Portland cafe shows officer the door

[David43515]

Having read thier policy (Thanks for the link BTW) I`m pretty sure it`s illegal for a business open to the public. Keeping an individual out because thier action cause a disturbance is legal. Keeping out all members of a class of people because someone else doesn`t like them is imoral and in many cases illegal. But countering it probably isn`t worth the trouble.You pick your battles.

Reminds me of news stories I`ve seen here in Japan where pools and saunas refuse entry to people with tattooes (or to foreigners). Or one of the cities down south that banned facial hair for all city employees because some citizens complained that going to city hall and being waited on by men with beards "made them feel uncomfortable".

I`m all for being comfortable. But if someone`s appearance (NOT thier actions mind you) makes you uncomfortable it sounds like the problem is yours, not thiers.

 

[jks9199]

While people (including cops) may like to bandy about the "well lets see how fast we respond to calls at that shop" line...any cop who really would do that shouldn't carry a badge.

Which is something few people understand...

 

[Carol]

I actually thought the police officer's response in the article was very professional. It said in the article (or one of the articles) that he left immediately when he was asked, and that there were other places (methadone clinics) that he left when asked because he was simply not welcome, even though he was trying to protect the patients there.

Article said he worked that particular area. Doesn't sound like a guy that wants to **** where he eats, if you'll pardon the phrase.

 

[MJS]

Doing the same thing to a black man is illegal, remember? Doing so to a police officer (or a doctor or an NFL linebacker) is not.

Ressentiment strikes again!

My point was simply to show that in one case all hell would break loose and in another it seems that its ok. Of course, it would be possible for the cop to file his own civil suit for discrimination. I have to wonder what this clerk would think if the shoe was on the other foot and it was him that was told to leave, denied access to somewhere, refused service because of the way he looked, etc. I highly doubt he'd simply walk away, as he seems like one of those *******s that thinks its ok to do something when he's the one dishing it out. However, should he be on the receiving end, I'd bet it'd be a different story.

BTW, unless I've missed it, I still havent seen a clear cut reason as to why the cop was asked to leave. Because he was in uniform? LOL..thats laughable at best.

As I said earlier, for all those that hate LEOs, funny how its the LEO that gets called when something bad happens. Karma really is a ***** I guess. This reminds me of when I used to work in Corrections. Those same **** bags, seem to forget, when they'd drive me nuts, that it was me that controlled their phone time, it was me that gave them toilet paper to wipe their ***, soap to wash their smelly ***, let them out to eat, etc, etc. There're always subtle ways to **** with people, and I wouldnt be surprised if some sort of payback was given.

 

[MJS]

While people (including cops) may like to bandy about the "well lets see how fast we respond to calls at that shop" line...any cop who really would do that shouldn't carry a badge.

Oh I agree, and I eluded to this very thing in my recent post. But, I think its safe to say that right or wrong, it does happen.

 

[Empty Hands]

My point was simply to show that in one case all hell would break loose and in another it seems that its ok. Of course, it would be possible for the cop to file his own civil suit for discrimination.

Because in the one case it is perfectly legal and common, and in another case it is illegal. He might file that suit, but he would lose. It is perfectly legal to discriminate all you want - except for certain protected categories. Those categories are (in Federal law) race, color, religion, national origin, age, sex, familial status, disability, veteran status and genetic information. You will notice "job" is not on the list. No shirt, no shoes, no service? Not illegal. No construction workers? Not illegal. No cops? Not illegal.

Even "no men" or "no women" or "no blacks" might not be illegal if, for instance, the nature of a job required it. So turning a man away from working at a female strip club is also not illegal.

 

[Carol]

Absolutely correct. In fact, there was a famous case that was very similar involving Hooters. Hooters tried to keep their restaurants all female....or at least, everyone but the bouncer.

Some men sued. Court decided that it was OK for Hooters to keep the "Hooters Girls" and their image (without requiring any "Hooters Guys") but the chain must not restrict less visible roles (cook, dishwasher, manager, etc.) to women only.

