On Being Ambidextrous in MA

[Blindside]

I am not aware of eye dominance. Can you tell me Sean what implications has this for practicing MA? Thank you.

I get impacts to rifle use, I am right handed but operate a rifle or bow as a lefty because I am left eye dominant. I am not aware of any impact to hand to hand skills.

 

[Blindside]

@Blindside, yes I think it is a nice-to-have. As you say, double weapons are also asymmetrical. Would your game be improved if you did not have to choose at all? Would it take much effort do you think since you are already used to manipulating weapons dually? The historical asymmetry that has given many of our MA a one-side-as-dominant approach, do you think this is the most effective practice or just how it is?

I suspect that the time and effort required to make my left as good as my right to have, to actually truly be ambidextrous with all actions with either hand would be better spent making an asymmetric structure X amount better. Historical asymmetry is probably driven as much by military doctrine as anything else, a guy using a left handed structure in an organized shield wall probably just opened a hole in the line. Most modern martial arts are focusing on unarmed aspects which is the natural symmetric situation, but historical war arts focused more on weapon based arts, weapon based arts are largely asymmetric and that will impact how even the unarmed portion is taught.

If we look at combat sports, boxing hasn't had many champions that could switch leads effectively, in recent years the only one I can think of is Marvin Hagler, if it was actually a significant combat advantage you would expect to see it more regularly in the champion ranks.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I am not aware of eye dominance. Can you tell me Sean what implications has this for practicing MA? Thank you.

Well, for instance, I am left eye dominant; so, unless I turn my head to the right, shots coming from the right are harder to deal with than shot coming from the left. It is just more comfortable for us to deal with; so, lead hand stuff opposite your dominant eye, is more difficult than lead hand stuff on the same side as your dominant eye. Bottom line, don't think in terms of trying to be the same on both sides.
Sean

 

[Buka]

I suspect that the time and effort required to make my left as good as my right to have, to actually truly be ambidextrous with all actions with either hand would be better spent making an asymmetric structure X amount better. Historical asymmetry is probably driven as much by military doctrine as anything else, a guy using a left handed structure in an organized shield wall probably just opened a hole in the line. Most modern martial arts are focusing on unarmed aspects which is the natural symmetric situation, but historical war arts focused more on weapon based arts, weapon based arts are largely asymmetric and that will impact how even the unarmed portion is taught.

If we look at combat sports, boxing hasn't had many champions that could switch leads effectively, in recent years the only one I can think of is Marvin Hagler, if it was actually a significant combat advantage you would expect to see it more regularly in the champion ranks.

I think it would be a huge advantage in boxing. But I don't think you'll see it - it's just too difficult to do. Even in the championship ranks, where the athlete/fighters are more skilled, so too are their opponents.

 

[Jenna]

