Pepper spray in a black belt test?

[deadhand31]

Hello. After leaving my school of 9 years for personal reasons, I started looking for a new school. There was another in town that I gave a look. I spoke with the man who runs it. He answered all questions up front in a straightforward manner, no contracts, great facility. All of the philosophies he gave I agreed with.

However, as I sat in the lobby waiting for my first intro class, a parent was talking about how for the black belt test, a student is to be sprayed with pepper spray then made to perform techniques and spar. This is done for all prospective black belts, regardless of age. Even minors have to go through with it. I asked the instructor if this was true. He confirmed it.

I understand pepper spray is more painful than harmful, however there is a part of me that just screams that this instructor has a total lack of judgement. Having been through a black belt test before, I can totally understand the value in pushing someone past their mental and physical breaking point. At this point, though, I'm starting to see this as more hazing than testing. Thoughts?

 

[ETinCYQX]

Not a chance I'd ever do it. NEVER.

 

[rlobrecht]

That's just crazy.

 

[Carol]

At this point, though, I'm starting to see this as more hazing than testing. Thoughts?

Agree 100 percent.

 

[elder999]

I understand pepper spray is more painful than harmful, however there is a part of me that just screams that this instructor has a total lack of judgement. Having been through a black belt test before, I can totally understand the value in pushing someone past their mental and physical breaking point. At this point, though, I'm starting to see this as more hazing than testing. Thoughts?

Is the instructor a LEO? As part of defensive tactics training, LEO's in NM have to get pepper sprayed and fight off three guys in the REDMAN suit, while retaining their sidearm.

Pepper spray can be harmful to those with respiratory issues.

I can't see doing this to children at all-then again, I can't see awarding black belt rank to "children" at all........

 

[bushidomartialarts]

Seems unreasonable to me, but just the sort of thing that some martial artists would buy into big time -- and I probably would have totally gone for it when I was 23.

Different strokes, etc. Though gassing minors strikes me as a bit much.

 

[Namii]

I agree thats taking it too far especially doing it to children. Its not like its the law enforcement academy.

 

[JohnEdward]

What is second degree test, being shot by a taser? I find it hard to believe minors getting black belts, even harder is they are subjected to pepper spray. I think there is a law against child abuse.

 

[geezer]

see next post...

 

[geezer]

I can't see doing this to children at all-then again, I can't see awarding black belt rank to "children" at all........

Awww Heck! You're just getting soft in your old age, Elder. Think of the Spartans, or the Dakota Sun Dance initiation. Or better yet... check out this clip. This is the way to train your kids to be real martial artists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CVu-AzMnDY&feature=related

 

[elder999]

Awww Heck! You're just getting soft in your old age, Elder. Think of the Spartans, or the Dakota Sun Dance initiation. Or better yet... check out this clip. This is the way to train your kids to be real martial artists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CVu-AzMnDY&feature=related

Hey, first off, I put "children" in quotation marks for a reason-I was only 16 when I tested for shodan myself.

Second, I am a Sundancer. More freaked out by 70 odd year old men piercing than I am by the young bucks.

 

[Balrog]

I understand pepper spray is more painful than harmful, however there is a part of me that just screams that this instructor has a total lack of judgement. Having been through a black belt test before, I can totally understand the value in pushing someone past their mental and physical breaking point. At this point, though, I'm starting to see this as more hazing than testing. Thoughts?

You have got to be kidding. No, I guess you're not - there really are people that dumb in the world.

 

[Nomad]

What is second degree test, being shot by a taser?

How did you guess? For third Dan, you have to spar against a Silverback gorilla while the instructor fires crossbow bolts at you, and for 4th Dan, they up the ante by switching it to 5 angry chimpanzees and an AK47.

Might seem harsh, but it really keeps the number of high-dan ranks down.

 

[MaxiMe]

How did you guess? For third Dan, you have to spar against a Silverback gorilla while the instructor fires crossbow bolts at you, and for 4th Dan, they up the ante by switching it to 5 angry chimpanzees and an AK47.

Might seem harsh, but it really keeps the number of high-dan ranks down.

Tjere went my mornig coffee right thru the nose...

 

[SFC JeffJ]

How did you guess? For third Dan, you have to spar against a Silverback gorilla while the instructor fires crossbow bolts at you, and for 4th Dan, they up the ante by switching it to 5 angry chimpanzees and an AK47.

Might seem harsh, but it really keeps the number of high-dan ranks down.

Hell, I'm getting ready to test for my third and we give the chimps the AK's.

 

[sfs982000]

I don't see the relavance in using pepper spray in any martial arts promotion test. I totally understand the relavance in using it as part of LEO or Military training, but for a promotion testing, especially one for kids, using pepper spray is just wrong.

 

[Ken Morgan]

Hell Indiana Jones must be a 10th dan in that school....

 

[Thesemindz]

I haven't done it. I don't want to do it. I don't have any intention to do it. But I can see it.

It reminds me of the sake test. Hours of sparring with shots between rounds. Never done that either. But I get it. It's a kind of shugyo. I wouldn't ever shoot a kid in the face with pepper spray. But that's me. I'm a softy. I could see adult students wanting it, and I could see instructors requiring it of their adult students. Personally, I never would. But if the students know going in, it's their decision. More power to them.

Not for me. But I can see the value of training to fight blinded and in pain.


-Rob

 

[Thesemindz]

How did you guess? For third Dan, you have to spar against a Silverback gorilla while the instructor fires crossbow bolts at you, and for 4th Dan, they up the ante by switching it to 5 angry chimpanzees and an AK47.

Might seem harsh, but it really keeps the number of high-dan ranks down.

Maybe this is something we in kenpo should consider.


-Rob

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Is the instructor a LEO? As part of defensive tactics training, LEO's in NM have to get pepper sprayed and fight off three guys in the REDMAN suit, while retaining their sidearm.

Pepper spray can be harmful to those with respiratory issues.

I can't see doing this to children at all-then again, I can't see awarding black belt rank to "children" at all........

In my day, it was mace, and yes, I've been maced right in the face as part of my training. I have also been through the CS gas chamber in the military - had to 'qualify' every year in fact.

It's not fun. I would not voluntarily do it again. I don't know if the instructor is right or wrong to do it; but knowing he did it, I would not choose to become a student there. He has a choice - so do I.