Otroverts

To late…. We all now know your terrible secret:)

I use to go to this bar in the Adirondacks in the Earle 80s. The owner there always dressed like he was at a disco. Hair, mustache, silk shirt with paisley pattern, shirt open exposing his chest, wearing a gold necklace, tight knit polyester, bell bottom pants and those high heeled shoes.

Now picture this guy walking over to a table of guys that look like and basically are bikers…. Are you surprised I just had to ask….ā€Do you have any idea what year it is?ā€ On multiple occasions…. And he never responded once to that question
Hey, I listened to the music and went clubbing a LOT but never did any of the garb. It was/is rare to catch me in anything but blue jeans.
 
People tend to group together or ā€œtribe upā€ for a lot of different reasons, some necessary for social or actual survival, others for convenience, income, or entertainment.

Here in the States, we are a cult nation. We love our cults, ooh mama, our cults are the best. Indoctrinate them young, watch them grow and run wild.

As a non traditionalist in Martial Arts, otrovert is a nifty new term to identify with. But to me, it’s just basic common sense.
Humans are definitely tribal, no doubt about it.
 
Hey, I listened to the music and went clubbing a LOT but never did any of the garb. It was/is rare to catch me in anything but blue jeans.
This was a disco dude right down to the gradient shaded tinted glasses…. I am pretty sure he thought he was a chick magnet. However the women with us at the time thought he was pretty goofy
 
Well some are, hence this new classification for a subset of the population.
I would even dare to say, most are. You definitely have a population of loners or those who are shut ins however, even many of these people have their own form of tribes in the form of social media groups.
 
I would even dare to say, most are. You definitely have a population of loners or those who are shut ins however, even many of these people have their own form of tribes in the form of social media groups.
They’re more likely introverts whereas otroverts simply don’t have any group mentality; they don’t understand tribalism but are happy to interact with tribes should the occasion be forced upon them and do so seamlessly; nobody could tell outwardly that they were bemused by the tribe. Put an introvert in that social situation and you’d see that they were uncomfortable.

I’ve grown to dislike being around introverted people as I find them hard work! There was a time I’d’ve tried to accommodate them, but it’s so unsatisfying a social interaction, I now just push them away in the face and walk off 😐
 
It sounds like they're just describing the typical Gen X'er. I'd guess that many, if not most, Gen-Xer's are otroverts. There's a lot of overlap, to be sure. Out of curiosity, I asked AI and this is what was returned:

There is a real overlap — but it comes from two different origins that happen to land in a similar behavioral space. When you put them side by side, the resemblance isn’t accidental; it’s the product of cultural shaping (Gen‑X) and temperamental shaping (otroversion) converging on similar outward traits.

🧭 Why they look similar on the surface
Many of the adjectives you noticed — authentic, low‑drama, independent, prefers depth, socially attuned but not performative — show up in both descriptions. But they arise from different mechanisms:
  • Gen‑X traits come from shared historical context: latchkey independence, distrust of institutions, analog-to-digital transition, and a cultural premium on self-reliance.
  • Otrovert traits come from internal wiring: how someone processes social energy, reads cues, and balances connection with solitude.
Because both forces push away from superficiality and toward authenticity, the behaviors can look almost identical.

šŸ” Where the overlap actually comes from
1. Authenticity as a core value
  • Gen‑X learned early to be skeptical of hype, marketing, and performative behavior.
  • Otroverts dislike shallow or high-volume socializing and gravitate toward genuine connection.
Result: Both present as ā€œreal, grounded, and allergic to BS,ā€ but for different reasons.

2. Low‑drama social style
  • Gen‑X tends to avoid emotional theatrics because they grew up navigating things alone.
  • Otroverts avoid drama because it drains their social energy and disrupts attunement.
Result: Both prefer calm, steady, emotionally intelligent interactions.

3. Selective social engagement
  • Gen‑X often prefers smaller circles because they value autonomy and don’t want to be over-managed.
  • Otroverts prefer smaller circles because they want depth and meaningful reciprocity.
Result: Both look like ā€œquality over quantityā€ socializers.

4. Competence + empathy
  • Gen‑X values competence because they had to figure things out without much guidance.
  • Otroverts value empathy because they’re tuned into emotional nuance.
Result: Both can appear quietly capable, observant, and emotionally steady.

🧬 Why the overlap feels so strong
The key is that Gen‑X cultural conditioning amplifies the parts of otroversion that are already understated, thoughtful, and connection-focused.

If you imagine a spectrum:
  • Extrovert → high stimulation, outward energy
  • Introvert → low stimulation, inward energy
  • Otrovert → relational, attuned, balanced
Gen‑X culture nudges people toward:
  • independence
  • self-regulation
  • authenticity
  • low social pressure
Those nudges align almost perfectly with the otrovert’s natural tendencies.

