Wondering about Judo, BJJ, and Aikido.

[Eun]

I read that mordern Judo developed by kano Jigoro, who synthesized japanese jujutsu (柔&#34899 and sportnized it (partly by removing too dangerous skills for a sport). BJJ was also derived from Japanese JuJutsu, through another martial art giant, Maeda mitsuyo who transfered it to brazil (to gracie family). And it was also a school of japanese jujutus (Daito ryu Aiki-jujutsu) which influenced birth of aikido a lot.

All of these 3 mordern MAs were derived from a traditional japanese martial art, japanese JuJustus.

Then, we can say that all these 3 mordern MAs are a sort of cousins ?

 

[MarkBarlow]

Toss in Wado Ryu Karate, Hapkido, Yudo and, according to many, Kuk Sool Won. It's a big family.

 

[Kosho Gakkusei]

Yes, it's true that the arts in question were derived from the old art of Jujutsu but I wouldn't call them closely related cousin arts. Judo and Aikido are more like 2nd or third cousins once removed while Brazillian Jujitsu is the son of Judo.

Jujutsu is a generic term used to describe the hand to hand methods that were used by the Samurai warriors. Roughly translated it means soft or pliable art. It conveys that it is the skill of achieving victory in battle by yielding. There are/were many Ryu - schools or styles of Jujutsu in Japan. Koryu - old school Jujutsu was often taught as a subart of a particular school of sword, spear, & other larger weaponry. The Jujutsu schools would teach methods of unarmed combat & use of smaller weaponry such as the knife. Jujutsu curicullum included throwing, locking, choking, striking, disarming, & ground fighting techniques.

Jigoro Kano, the founder of Judo first studied Tenjin Shin'yō-ryū Jujustsu but because of his love for Randori (grappling contests), he studied many other styles to gather techniques he felt were useful. Other schools Kano studied in depth were Yōshin-ryū Jujutsu and Kito-ryū Jujutsu. Due to Kano's love for competition, Kano redeveloped Jujutsu into a sport and method of physical fitness which he called Judo. The original Judo curricullum included Nage Waza (throwing), Kansetsu Waza (locking), Shime Waza (choking), and Ne Waza (ground fighting) with Atemi Waza (precision striking) taught to a select few in secret. Over time Judo competition began to be centered more on throwing.

Morihei Ueshiba, the founder Aikido studied Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu. Aiki means to harmonize with energy as in to blend with an opponents attack and use his energy. Daito Ryu is best described as brutal Aikido with an emphasis on stiking and hard throws. Ueshiba softened Aikijujutsu to make it into a self defense system where one could avoid harming their attacker so he could use Aikido to promote the religion Ōmoto-kyō.

Mitsuyo Maeda learned Judo from Jigoro Kano and taught Judo to Carlos Gracie. The Gracie's obviously specialized in the Ne Waza (ground fighting) of Judo. The confusing thing is why was it called Brazillian Jujitsu rather than Brazillian Judo. The following quote will offer some insight.

It is not known why Maeda chose to call his style of judo "jujutsu". One explanation is that Kodokan judo wasn't as famous in the 1920s as it is today, and that the traditional term for similar Japanese arts was jujutsu. (In Brazil, the transliteration was more often Jiu-Jitsu.) This explanation seems plausible, inasmuch as the Japanese government itself did not officially decide that the correct name for the martial art taught in the Japanese public schools should be "judo" rather than "jujutsu" until 1925.

Quote taken from. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsuyo_Maeda

_Don Flatt

 

[Eun]

Thank you for your very detailed explanation!

But your explanation of Mitsuyo and BJJ is a bit different from what I read.

It is said that Maeda mistuyo didnt follow(and even disliked) Kano's idea and plan to transform JuJutsu into a mordern sport. Instead, Madeda pursued a more old(original) style of jujutsu and had about 1000 matches agasint wreslters and boxers in US and Europe.

And what he taught to gracie family was not kano gigoro's sportnized JuJutsu(Judo), but pre-judo style, old jujutsu.

The above is what I read from several MA columns in korea.

if that's right, it would be that BJJ is more like son of Maeda style old JuJutsu, rather than son of Judo.

 

[Kosho Gakkusei]

Thank you for your very detailed explanation!

But your explanation of Mitsuyo and BJJ is a bit different from what I read.

It is said that Maeda mistuyo didnt follow(and even disliked) Kano's idea and plan to transform JuJutsu into a mordern sport. Instead, Madeda pursued a more old(original) style of jujutsu and had about 1000 matches agasint wreslters and boxers in US and Europe.

And what he taught to gracie family was not kano gigoro's sportnized JuJutsu(Judo), but pre-judo style, old jujutsu.

The above is what I read from several MA columns in korea.

if that's right, it would be that BJJ is more like son of Maeda style old JuJutsu, rather than son of Judo.