Other areas...it is perfectly legal to require a priest be Catholic and a Rabbi be Jewish. However, it is not legal to require the part-time aid to the synagogue or rectory be Jewish or Catholic. It is OK to require that the person be enthusiastic and somewhat knowledgeable about the faith, but it is absolutely not a requirement that an aide be a particular faith in order to type up letters and send out mail

 

[Archangel M]

To me the most foolish part of the whole discussion was when the shop owner said that if he were being robbed he would call on his neighbors for help instead of the police. I`m sure they`ll get right on that.

I wonder how many of these granola crunchers are volunteering to help search for Kyron Horman?

http://news.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474978289121

Far easier so spout your Anarchist diatribe while others do the heavy lifting than it is to go out and do something. Something other than hang around a coffee shop and...well...spout Anarchist diatribe.

 

[shesulsa]

I wonder how many of these granola crunchers are volunteering to help search for Kyron Horman?

http://news.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474978289121

Far easier so spout your Anarchist diatribe while others do the heavy lifting than it is to go out and do something. Something other than hang around a coffee shop and...well...spout Anarchist diatribe.

While I'm sure there are many people who do this, I always hate to hear this kind of argument and really - what does it have to do with the conversation at hand?

Folks - google "Portland Police Shootings" and you might find a story about a mentally ill man who drew a gun and was fired upon over 20 times. He was failed by the state, btw. There are also many, many more stories like it.

It sounds to me like this amazing policeman UNDERSTANDS HIS BEAT. He *knows* what goes down in the area and why many people who frequent that cafe might shy away from police officers. He was gracious and accommodating and *didn't* take it personally.

He also understood it was the uniform that put people on edge. It takes class and an adult mindset to do this.

Why can we not talk about what a shame it is that the uniform has become tainted due to the actions of some bad apples?

I'd like to know what you perfect cops on MartialTalk.com are doing in YOUR communities and in YOUR precincts to ebb this nationwide problem?

Any Portland cops on the board? Speak up, please.

 

[Archangel M]

Folks - google "Portland Police Shootings" and you might find a story about a mentally ill man who drew a gun and was fired upon over 20 times. He was failed by the state, btw. There are also many, many more stories like it.

You mean the guy who shot another officer twice? How was THAT a problem? Mentally Ill or not. Shoot me and I will shoot you as many times as required.

 

[Archangel M]

While I'm sure there are many people who do this, I always hate to hear this kind of argument and really - what does it have to do with the conversation at hand.

When the shop owner said that if he were being robbed he would call on his neighbors for help instead of the police. I think that it has plenty to do with this conversation.

 

[shesulsa]

When the shop owner said that if he were being robbed he would call on his neighbors for help instead of the police. I think that it has plenty to do with this conversation.

Sure does. Why do you think they don't trust the police to get there soon enough?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Well, it is a state that considers it's citizens too incompetent to pump gas on their own without proper training and certification.....

 

[shesulsa]

Well, it is a state that considers it's citizens too incompetent to pump gas on their own without proper training and certification.....

Topic?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Topic?

Setting the bar for the citizens.

Hey...Seems my tongue in cheek comment was pretty spot on after all.

Red and Black Cafe Owner Explains Why He Booted Officer

Portland Police Officer Kicked Out Of Coffee Shop

POSTED: 11:09 am PDT June 8, 2010
PORTLAND, Ore. -- The co-owner of a southeast Portland coffee shop said he booted a police officer out of his café because he worried the officer would resort to unnecessary violence if something went wrong.Officer James Crooker went into the Red and Black café on Southeast 12th Avenue for a cup of coffee May 18. The shop's co-owner, John Langley, asked Crooker to leave because he is a police officer.The incident first came to light in a blog post written by Cornelia Becker Seigneur.Langley is a self-described anarchist. He said he asked Crooker to leave because many of his customers do not feel safe around police and if anything went wrong in his shop, he would not be comfortable calling police for help."If there's a police officer there, I wouldn't feel safe in that situation. I would feel worried that the officer might Tase the person or potentially shoot them for having a mental health issue," Langley said.

http://www.livepdx.com/portland-restaurants/23832501/detail.html

Such a good looking bunch too
http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/06/07/red-and-black-co-owner-speaks-out/

“I don’t have anything against this particular officer and I don’t know anything about him…A police officer in uniform makes people feel unsafe because of previous experiences,” says Langley, who describes his café as an “anarchist space.”
Langley said many of his customers are homeless and marginalized by the police. “We’re gonna value the people that have been victims of police violence. Some of them have talked about having their belongings being taken away or sprayed with water,” he said. “It is exacerbated by the situation in Portland right now. The response to the mental health crisis is shooting people and beating people to death.”

