Popularity contest?

[bignick]

I'm definitely a nerd with strong geek influences...who studies how to beat up the jocks. :uhyeah: I think I tend to cross social groups. In high school, I was the senior class secretary and a member of the National Honor Society. Was a member of the track team and starting defensive tackle for football team(Runner up,MN State 9-man) , but kinda regret the football now(not too great for the body). But was also a 5 year letter winner on the Speech team and longtime member of the theater. Played tenor sax in the band and was a Boy Scout(Eagle Scout) until I turned 18. Graduated 6th in my class.

All in all, as I look back, I'd say I was a pretty popular guy. But, as I've interacted with people from other areas I've realized my school was a little different. There certainly was cliques and certain groups that hang out with each other more consistently but those bonds were pretty weak. There certainly unpopular people and people that were teased but they never fit into one group. It was never, this is a jock school where we give the nerds wedgies, or that the goth kids were always picked on. It didn't matter what "social group" you primarily associated with, nobody was safe from being the "unpopular kid". I guess you could say we learned to look beyond stereotypes and dislike people for who they really are.


Here in college, member of the ACM, heading to a conference and programming competition next weekend. VP of the university's TKD club. And not only could I tell you how many Super Star Destroyers there were, could probably list most of their names

 

[Chronuss]

Nerds are different to geeks. Nerds are smart. I should know, since I'm a geek. Nerds can be geeks, but not all geeks are nerds.

You can tell the difference. Geeks know how many Super Star Destroyers were built, and all their names. Nerds know advanced quantum physics and trigonometry.

hrm...don't know quantum physics...know trig. and calc...but don't know how many Super Star Destroyers were destroyed...

in school, I tended to keep to myself, stayed quiet in classes, got my A's, and got the hell outta there. did my computer classes, but stayed away from all the AP classes cause the teachers sucked. never liked acting, didn't wanna be a part of SGA, had no musical talent...all I wanted was my Martial Arts, my animé, and my video games, and later on a weight room. hell, I use to be in a clan on the MSN ZONE in Jedi Knight and BattleNet in Diablo II: LoD...so just how geeky is that...eh?...eh? :uhyeah:

 

[Dronak]

From an outsider's media driven view, it seems as if the US school system is nothing but one big popularity contest from start to finish, what with voting for class presidents, prom kings and queens, valor dictorians etc.

Kinda got me wondering what this would do to those who are unpopular to start with, having all of these events which just go to prove how much more popular everyone else is than they are.
Surely this can't be good for their already wailing self esteem?

it just seems that in the US that it is pretty much formalised, especially with the whole fraternity/sorority gig in colleges...

Yeah, from what I remember, there is a lot of popularity stuff in schools here. But I would like to point out that typically, valedictorian and salutatorian are not based on popularity, but rather academic achievement. It's pretty fixed by the numbers for those.

I suppose these popularity based events can be a problem/issue for people who aren't that popular, but I think it will only be so if they don't possess enough self-confidence to be satisfied with who they are. I was never very popular in school and I got teased sometimes for being one of the geeks/nerds, but it never bothered me that much. I was generally content with who I was and I wasn't going to let my peers decide who I should be. Not everyone can/will take that sort of stance though and they could have problems with all the popularity based things. I suppose they need something to help their self-esteem. Maybe their school will have "geek/nerd" clubs they could join so that they can continue to do what they're good at. And by being with others in the same sort of situation, maybe they won't feel as bad about themselves, especially if they end up doing really well in those clubs.

The fraternity/sorority thing never made tons of sense to me. I never joined, but from what I heard about them, the current members would haze you during the pledge/application period then after they picked on you mercilessly for weeks or months, they became your best buddies in the world. I don't get it. I also remember it being referred to as buying your friends. That's not to say all of them are bad, I don't really know how they work, just that I think this procedure, if it's what they use, doesn't make much sense.

 

[Simon Curran]

So it's even more confusing for an outsider looking in...

But it does seem like the so called geeks and nerds are the ones making an effort in their later lives (at least those we have here)

 

[MA-Caver]

So question now is... in keeping with the Martial Art theme of this entire board...

