Online Martial Arts Training Technologies. What works and what doesn't

[JowGaWolf]

I thought it might be good to post various things that people have found to make online training work for them as a student or teachers. What technologies worked, outdoor online vs indoor online. I'm curious to see what people have learned about the whole online experience using some of today's technologies.

 

[Koryuhoka]

I speak for Okinawan Goju Ryu and the Shorin based kata I practice. There is a great deal of detail involved in the transmission of Okinawan kata. The depth of detail that was transmitted to me is not something that I would not want to pass on through video. I would not "cast my pearls before the swine". And that has more to do with allowing young minds who are not mature enough to understand that karate theory can cause injury if misused.

Some threads and posts on many forums such as this are evidently from younger people. You can tell by the superficial nature of the questions and posts.

Many years ago I was on a particular forum and constantly had to tell people to stop giving advice on how to do "(enter ridiculous and dangerous practice)" , by people who clearly had no knowledge or training on the topic.

One kid came back a few weeks after taking such advice asking "is there something wrong with my hand... I have blood red dots all over it after doing "Iron Palm", did I do something wrong?"

The technologies are great for transmission of knowledge and certain levels of skill. But they can also be a detriment.

I am all for using it for closed-door students. For this purpose it is outstanding. I see some who post some kyusho theory on Youtube. I strongly disagree with that. You can see Oyata Sensei using kyushojutsu on people but he does not explain what he is doing. He is attracting those who may want to search this out. But they would have to seek out someone.

What I would do is create content on a medium that I could restrict and only offer it to a very, VERY select students. But this content would not be appealing to many. They would not see the value in the content. But they would be pearls to those who which they would be intended.

If I cannot give the full transmission of my art, I would rather not teach it. My experience has been that most people want the quick fix. They want to learn something they can use on their friends now.

So basically, I would use technology very restrictively.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I speak for Okinawan Goju Ryu and the Shorin based kata I practice. There is a great deal of detail involved in the transmission of Okinawan kata. The depth of detail that was transmitted to me is not something that I would not want to pass on through video. I would not "cast my pearls before the swine". And that has more to do with allowing young minds who are not mature enough to understand that karate theory can cause injury if misused.

Some threads and posts on many forums such as this are evidently from younger people. You can tell by the superficial nature of the questions and posts.

Many years ago I was on a particular forum and constantly had to tell people to stop giving advice on how to do "(enter ridiculous and dangerous practice)" , by people who clearly had no knowledge or training on the topic.

One kid came back a few weeks after taking such advice asking "is there something wrong with my hand... I have blood red dots all over it after doing "Iron Palm", did I do something wrong?"

The technologies are great for transmission of knowledge and certain levels of skill. But they can also be a detriment.

I am all for using it for closed-door students. For this purpose it is outstanding. I see some who post some kyusho theory on Youtube. I strongly disagree with that. You can see Oyata Sensei using kyushojutsu on people but he does not explain what he is doing. He is attracting those who may want to search this out. But they would have to seek out someone.

What I would do is create content on a medium that I could restrict and only offer it to a very, VERY select students. But this content would not be appealing to many. They would not see the value in the content. But they would be pearls to those who which they would be intended.

If I cannot give the full transmission of my art, I would rather not teach it. My experience has been that most people want the quick fix. They want to learn something they can use on their friends now.

So basically, I would use technology very restrictively.

Good news is the teacher can teach as much or as little as they want. I would teach somethings in public and other things in private.

Some of the advance stuff most people don't understand even when they train in person. I don't think I would teach something that may require me to come to another person's aid. There are some things I may have to physically break up or tone down before serious injury occurs. Almost like a ref in the ring.

My old school uses live camera feeds so that people who walk by the school could watch from outside if they were just passing by.

I used to be more protective of martial arts but in general most kung fu students don't know how to use kung fu. Using your analogy of pearls. Place a bag full of pearls out someone will take them. Show someone an ocean full of oysters, very few will take the time and effort to harvest the pearl. Martial Arts is the Ocean. Fighting is the bag. I don't plan on being the bag.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Do you have to move slower when teaching online for live streams?

 

[Blindside]

I hates it. Well, I hates group classes. Tried Zoom, tried Google classroom, YouTube live, whatever. Interaction is generally iffy, and I think shy people feel more pressure not to interrupt than they do in a live setting. If you are running a large class hardware is important, at least for me I can't keep track of everyone's technique without a big screen TV.

I found it helpful to have an assistant instructor monitoring chat but also be able to point out corrections on the fly where I don't have to be coming up to the monitor/big screen every minute and I can continue to model the exercise.

I actually found it very helpful to have a couple of my students actually going through the learning process so that them doing it can naturally generate questions friom the group and they run into sticking points. Feedback from having students is extremely positive on having example students as part of the feed.

Using it as a one-on-one or small group tool has been very useful. Usually where we are reviewing material they already have so they have a good frame of reference.

 

[Blindside]

Do you have to move slower when teaching online for live streams?

Generally yes, often the people on the class are looking at a monitor or worse yet a phone, so they can't pick up fine nuances well.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Generally yes, often the people on the class are looking at a monitor or worse yet a phone, so they can't pick up fine nuances well.

