Opinions on Russian Systema

[Natitude]

Hello. New to MT and looking to start training. My goal is to train for self defense. Not looking to become a back belt, compete, etc. . I've been looking at studying mma, kindai-ryu jiu jitsu, and Russian Systema. I'm leaning toward Systema because it looks like it might be geared specifically for self defense. Does anyone have any experience with this style? Thoughts on it? Thanks for any info!!


"Protected by Shield"

 

[Xue Sheng]

I like the style, but there is an element of no touch knock out stuff in one of the branches I have little use for. However the other training I have seen is impressive, and I like its approach to training SD scenarios in multiple locations outside of the school. If I had a chance I would give it a try.

There is a Systema guy here on MT, hopefully he will see your post and be able to give you more info

 

[Natitude]

I like the style, but there is an element of no touch knock out stuff in one of the branches I have little use for. However the other training I have seen is impressive, and I like its approach to training SD scenarios in multiple locations outside of the school. If I had a chance I would give it a try.

There is a Systema guy here on MT, hopefully he will see your post and be able to give you more info

The school near me offers a free class so I thought I'd try it out and see. Have nothing to lose... Thanks[emoji1303]


"Protected by Shield"

 

[Brian King]

I like it.
Where are you located?

Regards
Brian King

 

[Natitude]

I like it.
Where are you located?

Regards
Brian King

I'm in Virginia. Near Virginia Beach.


"Protected by Shield"

 

[HW1]

Hello. New to MT and looking to start training. My goal is to train for self defense. Not looking to become a back belt, compete, etc. . I've been looking at studying mma, kindai-ryu jiu jitsu, and Russian Systema. I'm leaning toward Systema because it looks like it might be geared specifically for self defense. Does anyone have any experience with this style? Thoughts on it? Thanks for any info!!


"Protected by Shield"

My opinion of Systema from a limited point of view:
I train with a Systema guy. I like the scientific concepts of the style and a lot of the techniques shown to me are very good.

Cons and criticisms:
I don't know what flavor of Systema he's got but there are a few things I didn't like that kept me from considering training it.

1. They emphasize too much on relaxation, as in, most techniques will only work if you are completely relaxed. In a self-defense scenario, you are anything but relaxed. So he can flawlessly execute a technique in demonstration but all the soft pivoting and ballistic punching goes out the window when we spar (I get close and use FMA or Wing Chun) and I put the pressure on.

2. They train too much on getting hit, "This is how you absorb a punch," or "This is how to move your body to minimize damage of a knife stab," but man, how about focusing more on how not to get punched or stabbed. And again, these rely on relaxation and have never seen it in sparring.

3. Like Krav Maga (which I prefer over Systema) they steal stuff from other styles and call it their own. You won't know it unless you're familiar with styles like Silat or Wing Chun and their version of the technique is not better than nor improve on the original.

4. Very little weapons training (which is OK because it's not a weapons based style) but they pride themselves on knife and gun techniques which, from what I've seen, will get you killed.

This is just my opinion and I realize I may be a blind man describing an elephant.

 

[Brian King]

I'm in Virginia. Near Virginia Beach.

Enjoy your class. I do not know the instructor there so will be interested in hearing your opinion on the class.

Warmest Regards
Brian King

 

[Xue Sheng]

I'm in Virginia. Near Virginia Beach.


"Protected by Shield"

Please let us know how it goes.

 

[Natitude]

Please let us know how it goes.

Will do[emoji1303]


"Protected by Shield"

 

[Natitude]

Enjoy your class. I do not know the instructor there so will be interested in hearing your opinion on the class.

Warmest Regards
Brian King

Thanks! I'll let you know how it goes!


"Protected by Shield"

 

[Kickboxer101]

Any martial art will help you with self defence anythings better than nothing that's how I always see it

 

[Kenpoguy123]

No idea about the system but at the end of the day a punch is a punch a kick is a kick a block is a block (or a strike as in kenpo but anyway) all styles have different names for the moves but in stand up fighting the basics your punches kicks, blocks and stances will be similar so as long as your instructor knows his stuff and you enjoy you're all good.

 

[Natitude]

My opinion of Systema from a limited point of view:
I train with a Systema guy. I like the scientific concepts of the style and a lot of the techniques shown to me are very good.