So when someone is both Gen‑X and otrovert, the traits reinforce each other rather than conflict.

🧠 A deeper layer: the ā€œbridgeā€ effect
Gen‑Xers often act as bridges between older and younger generations because they lived through both analog and digital worlds.

Otroverts often act as bridges between introverts and extroverts because they understand both social modes.

Put together, you get a person who:
  • reads the room well
  • adapts without losing themselves
  • values connection but protects boundaries
  • communicates directly but with emotional intelligence
This is why the overlap feels so striking — both identities produce adaptive, observant, quietly strong connectors.

🪜 The practical takeaway
The similarity isn’t coincidence. It’s convergence: cultural shaping and temperament shaping landing in the same behavioral zone.
 
I wonder if the majority of combat sporters/martial artists fall into this new category of personality types? Does chime with you? Are you bemused by large group social behaviours?


(Taken from ChatGPT via an article in the Guardian newspaper)

An otrovert is a recently identified, "third" personality type—introduced by psychiatrist Dr. Rami Kaminski in 2025—describing individuals who are comfortable in social situations but feel like permanent outsiders who never fully merge with groups. Derived from "otro" (other), they are characterized by extreme independence, original thinking, and a preference for deep one-on-one connections over group belonging.

Key Characteristics of Otroverts:

  • Independent Thinkers: They do not conform to group norms or peer pressure, often thinking for themselves and operating on their own wavelength.

  • The "Observer" Role: They are friendly and socially capable, often charming or witty, yet feel as if they do not belong to the crowd
  • Not Quite Introvert or Extrovert: Unlike introverts, they aren't necessarily drained by people, and unlike extroverts, they do not gain energy from being part of a large crowd or following the crowd's mood.
  • Deep Connections: They prefer meaningful, one-on-one conversations rather than being a "social butterfly".
  • Self-Worth: Their sense of self is not conditioned on group approval.

Dr. Kaminski cited historical examples of potential otroverts as Frida Kahlo, Franz Kafka, and Albert Einstein.

its weird but explains me, im a quiet person don't talk much but i have no problem being around people! i enjoy watching people! just like being by myself of course to much is to much sometimes but i get by,for about 3-4 years of trained by myself mostly here lastly that has become boring not training but training by myself need to be around other people when i train anymore. i dont just talk for the sake of talking, was rolling with this one guy great guy to roll with he was talking about how much butter to put on your toast with this other guy, forget that!! you talk to me make it interesting, examples would be the chemical make up of a planets atmosphere,what is the ground made of, etc.
 
Interesting reflection from Master Garmadon!
I wonder if the majority of combat sporters/martial artists fall into this new category of personality types? Does chime with you? Are you bemused by large group social behaviours?


(Taken from ChatGPT via an article in the Guardian newspaper)

An otrovert is a recently identified, "third" personality type—introduced by psychiatrist Dr. Rami Kaminski in 2025—describing individuals who are comfortable in social situations but feel like permanent outsiders who never fully merge with groups. Derived from "otro" (other), they are characterized by extreme independence, original thinking, and a preference for deep one-on-one connections over group belonging.

Key Characteristics of Otroverts:

  • Independent Thinkers: They do not conform to group norms or peer pressure, often thinking for themselves and operating on their own wavelength.

  • The "Observer" Role: They are friendly and socially capable, often charming or witty, yet feel as if they do not belong to the crowd
  • Not Quite Introvert or Extrovert: Unlike introverts, they aren't necessarily drained by people, and unlike extroverts, they do not gain energy from being part of a large crowd or following the crowd's mood.
  • Deep Connections: They prefer meaningful, one-on-one conversations rather than being a "social butterfly".
  • Self-Worth: Their sense of self is not conditioned on group approval.
I totally fit into that description. Superficial discussions are mostly a waste of time. I prefer sincere silence over superficial crap.

To the extent it applies typically to most MA, i dont know. I have not made a survey, but i know some senseis where where it likely applies.

However looking a the big mass in my dojo, I think it does NOT apply to most. Even there, I'm in clear minority.
 
Interesting reflection from Master Garmadon!
I’m always interesting. šŸ˜‘
I totally fit into that description. Superficial discussions are mostly a waste of time. I prefer sincere silence over superficial crap.
I don’t mind using a bit of small talk since it’s ā€˜social lubrication’. My go to opening line was taken from Prince Philip, ā€œWhat’s keeping you busy these days?ā€ It makes the other person think, ā€˜Oh he remembers me!’ even if you don’t, and then they gleefully regale a tale of…cucumber cultivation to you while you think about Muromachi era (1333-1568) swords and their fittings.