Does anyone experience the same thing at their Dojo/School? Is there a breaking of groups between ranks (in between classes I mean) or??

 

[bignick]

Oh...certainly...

Students of the same rank usually congregrate together because they're the people they work with the most and they know the best.

 

[Hand Sword]

So it isn't just a media generated impression then, it is reality?

I feel HollyWood bases there stuff off of reality, what you see on the screen, in terms of groupings and the social culture is present in the high schools. There are the "pretty girls", the "jocks", the "wise asses", "thugs", "nerds", "geeks", those that don't fit in with anyone, etc...Depending on what group you were in that's the point of view one would relate to. The captain of the chess team , or science club, were great in their own world, but, in the bigger picture, unless it's a chess match ot scienc topic, there only good enough to copy homework, or tests from by everyone else. No disrespect intended, but that's the truth.

 

[Simon Curran]

So question now is... in keeping with the Martial Art theme of this entire board...

Does anyone experience the same thing at their Dojo/School? Is there a breaking of groups between ranks (in between classes I mean) or??

Fortunately we are a pretty small club, and as such fairly close knit, but I can see where that may happen, as Big Nick says, they are one's longest aquaintences(sp)

 

[Shaolinwind]

So it isn't just a media generated impression then, it is reality?

I think it is.. And I blame the adults. They encourage class elections. They stifle independant thoughts and don't allow you to voice differing opinions, showing less independant thinkers that those who don't follow the crowd are bad or stupid. People like me (the geek in accordance to Adept's definition) don't get told they are good people and can achieve something in the world, and that all this crap doesn't matter in the end. They seem to take pleasure in humiliating under-achievers. Bad adults make bad children and our public schools have the lion's share of both.

 

[Simon Curran]

I think it is.. And I blame the adults. They encourage class elections. They stifle independant thoughts and don't allow you to voice differing opinions, showing less independant thinkers that those who don't follow the crowd are bad or stupid. People like me (the geek in accordance to Adept's definition) don't get told they are good people and can achieve something in the world, and that all this crap doesn't matter in the end. They seem to take pleasure in humiliating under-achievers. Bad adults make bad children and our public schools have the lion's share of both.

It sounds almost like a vicious circle then, any ideas on what could be done to break it?

 

[Shaolinwind]

It sounds almost like a vicious circle then, any ideas on what could be done to break it?

I wish I did. Common sense just isn't common enough.

 

[Simon Curran]

Do we have anybody here who would have considered themselves among the popular?

If so what is your take on the issue?
Have you found people resent you because of it?
Or is it vice-versa?

 

[MA-Caver]

Originally Posted by Chobaja
I think it is.. And I blame the adults. They encourage class elections. They stifle independant thoughts and don't allow you to voice differing opinions, showing less independant thinkers that those who don't follow the crowd are bad or stupid. People like me (the geek in accordance to Adept's definition) don't get told they are good people and can achieve something in the world, and that all this crap doesn't matter in the end. They seem to take pleasure in humiliating under-achievers. Bad adults make bad children and our public schools have the lion's share of both.

It sounds almost like a vicious circle then, any ideas on what could be done to break it?

How about Shakespere?..."First thing we do ... KILL all the lawyers."

 

[Simon Curran]

How about Shakespere?..."First thing we do ... KILL all the lawyers."

Yep, old Will did make some sense sometimes...

 

[Hand Sword]

Unfortunately there really is no way to break the "cycle", it's a matter of natural selection, that applies to every living thing on this planet--including us. some will always be faster, stronger, prettier, and come into their own, in terms of confidence than others . Outside of adult control, say in a classroom, kids have their own world. They live by the natural order, pretty ones get the attention, the bigger and stronger get what they want, usually by intimidation, or pounding you. You have to fit in, somehow, even if you make your own group, within the group (don't think so? ask the average nerd or geek about coping to deal with the others outside of chess class or the science fair). You can't take evolution out of the picture, no matter how cruel that sounds, or how many kids get picked on. Besides, with concern to this topic, isn't that how the martial arts developed and evolved--out of need for self defense?