I'm sorry, but I must have missed the rash of homeless bums being beaten to death daily by Portland's StormTrooper Brigade.

Well, I hope now that the public knows that cops aren't welcome, that these good spirited and healthy anarchists aren't relieved of any of their proletarian wealth by their fellow anarchists. Actually, if they are true anarchists, they would welcome the chaos of a good uprising in store.

I suspect a health department inspection might be in their future. Gotta make sure the bean curd is really organic and fresh y'know.

I'm all for taking cops to task when they are bad, but this just strikes me as a group of paranoid angsty teens who need to grow the **** up already.

Maybe they can enroll in a good school and get certified to pump gas and start that lucrative gas dispenser attendant career path. :rofl:

 

[CoryKS]

Causing a worker or patron discomfort or distress for any reason (including violating our Safer Space Policy)

So what if I, the patron, feel discomfort or distress in the presence of the clerk? Can I make him leave? As "anarchists", I'm sure they won't mind if we toss the register-monkey and help ourselves to donuts and java. At least, they won't call the police. :rofl:

 

[MJS]

Because in the one case it is perfectly legal and common, and in another case it is illegal. He might file that suit, but he would lose. It is perfectly legal to discriminate all you want - except for certain protected categories. Those categories are (in Federal law) race, color, religion, national origin, age, sex, familial status, disability, veteran status and genetic information. You will notice "job" is not on the list. No shirt, no shoes, no service? Not illegal. No construction workers? Not illegal. No cops? Not illegal.

Even "no men" or "no women" or "no blacks" might not be illegal if, for instance, the nature of a job required it. So turning a man away from working at a female strip club is also not illegal.

Still sounds ****ed up, if you ask me. Of course, I found this post from Bob interesting:

"POSTED: 11:09 am PDT June 8, 2010
PORTLAND, Ore. -- The co-owner of a southeast Portland coffee shop said he booted a police officer out of his café because he worried the officer would resort to unnecessary violence if something went wrong.Officer James Crooker went into the Red and Black café on Southeast 12th Avenue for a cup of coffee May 18. The shop's co-owner, John Langley, asked Crooker to leave because he is a police officer.The incident first came to light in a blog post written by Cornelia Becker Seigneur.Langley is a self-described anarchist. He said he asked Crooker to leave because many of his customers do not feel safe around police and if anything went wrong in his shop, he would not be comfortable calling police for help."If there's a police officer there, I wouldn't feel safe in that situation. I would feel worried that the officer might Tase the person or potentially shoot them for having a mental health issue," Langley said. "

So, I have to wonder...if something 'went wrong' in his shop, who would he call for help? Sounds like the owner, the co-owner and the patrons all have 1 thing in common...they're a bunch of 'winners' for a more tasteful choice of words.

 

[Archangel M]

A la Forrest Gump...

"Sorry. I didn't mean to break the RULES in your ANARCHIST coffee shop."

Theres some irony in there somewhere.

 

[knuckleheader]

ANARCHIST coffee shop, now thats funny!

kinda like Funkin go Nuts:caffeine:

 

[shesulsa]

Some of you tout the Tea Party because the Guvment isn't doing what you want.

Some of you are cops - good ones, I'm sure (or at least you claim to be).

Some of you just don't like hippies.

Some of you don't like some of the stupid laws in Oregon.

How many of you have seen the Portland homeless harassed with your own eyes - their stuff taken away? How many of you who rue this action have been harassed by police because you were doing something legal and they didn't like the way you looked?

These people live this. There's a saying about a mile and moccasins. And I should know better than to try to shed light for the blind.

I'm out.