I've heard similar misinformation but Maeda began his study of Judo at 18 years of age in 1895. The Kodokan was begun in the early 1880s. He had no other Martial Art experience exept some Sumo he had studied as a kid - that only went so far as he did not have the right body type for Sumo. His only other instructor was Tsunejiro Tomita (4th Dan when he started), who was his direct instructor under Kano. In 1904, 9 yrs later at the age of 27, Maeda, Soishiro Satake, & Tomita traveled to the US to demonstrate and spread the art of Judo as well as compete in challenge matches. In 1907, Maeda & Satake traveled to Europe to do the same until Maeda arrived in Havanah, Cuba in December 1908. Maeda spent the next 6 years competing in various challenge matches in Cuba and throughout Central (mostly) & South America. Maeda ended up in Brazil in 1914 and began teaching Carlos Gracie in 1917.

To call what Maeda was doing "Old Style Jujutsu" and attempt to differentiate from Judo would be a stretch. Competing in sport challenge matches is not a trademark of Koryu Jujutsu but rather of Kodokan Judo. Additionally, there is nothing technically of Japanese origin in BJJ that is not also found in Judo but rather there are techniques in Judo not found in BJJ. For example, in 1955 a Judoka named Masahiko Kimura defeated Helio Gracie in challenge match by breaking his arm with a Kansetsu (lock) taught in Judo Ne-Waza (ground fighting) called Ura Ude Garami (reverse arm entanglement shoulder lock). The Gracie's had never seen this lock before and included it in their system and named it the Kimura. If Maeda was teaching "Old Style Jujutsu" then he would have been introducing the deadly battlefield techniques that Kano removed. All of which can not be used in Randori (matches). Then today, the Gracies would have an art that teaches throws that cause a guy to land on his neck or spine and how to deploy a Tanto (knife) in grappling situations with a man that is wearing armor as well as various methods for slitting people's throats.

_Don Flatt

 

[still learning]

Hello, All martial arts are cousins. Man has been fighting each other since Adam met Joe?

If you read about Judo, Sensi Kano had learn both Aikido and Jujitsu. He than move on to develop a sport side call Judo today.

Judo is more than just throws, it has the locks, pins, choking,breaking, and,striking technques too.

Again it is the person who makes the art what it is or becomes. In vite all your cousins (Judo, BJJ, & Aikido) out for lunch? Loser pays. " ONLY KIDDING"

My uncle Karate, is related to my cousin Judo, who sister is Aikido, who has a brother name is BJJ, and on my mother side, is her dad who name is Kajikenpo, and his two sons, name boxing & wrestling. One of the sons marry a girl name kung fu, who brother is wing chun fu. On my dad side who has a brother in the military name General martial arts, two sons name Gun defense & Knife fighting. One of those sons has two kids name Running away & fighting back. My name is self defense, name after my mother (aka -still learning).

Aloha ,( We all have a big family tree)

 

[howard]

If you read about Judo, Sensi Kano had learn both Aikido and Jujitsu. He than move on to develop a sport side call Judo today.

Aikido did not exist when Kano created Judo. Kano created Judo in the 1880s. Ueshiba (who was over 20 years younger than Kano) did not start training with Sokaku Takeda in Daito-ryu until about 1915. He stopped training regularly with Sokaku in 1922; around that time he created Aikido.

Kano created Judo from his background in Jujutsu. If he ever had any exposure to Aikido, it would have been well after Judo had been in existence for some time.

 

[still learning]

Aikido did not exist when Kano created Judo. Kano created Judo in the 1880s. Ueshiba (who was over 20 years younger than Kano) did not start training with Sokaku Takeda in Daito-ryu until about 1915. He stopped training regularly with Sokaku in 1922; around that time he created Aikido.

Kano created Judo from his background in Jujutsu. If he ever had any exposure to Aikido, it would have been well after Judo had been in existence for some time.

Hello, Thank-you for correcting me! Aloha (still learning)

 

[Kosho Gakkusei]

Aikido did not exist when Kano created Judo. Kano created Judo in the 1880s. Ueshiba (who was over 20 years younger than Kano) did not start training with Sokaku Takeda in Daito-ryu until about 1915. He stopped training regularly with Sokaku in 1922; around that time he created Aikido.

Kano created Judo from his background in Jujutsu. If he ever had any exposure to Aikido, it would have been well after Judo had been in existence for some time.

Morihei Ueshiba was born in 1883. Studied Sumo as a kid and went into millitary service. While in the millitary he trained sporadicly in Yagyu Shingan Ryu. Trained in a little Tenjin Shinyo Ryu Jujutsu in 1901. Studied Gotō-ha Yagyū Shingan-ryū from 1903 to 1908. Started training in Judo in 1911 and Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu in 1912. Ueshiba decided to concentrate on Daito Ryu about 1915 and obtained his teaching liscense in 1922. Pre-WWII he taught Daito Ryu Aikijujtsu under his teaching liscense and toured with his instructor Takeda Sokaku as an assistant teacher. Although Ueshiba talks of revelations he recieved as early as 1925 that eventually led to Aikido it is historicaly established that he continued to teach Daito Ryu under his liscense until at least 1937. We have no evidence of Aikido being taught until at least 1942.

_Don Flatt