 

[Feisty Mouse]

Unfortunately there really is no way to break the "cycle", it's a matter of natural selection, that applies to every living thing on this planet--including us. some will always be faster, stronger, prettier, and come into their own, in terms of confidence than others . Outside of adult control, say in a classroom, kids have their own world. They live by the natural order, pretty ones get the attention, the bigger and stronger get what they want, usually by intimidation, or pounding you. You have to fit in, somehow, even if you make your own group, within the group (don't think so? ask the average nerd or geek about coping to deal with the others outside of chess class or the science fair). You can't take evolution out of the picture, no matter how cruel that sounds, or how many kids get picked on. Besides, with concern to this topic, isn't that how the martial arts developed and evolved--out of need for self defense?

Social Darwinism is bogus, no offense.

Social systems are as we decide to contruct them, actually - kids aren't fighting to mate and reproduce the next generation.

 

[Nanalo74]

From an outsider's media driven view, it seems as if the US school system is nothing but one big popularity contest from start to finish, what with voting for class presidents, prom kings and queens, valor dictorians etc.
Kinda got me wondering what this would do to those who are unpopular to start with, having all of these events which just go to prove how much more popular everyone else is than they are.
Surely this can't be good for their already wailing self esteem?

What this does is create a huge disparity, an "us vs. them" mentality if you will. In extreme cases it turns into a Columbine situation, wherein the outcasts lash back at the popular kids in an extremely violent manner.

I work in the public school system in NYC. It absolutely IS a popularity contest. There is now a huge push to reintroduce uniforms in the schools. Many schools have already adopted a uniform policy, but the Chancellor won't go so far as to make them mandatory.

BTW, I was a nerd also. The thing was, I knew how to fight (started JKD at 10) so the bullies who picked on me got their tales kicked. They usually came back with 10 friends, so I got jumped alot. :idunno:

Vic www.combatartusa.com

 

[Hand Sword]

Social Darwinism is Bogus? Kids aren't fighting for the right of reproduction of the species? You deep down don't believe that do you? Just look at any situation in schools or outside of school for that matter. Kid's hang out in thier own groups away from adult control, so there is no Adults constructing their social systems. When you were in school as a teen especially, how much contact did you have from adults? No offense to you, but, if you truly beleive that you can control things, than you had to be one of the "COOL " people back then, or at least one who was confident, or tough enough to be left alone, or added to the group, for their own safety. As another point concerning your post-- Who has more sex teens or adults? All the fighting in the schools, amongst those age children, is almost always over another boy or girl. Social groups are strongest amongst teens, see what happens if a "nerd" asks the "pretty cheerleader out on a date-- He'll get pounded after, first laughed at by the girl, and her friends. Hormones rage more as teens, your fearless, invicible, "wont happen to me", looks like nature picked that time period out for species reproduction, no matter how human cultural rules relate. As I said, you can't take nature out of the picture!

 

[Shaolinwind]

I work in the public school system in NYC. It absolutely IS a popularity contest. There is now a huge push to reintroduce uniforms in the schools. Many schools have already adopted a uniform policy, but the Chancellor won't go so far as to make them mandatory.

There are a few pittsburgh public schools with a uniform policy in place. Appearantly it works out a lot, I personally think its a fantastic idea esspecially for middle school where one is much more likely to take flack for wearing poorly fitting hand-me-downs or unstylish discount store clothing.

 

[loki09789]

Social Darwinism is bogus, no offense.

Social systems are as we decide to contruct them, actually - kids aren't fighting to mate and reproduce the next generation.

Not as competition and natural selection of the fittest to reproduce per se, but to recognize that there is a pecking order/food chain and 'mutations' of social skill that are productive in a given environment while others are not....that perspective on it is fitting IMO.

It may be more metaphorical than in the past, but the successful ability to be socially 'popular' and therefore more likely to reproduce is very relevant to a point of hormonal explosions like middle school/HS years.