manager was exercising his freedom to maximize the business' utility through rational self-interest. If some government official gets his tax-fattened snout out of joint at that, well that's just too bad, isn't it? The freedom to refuse service doesn't mean anything unless you can actually refuse service..

So... decide... which is it? Can the Cafe refuse to serve Cops, AND the Jewish deli down the street is free to turn away Muslims, the Sandwich guy in Philly doesn't have to serve Hispanics (anyone remember that thread?) etc... or does everyone have to be served period. OR, is it all one big Hypocrisy based on what the Touchie-feelie crowd thinks is and is not appropriate?

Cuz, mostly what I hear is: "Serve them Illegals, but let the Pigs starve!"

 

[tellner]

I'm just highlighting the hypocrisy of the so-called Libertarian types who think businesses should be free to discriminate against people based on the color of their skin but are angry that it would be applied on the basis of profession.

They can't have it both ways. If the R&BC worker was wrong, so are they. If their principles mean anything they should be supporting his decision as an exercise in freedom and individual rights.

Do you want my personal opinion? The guy behind the espresso machine was being a jerk but was within his legal rights. The laws banning discrimination on the basis of race, sex and religion are good ones.

 

[Carol]

I'm just highlighting the hypocrisy of the so-called Libertarian types who think businesses should be free to discriminate against people based on the color of their skin but are angry that it would be applied on the basis of profession.

They can't have it both ways. If the R&BC worker was wrong, so are they. If their principles mean anything they should be supporting his decision as an exercise in freedom and individual rights.

Do you want my personal opinion? The guy behind the espresso machine was being a jerk but was within his legal rights. The laws banning discrimination on the basis of race, sex and religion are good ones.

As far as I know, he was within his legal rights...or at least consistent with how they are applied elsewhere. "Choice of occupation" is not a protected class in the U.S. Civil Rights code...neither is being a smoker, for that matter.

Disagree a bit about supporting the worker's decision. I support his freedom, but I don't care for his judgement. I could legally show a 16 year old dude one helluva good time, but think I'd be called.....something other than someone that is exercising their individual freedoms.

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

I'm just highlighting the hypocrisy of the so-called Libertarian types who think businesses should be free to discriminate against people based on the color of their skin but are angry that it would be applied on the basis of profession.

Interesting statement here. I don't see anyone saying that this person didn't have a right to do what he did. Just that he was stupid for doing so. So.... where do you get evidence of hypocricy?

Do you want my personal opinion? The guy behind the espresso machine was being a jerk but was within his legal rights. The laws banning discrimination on the basis of race, sex and religion are good ones.

I actually would argue that he wasn't, not necessarily anyway. The officer had already bought his coffee. That entitles him to the same level of service, including sitting at a table or talking to others within the establishment, of any other person. He paid for it already.

Now if, when the officer first attempted to purchase his product, was told "we don't serve your kind here", then he would be within his rights. But unless that officer is causing an actual disturbance or receives a refund, he can stay.

But that would be something for the court to decide.