@X-S, aw that is terrible that you are left handed trapped behind a right handed facade. I wonder how easy it might be for you to adopt left-handedness again then? That would be interesting. Thank you for explaining Chinese attitude to left-handedness also.
@seasoned, yes, I agree with the time sacrifice if changing to stronger sides is necessary for a fighter. In terms of boxing, yes this is sometimes true and but on another boxing note, it is not always the case that left handers fight southpaw. Likewise it is easily possible for a right hander (like me) to mimic southpaw which I would have also done I agree too though with the to each his own sentiment, though I think what is in the best interests of students is always in the best interests of students whether it is fun or not and but that is just me, I think to teach MA is not always about being fun and but about protecting oneself. I think the aversion to the hard work of training the weaker side often puts people off. That is unfortunate I think.
@Chris Parker, and so same question, if you are accustomed to right hand practice, what happens if you are faced with a left-handed opponent?
@Jason Striker II, I like this idea too as it shifts attention from the slog of weak-side training and makes it more of a challenge or game. Thank you
@dancingalone, Beyond superstition and semantic I am not sure where this dislike of left-handedness comes from? It is not a nice thing that has happened. Thank you for letting me know what the old country is to you.
@Rich Parsons, yes, I touch type and play piano also and but with those I (and most people I think) use both hands simultaneously from the beginning and so I think that is less about ambidexterity and more about collaboration of the hands maybe? Does that sound right? I agree with doing drills with both sides. I think in the same way, if a student is used to doing this from the beginning then it is less of a hassle switching or trying to retrain the weaker side retrospectively. Agreed too that the brain can help I have found with mirroring. And I think once a technique is known on the one side it is often not as difficult as it seems to recreate that technique in mirror on the weaker side. Rather than trying to relearn on the other side, simply let the weak side act in mirror fashion. I have tried this and it does work Thank you again.
@Cyriacus, I have seen this frequently in the boxing. Can you tell me why you fight with this orientation? Thank you.
@Ironcrane, wow, I am encouraged to hear your progress. Also, I think your word of choice is a good one: persist Thank you for this.
@SuperFLY, I am glad you are practicing your Aikido with both sides. I am glad because not all Aikido schools in my experience do this and many seem to overlook left side which is silly I think. I wonder is it possible through perseverance to remove those feelings you mentioned of what is comfortable and what is "natural"?
@Em MacIntosh, can I ask please how you arrived at that wonderful state of being equally natural on both sides? Have you trained this way from the beginning or are you naturally ambidextrous? Thank you.
@Blindside, that is an interesting account of traditional right handedness in many of our MA thank you. I wonder with regard to boxers (and most other asymmetrical fighting arts) is a switchable approach not taught because it has no benefit or because nobody has yet proven the benefit? Is there much evidence do you know for either case? Thank you again.
@Touch of Death, Sean if that information about eye dominance is really true then I think it would have a big impact on our teaching? Why is not more made of this do you think? Also can you tell me how to discern which is your dominant eye? Is there an easy way to test this? Thank you.

 

[Blindside]

I think it would be a huge advantage in boxing. But I don't think you'll see it - it's just too difficult to do. Even in the championship ranks, where the athlete/fighters are more skilled, so too are their opponents.

There is shown to be an advantage for leftys in boxing and fencing, simply because right handed fighters don't spar/train against the left sided structure and are therefore less experienced at dealing with it. I have heard from friends who fence, that while left vs. left matches should be a mirror image of right vs. right, both fighters are usually so inexperienced at fighting another lefty that it is usually a bit of a mess. But that southpaw advantage isn't an argument for being ambidextrous, it is simply an argument for being a lefty, there is no perceived value of a southpaw learning to fight in an orthodox structure.

 

[elder999]

. But that southpaw advantage isn't an argument for being ambidextrous, it is simply an argument for being a lefty, there is no perceived value of a southpaw learning to fight in an orthodox structure.

In boxing, it can be an advantage to be able to switch from one hand to the other. Roy Jones Jr. and Marvin Hagler both switched from orthodox to southpaw in mid fight. IN MMA, Frank Mir also is a right hander who fights southpaw and switches.

The reverse really doesn't usuallt hold true for true southpaws, though, unless they fight from orthodox for a majority of the time.

 

[Jason Striker II]

There is shown to be an advantage for leftys in boxing and fencing, simply because right handed fighters don't spar/train against the left sided structure and are therefore less experienced at dealing with it. I have heard from friends who fence, that while left vs. left matches should be a mirror image of right vs. right, both fighters are usually so inexperienced at fighting another lefty that it is usually a bit of a mess. But that southpaw advantage isn't an argument for being ambidextrous, it is simply an argument for being a lefty, there is no perceived value of a southpaw learning to fight in an orthodox structure.

When I was in JHS and joined the boxing team I already had several years MA training and so naturally took a right-side forward (southpaw) stance. This did prove an advantage in the gym and in my first couple of bouts, when I was totally unknown. However, after this it became increasingly hard for my coach to find me matches in regular AAU tournaments as no one wanted a match with a tough southpaw. Result, I had a lot of "exhibition bouts" and few sanctioned fights.

Looking back, I think I would have been better off to learn to have boxed orthodox, which I did later, and used the southpaw stance as a surprise tactic.

 

[Touch Of Death]

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@Touch of Death, Sean if that information about eye dominance is really true then I think it would have a big impact on our teaching? Why is not more made of this do you think? Also can you tell me how to discern which is your dominant eye? Is there an easy way to test this? Thank you.