If they don’t respond back, I push them away in the face and walk off. Social interaction is a two way.
To the extent it applies typically to most MA, i dont know. I have not made a survey, but i know some senseis where where it likely applies.
Martial arts are peculiar and rather like musicianship; the accomplished practitioner requires decades of unwavering attention, you’re often terrible for several years initially, progress comes in fits and starts and practise can be tedious. What type of person would embark and continue along that path? I think we’re all a little…’distinct’ on this forum
However looking a the big mass in my dojo, I think it does NOT apply to most. Even there, I'm in clear minority.
Let’s see how many of them are still practising in 10-20 years time…they are different people.
 
I think being wary of the Barnum effect is a good idea when reading articles like this. It’s a little like reading the results of a personality test. The way the article is written, most people would reasonably see themselves as otroverts.
 
Martial arts are peculiar and rather like musicianship; the accomplished practitioner requires decades of unwavering attention, you’re often terrible for several years initially, progress comes in fits and starts and practise can be tedious. What type of person would embark and continue along that path? I think we’re all a little…’distinct’ on this forum
šŸ‘ in the sense "distinct" is synonymous with masochistic or addicted.

Or, having gained so much from the art, the thought of abandoning it seems like a betrayal of sorts.

Perhaps it is the one constant in our lives, being a part of us longer than all our jobs or relationships combined, throughout all our stages of development and life, through the good and bad - TMA has been a faithful companion, in my case going on 60 years.

It's kind of like being married, but a lot cheaper.
 
šŸ‘ in the sense "distinct" is synonymous with masochistic or addicted.
šŸ˜† I think any display of expertise is evidence of obsession and a high pain threshold!
Or, having gained so much from the art, the thought of abandoning it seems like a betrayal of sorts.
Or rather believing one has gained so much…it’s known as effort justification and, surpringly, is more profound when the task is unpleasant and unenjoyable. It’s particularly noted amongst members of the armed forces who resolve their cognitive dissonance at performing horrid tasks and even unjust fighting.
Perhaps it is the one constant in our lives, being a part of us longer than all our jobs or relationships combined, throughout all our stages of development and life, through the good and bad - TMA has been a faithful companion, in my case going on 60 years.
🤨 I agree but is it just effort justification? Maybe an objective view of what we do would be different. I suppose it keeps us off the street and out of troubleā€¦šŸ˜„
It's kind of like being married, but a lot cheaper.
šŸ˜…šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚šŸ˜…šŸ¤£
 
šŸ‘ in the sense "distinct" is synonymous with masochistic or addicted.

Or, having gained so much from the art, the thought of abandoning it seems like a betrayal of sorts.

Perhaps it is the one constant in our lives, being a part of us longer than all our jobs or relationships combined, throughout all our stages of development and life, through the good and bad - TMA has been a faithful companion, in my case going on 60 years.

It's kind of like being married, but a lot cheaper.
Great post. In so many ways, too.
 
šŸ‘ in the sense "distinct" is synonymous with masochistic or addicted.

Or, having gained so much from the art, the thought of abandoning it seems like a betrayal of sorts.

Perhaps it is the one constant in our lives, being a part of us longer than all our jobs or relationships combined, throughout all our stages of development and life, through the good and bad - TMA has been a faithful companion, in my case going on 60 years.

It's kind of like being married, but a lot cheaper.
I like the adjectives 'driven' and 'determined' better. It usually keeps people from going down a bad mental road that often happens when terms like masochistic or addicted are used. Even when they are fully accurate, trying to explain what we do to someone who has zero experience in the field using these terms is usually bad juju. Any of the common adjectives (B&D, S&M, MA, etc...) are accurate descriptors for many, but there is just way too many better terms of description to use. In a nutshell, some things are better said by not saying them at all. Showing them is Much better.
For example, I can tell you "I have a crazy hard workout routine", but until you see it, then see it again, then again, it is unlikely you will believe me.

This makes me think of the word 'gay'. Used to be a clean, wholesome, happy word. Now a persons first impression when hearing the word gay is far from any of these descriptors.
 
This makes me think of the word 'gay'. Used to be a clean, wholesome, happy word. Now a persons first impression when hearing the word gay is far from any of these descriptors.

I know a lot of gay people, some of them are among the best friends I have ever had. Clean, wholesome, and happy are among the words I would use to describe them.

The meaning of the word may have changed but it has definitely not become a negative, although a segment of society wants everyone to believe it is.
 
I know a lot of gay people, some of them are among the best friends I have ever had. Clean, wholesome, and happy are among the words I would use to describe them.

The meaning of the word may have changed but it has definitely not become a negative, although a segment of society wants everyone to believe it is.
I was thinking the exact same thing.
 
I know a lot of gay people, some of them are among the best friends I have ever had. Clean, wholesome, and happy are among the words I would use to describe them.

The meaning of the word may have changed but it has definitely not become a negative, although a segment of society wants everyone to believe it is.
Then put me in that segment. Wrong is wrong. Society has nothing to do with that fact.
 
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