Cons and criticisms:
I don't know what flavor of Systema he's got but there are a few things I didn't like that kept me from considering training it.

1. They emphasize too much on relaxation, as in, most techniques will only work if you are completely relaxed. In a self-defense scenario, you are anything but relaxed. So he can flawlessly execute a technique in demonstration but all the soft pivoting and ballistic punching goes out the window when we spar (I get close and use FMA or Wing Chun) and I put the pressure on.

2. They train too much on getting hit, "This is how you absorb a punch," or "This is how to move your body to minimize damage of a knife stab," but man, how about focusing more on how not to get punched or stabbed. And again, these rely on relaxation and have never seen it in sparring.

3. Like Krav Maga (which I prefer over Systema) they steal stuff from other styles and call it their own. You won't know it unless you're familiar with styles like Silat or Wing Chun and their version of the technique is not better than nor improve on the original.

4. Very little weapons training (which is OK because it's not a weapons based style) but they pride themselves on knife and gun techniques which, from what I've seen, will get you killed.

This is just my opinion and I realize I may be a blind man describing an elephant.

Interesting stuff. Thanks for the insight on it. I don't have a wing chun studio close to try out. Nearby I have access to Systema, kindai-ryu jiu-jitsu, bjj, mma, and Muay Thai. Any thoughts on those?


"Protected by Shield"

 

[marques]

I tried Systema a few months, with a known master, in France.

Good points:
- Relaxing and health
- Slow training (so I can understand something) before go fast
- Punches (to the body) without gloves

Bad points:
- Ridiculous sort of attacks
- Ridiculous knife defense (and attack) (edit after reading the other post: I trained many weapons, often. Online videos shows they keep on that way. Systema is many things)
- Longer distance traveled for some defenses than for the attack (and hidden by 'tricks').

Didn't work under little 'pressure' for senior students.

Usually I use softer language, but there are things... On the other hand Systema guys say "it is 4 principles". So you may find many things under the same name, different organizations...

Reviewing your options:

- MMA; if it includes wrestling, good. You will learn takedown defense. If not, you will still learn a bit of everything. But probably you will spend too much time on the ground. Little room for fancy things. Physical training.
- BJJ: Even more time on the ground. But it is great if you find yourself there (which is not the best position in self-defence).
- Kindai-ryu jiu-jitsu: No idea what is is. But I am always attracted by 'jiu-jitsu' (which is almost meaningless, anyway).
- Muay Thai: A lot of 'weapons', short distance and clinch included, as well as takedowns. Would be my first choice.

Go and try. At the end it depends on your preferences as style and training and pedagogy and training group... I guess you can try the 4 this month and start next month on one of them.

 

[marques]

Any martial art will help you with self defence anythings better than nothing that's how I always see it

There are things really bizarre / dangerous (for yourself) out there, actually.

Anyway for self-defence, 90% is avoidance, not to be there, and seeing things coming before the 'fight' itself. The other 10%, they are for fun...

 

[drop bear]

Geared specifically towards self defence is kind of a misconception.

Self defence is more of a tactical issue rather than a technical one.

It is like a rugby player taking wrestling classes to learn to tackle better.

 

[Natitude]

I tried Systema a few months, with a known master, in France.

Good points:
- Relaxing and health
- Slow training (so I can understand something) before go fast
- Punches (to the body) without gloves

Bad points:
- Ridiculous sort of attacks
- Ridiculous knife defense (and attack) (edit after reading the other post: I trained many weapons, often. Online videos shows they keep on that way. Systema is many things)
- Longer distance traveled for some defenses than for the attack (and hidden by 'tricks').

Didn't work under little 'pressure' for senior students.

Usually I use softer language, but there are things... On the other hand Systema guys say "it is 4 principles". So you may find many things under the same name, different organizations...

Reviewing your options:

- MMA; if it includes wrestling, good. You will learn takedown defense. If not, you will still learn a bit of everything. But probably you will spend too much time on the ground. Little room for fancy things. Physical training.
- BJJ: Even more time on the ground. But it is great if you find yourself there (which is not the best position in self-defence).
- Kindai-ryu jiu-jitsu: No idea what is is. But I am always attracted by 'jiu-jitsu' (which is almost meaningless, anyway).
- Muay Thai: A lot of 'weapons', short distance and clinch included, as well as takedowns. Would be my first choice.