I watched an online class once and fast movements gave some cameras problems or maybe it was a bad Internet connection on their end. I'll record all classes but I want to make sure the live classes are as good as possible. I'll be starting with a small class of 1 or 2 so I'll have some time to work out some kinks

 

[dvcochran]

Learning a martial art Is a tactile education. So much is lost when the training is not in person. Not beings hands on just loses SO much in translation.
Live video has its place and a value in certain ways. But will never be a hearty replacement.
Watching live content is a 2-way street. The video has to be recorded at a high definition and the equipment playing back the video has to be of the same. For many, the carrier can be the bottleneck. Have a bad camera or a low resolution screen or old computer and all bets are off.
For me, there is usually not enough camera angles to really see everything anyway.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Any camera or webcam recommendations?

 

[Blindside]

Learning a martial art Is a tactile education. So much is lost when the training is not in person. Not beings hands on just loses SO much in translation.
Live video has its place and a value in certain ways. But will never be a hearty replacement.
Watching live content is a 2-way street. The video has to be recorded at a high definition and the equipment playing back the video has to be of the same. For many, the carrier can be the bottleneck. Have a bad camera or a low resolution screen or old computer and all bets are off.
For me, there is usually not enough camera angles to really see everything anyway.

I don't think anyone is saying it is a preferable option, but it is better than nothing.

 

[Instructor]

I did exactly one group zoom training session and found it to be a complete waste of time. One on one zoom training works reasonably well.

 

[_Simon_]

I thought it might be good to post various things that people have found to make online training work for them as a student or teachers. What technologies worked, outdoor online vs indoor online. I'm curious to see what people have learned about the whole online experience using some of today's technologies.

Great idea!

Having used online training for the majority of the last 18 months (as a student), I've absolutely loved it.

I'm certainly not of the belief that you can learn martial arts online, but as a valuable resource and supplement for those who already have a foundation, it has proven invaluable for me.

But I guess you're more posing the question from a more regular consistent online training program. I did and still do fortnightly sessions with one group I already had membership with. They started sessions midyear last year and they've been incredible. More recently they started an online remote dojo program which you train weekly on much a more in depth, progressive program. Both of these offerings have been so very enriching... and honestly have elevated my practice in immeasurable ways. Particularly because I've been searching out a dojo that I connect with, and this is the exactly the trajectory and style I've been looking for. Moreso, the instructor, and how he teaches. The ability to train with him consistently now when previously I would have to travel halfway across the world is... amazing haha.

So it's basically been not so much do this and that, but more of a presenting different insights and exploring them together.

So most of the sessions I've used were through Zoom, which I found very easy to use, barely any issues. Also used Facebook live video (which isn't great as it's one-sided, you can see them, they can't see you), YouTube live (which was pretty choppy and laggy at times), and Microsoft Teams (pretty good).

And all through last year, the opportunity to train with people from ALL over the world was just incredible...

The biggest thing I got from it was a broadened perspective. My primary art is karate, but training with such different styles was a real eye opener. The fact we had the technology and learned how to do this last year was such a blessing... was such and now still IS a bright spot out of a very dark time in history.

Also, getting your setup right hahaha... this took a little playing around, getting the camera in a good spot, with good lighting etc. And a room with enough space obviously. I didn't want to do it in the lounge room and have to move too much furniture every time, so use the back of the house.

Do you have to move slower when teaching online for live streams?

I haven't found this to be an issue with those who use a good camera and have good internet connection. The instructor's technique moves.... FAST haha.. but I can still very much pick up on the nuances. He still moves slow to demonstrate, but no issues when he moves fast.

Any camera or webcam recommendations?

My laptop camera was pretty shocking haha, so I tried some free apps on my iPod. First I tried was Droidcam, then the one I tried and have stuck with is iVCam. Really easy to connect and use, and I recently upgraded and bought the premium version to get better video quality.

 

[dvcochran]

This site does a good job of showing an elementary diagram of the necessary hardware to Send live content.

Fitness Instruction Technology Solutions

Fitness Instruction

bzbgear.com

The pan/zoom camera is very important IMHO; however this may mean you need someone to control camera motion. There are cool ways around this but it is not cheap. The PoE switch makes sense and makes things easier/faster in an environment that usually has finished out walls. The cabling. This is Huge and often overlooked. BG-SDI I personally would not use over 100'. If I needed to go farther I would switch to Rg-6. NOT 5 and especially not 3 (blue ethernet cable).
I do not know much about it but I see several of my clients IT guys using Wirecast software.

***Disclaimer*** I am Not promoting this site or it's particular equipment.

What they are describing is a standard platform for sending HD video. It still has very much to do with the room and the lighting. Usually too much light is not enough but it cannot be glaring anywhere or bouncing off of anything.
Lastly, even if you have a great feed, if you cannot receive or interpret it on your end it means nothing. In a nutshell, what works well on one end will work well on the other.

 

[Buka]

My buddy has live classes and zoom classes for those that don't want to come in. We tried to hook me up for zoom, but couldn't for some reason. I know most of his students for a long time, I was looking forward to harassing them. (all good natured, of course)

 

[Dirty Dog]

What works? Using these tools to supplement training with someone how knows their stuff. Also, learning variants of things you all ready know.
What doesn't? Trying to learn something new without a teacher.

 

[JowGaWolf]

What doesn't? Trying to learn something new without a teacher.

Totally agree. I think of when I was teaching. How many corrections did I have to make? How many times did I have to Pose students into the correct position because it was faster than trying to explain it. I know I definitely have a challenge before me.