Origin of kuzushi solely at the feet of Kano?

[Battousai]

This topic has come to my attention from a discussion on the ebudo board.
It seems to be the informed scientific opinion of many that kuzushi (unbalancing) was mainly developed by Kano, and that before his time it was hardly a part of jujutsu at all, and that the beginning of judo was the beginning of real kuzushi.

Now it seems to me that all of the martial arts have some sort of energy manipulation. And that for the concept of unbalancing as a whole within the art of jujutsu to have come from one man in the last hundred years or so is preposterous.

Do not Chinese martial arts and all others have some degree of kuzushi? Ofcourse known under a different name.

What sort of martial arts does not deal with unbalancing? I guess pre-Kano jujutsu was one of them from what I have been told.

Now if Kano developed unbalancing nearly from sratch, doesn't that make him the founder of the principles of aikido and aikijutsu?

 

[disciple]

What's unbalancing? Is it up-rooting? or just simply means unbalance the opponent? or are those three the same?

salute

:asian:

 

[Battousai]

Unbalancing, disequalibrim.
Using the opponents energy against themself in a sense.
It is their own energy that throws them, you shouldn't have to use any strength to throw the uki.

I guess Kano was the first one to think of not using strength to throw? And all jujutsu was centered around having greater strength?
I'm sure no jujutsu schools were ever influenced by chinese martial arts using energy manipulation or by any sort of aikijutsu schools as well... (sarcasm)

 

[Jay Bell]

It seems to be the informed scientific opinion of many that kuzushi (unbalancing) was mainly developed by Kano, and that before his time it was hardly a part of jujutsu at all, and that the beginning of judo was the beginning of real kuzushi.

This is impossible. Jujutsu schools had been using Kuzushi for centuries. The difference being that Kano sensei was an educated man. He tended to approach things in a very piece-by-piece, broken down manner.

He pointed out the idea of Kuzushi...he didn't create the concept of Kuzushi, it existed in Jujutsu schools back to the beginning. He just pointed out that it happened and how it existed.

Hope that helps some,

Jay

 

[disciple]

Dont forget about tai chi

salute

:asian:

 

[arnisador]

This might be worth mentioning on the Jujutsu/Judo forum as well. What's the link to the www.e-budo.com thread?

For those who don't know it, E-Budo is a great forum focusing on the classical Japanese martial arts but also discussing the newer ones and the Okinawan arts.

 

[Battousai]

Its a series of posts about my school. The part about kuzushi only comes up in the last couple of posts. So you can skip to the last page (3).

I guess because my school uses kuzushi and because some of the names of the throws are the same names that Judo uses the school should have heritage in judo. Thats what they say. I don't believe that my school has much anything to do with Judo, it is a jujutsu school.

Heres the url:

http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=102692#post102692

 

[Chiduce]

Originally posted by disciple

Dont forget about tai chi

salute

:asian:

Quan/Ch'uan! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

 

[Chiduce]

I think personally that Dr. Kano played a major role in the further development of kuzushi with his philosophy of judo. To my understanding Dr. Kano started with not more than 10 students. The philosophy of judo's breaking balance was not well known until the government hosted a tournament to determine which style would be called their official martial art. Dr. Kano's students won all of their matches except one; and that was a draw. At this time in martial arts history; the philosophy of judos' kuzushi or breaking balance was becoming a household name. Many jujutsu arts started to join the kodokan and associate themselves with Dr. Kano's philosophy (judo). Of course there were some jujutsu schools which did not join and some which were not accepted. Yet, they did acknowledge and incorporate Dr. Kano's conceptual methodology of judo's kuzushi into their respective systems. :asian: Ami Tou Fou! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

 

[Jay Bell]

Of course there were some jujutsu schools which did not join and some which were not accepted.

That's correct. The reason being rules to follow.

Yet, they did acknowledge and incorporate Dr. Kano's conceptual methodology of judo's kuzushi into their respective systems

I don't agree. As said above, the idea of kuzushi has been around since Jujutsu itself. Kano sensei just brought it out in the open as a piece by piece way to approach taking of balance.

 

[Chiduce]

I recently spoke with a friend of mine which is a kodokan judoka of over 27 years. I was informed that yes the essense of kuzushi dates back to aikijujutsu, jujutsu etc,. However, there was a difference between the jujutsu kuzushi of the jujutsu schools. The kuzushi they practiced was not as much scientifically based. Since Kano was an academic scholar; the kuzushi of the kodokan became more scientifically oriented. Thus, incorporating the sciences of physics and mathematics. This scientific approach of breaking balance using mathematical formulas with the angles, radaii, trajectory path motions, and dynamics of physics lead to more accute and precise throwing concepts and methodologies. So yes, the origin of kuzushi dates to the pre-Kano period of jujutsu and aikijujutsu. Yet, time led to the evolution of a more scientifically calculated kuzushi, with the help of Dr. Kano and his other trusted martial colleagues of the kodokan. This evolution of the actual scientific principles of physics and mathematics (charts, diagrams, axes, radaii and formulae) within the judoka's arsenal of breaking balance are the foundations for further improvement and conceptual evolution of future philosophical scientific judo/jujutsu/aikido methodologies. :asian: Ami Tou Fou. Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!