Go and try. At the end it depends on your preferences as style and training and pedagogy and training group... I guess you can try the 4 this month and start next month on one of them.

Thanks for your thoughts. I think that's the best route to go... Trying them out first to see. I feel Muay Thai is the best option, but the Systema threw me a curve when I discovered it the other night. The kindai-ryu jj is a style offered at a place near by. Here is a link to info on it.

Founder of Kindai-Ryu - Kindai Ryu

Thanks again[emoji1303]


"Protected by Shield"

 

[marques]

I understand your interest / curiosity by Systema. Why do you think I went there a few (3?) months? I also found it special. At the beginning.

Just try and think what is better for you.

For exemple, I like Muay Thai, but not the current Muay Thai training where I am (were?) going. It is 20 min warm up, 20 min being kicked (with pads), 20 min useful time (my turn). No sparring. Not very fun...

Try them all and come back with your feelings / conclusions...

 

[Tired_Yeti]

Hello. New to MT and looking to start training. My goal is to train for self defense. Not looking to become a back belt, compete, etc. . I've been looking at studying mma, kindai-ryu jiu jitsu, and Russian Systema. I'm leaning toward Systema because it looks like it might be geared specifically for self defense. Does anyone have any experience with this style? Thoughts on it? Thanks for any info!!


"Protected by Shield"

I've never tried it but I've seen it. It seemed..."odd", I guess. Had some gymnastics type stuff in it and stuff like a 1-inch punch type thing.

You might look into Krav Maga instead (if you haven't already)

Just my 2 cents.


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[Chris Parker]

Any martial art will help you with self defence anythings better than nothing that's how I always see it

Iaido.
Kyudo.
Kendo.

Just three of a very long list that have nothing to do with self defence at all… for the record…

No idea about the system but at the end of the day a punch is a punch a kick is a kick a block is a block (or a strike as in kenpo but anyway) all styles have different names for the moves but in stand up fighting the basics your punches kicks, blocks and stances will be similar so as long as your instructor knows his stuff and you enjoy you're all good.

Actually, quite the opposite is true, mainly because there's only so many ways to move a human body, the techniques themselves (individual punches, kicks, blocks etc) are rather meaningless and unimportant. What is far more important is the training methodology. Simply learning kicks and punches is like learning individual notes on a piano and nothing else… you need to learn how to put them together.

Interesting stuff. Thanks for the insight on it. I don't have a wing chun studio close to try out. Nearby I have access to Systema, kindai-ryu jiu-jitsu, bjj, mma, and Muay Thai. Any thoughts on those?


"Protected by Shield"

Visit the schools, and see which one gels with you. It's honestly the only real, practical advice that can be given… with the caveat that not all arts/systems are what they seem to be, or claim to be… if it was me, there's one on that list that immediately gets tossed out the window…

Geared specifically towards self defence is kind of a misconception.

That depends on what's being put forth as "geared specifically towards self defence", honestly. It can certainly be geared towards self defence very accurately and effectively… or it might be pure lip service because the person saying it doesn't get the difference between "I hit people when they attack, that's self defence, and I hit people in my martial arts, therefore they're the same thing"…

Self defence is more of a tactical issue rather than a technical one.

Yes, but of course the technical has to match the tactical… and the contextual realities.

It is like a rugby player taking wrestling classes to learn to tackle better.

How so? Are you simply assuming that a martial art class that has a focus on self defence doesn't really have one, because you can't see how it can happen?

Thanks for your thoughts. I think that's the best route to go... Trying them out first to see. I feel Muay Thai is the best option, but the Systema threw me a curve when I discovered it the other night. The kindai-ryu jj is a style offered at a place near by. Here is a link to info on it.

Founder of Kindai-Ryu - Kindai Ryu

Thanks again[emoji1303]

Cool. I'm going to head over to your thread on Kindai Ryu in a moment to give my thoughts there… one thing that intrigued me, though was the line at the end of your posts:

"Protected by Shield"

Is there a meaning to that? This is just me being curious, of course…. and I'll also offer some advice. If you want to end each of your posts that way, you may consider going into your user profile and making it your signature… saves typing it out each time!