With both eyes open, place your thumb in front of an object, so that your thumb is blocking it from view. Now, close each eye, one by one, and the eye that places your thumb nearest the object is your dominant eye.
Sean

 

[AJPerry]

I'm definately right handed but surfed and skated with right foot forward.

I fight in either stance, prefering strong kicks with rear right leg but happily strike in close with right side forward as the flowing movements of Kenpo feel more coordinated this way.

Switching sides is great during fighting to confuse your opponent as long as you don't confuse yourself and use a technique that leaves you open to their power side.

We deliberately mix students up so they get to experieence facing people that will mirror their fighting stance, it's a good eye opener to how your movements need to change to defend and attack.

 

[Buka]

There is shown to be an advantage for leftys in boxing and fencing, simply because right handed fighters don't spar/train against the left sided structure and are therefore less experienced at dealing with it. I have heard from friends who fence, that while left vs. left matches should be a mirror image of right vs. right, both fighters are usually so inexperienced at fighting another lefty that it is usually a bit of a mess. But that southpaw advantage isn't an argument for being ambidextrous, it is simply an argument for being a lefty, there is no perceived value of a southpaw learning to fight in an orthodox structure.

That's not what I meant. I mean it would be a huge advantage in boxing to be able to fight equally with either foot forward. But that's just too difficult to do.

 

[elder999]

That's not what I meant. I mean it would be a huge advantage in boxing to be able to fight equally with either foot forward. But that's just too difficult to do.

That's called the Dempsey Roll, after Jack Dempsey.

Here ya go:

 

[Chris Parker]

@Chris Parker, and so same question, if you are accustomed to right hand practice, what happens if you are faced with a left-handed opponent?

In traditional techniques, often both are covered in the methods taught. When it comes to traditional weaponry, such as sword, it's not really a concern in many cases, so would honestly be more of a waste of time to cover it.

The modern side of things, however, gets a little more vague... In essence, our modern approach is taught more as a series of principles that can be easily adapted, and are often trained against a variety of attacks/opponents, including left handed, or unorthodox body shapes. Then there is the principle of "mirroring", which involves having the opposite foot forward to your opponent (if they have their left leg forward, you have your right), which has a range of strategic properties and reasons.

So what do we do when faced with a left handed opponent? Whatever fits the situation.

 

[Buka]

That's called the Dempsey Roll, after Jack Dempsey.

Here ya go:

That brought back some memories. I haven't heard that term in some time. (Thanks!)

I always considered the Dempsey Roll more of a tactic of footwork, and/or of the bob and weave. I remember trainers telling me it was better used against a taller opponent, rather than against a shorter one, but I found the opposite to be true for my own particular style of fighting. I remember Floyd Patterson using that on several occasions.

But I think that's just a particular technique pulled out of the hat when the opportunity presents itself. And it's big time risky.

I know of no fighter who has equal skill with either side forward. Sure, we all train and fight both sides forward. But not equally in individual technique. Not even the best Karate fighters of our lifetime. And certainly not in boxing. Boxing is just too much of a specialized fighting sport with too few options.

 

[Cyriacus]

@Cyriacus, I have seen this frequently in the boxing. Can you tell me why you fight with this orientation? Thank you.

Frankly, I dont really know. Im Right Handed, but Im just more comfortable going Southpaw.

I guess as far as Fighting and SD goes, it makes it very easy to get to the 'Outside' of a Right Handed Stance, and possibly makes Attacks harder for Your Opponent to Circumvent due to the fact that They are most likely more used to Engaging Right Handed Right Stanced Opponents. I figure Open Stance can make Takedowns easier, because Your Lead Leg is able to easily get behind Your Opponents.

 

[elder999]

I know of no fighter who has equal skill with either side forward. Sure, we all train and fight both sides forward. But not equally in individual technique. Not even the best Karate fighters of our lifetime. And certainly not in boxing. Boxing is just too much of a specialized fighting sport with too few options.

I have always had equal skill with either side forward......equally clumsy! :lfao:

 

[Buka]

I have always had equal skill with either side forward......equally clumsy! :lfao:

Me, too! And I've found I get my butt whooped equally by southpaws and orthodox fighters. (should that be "orthodoxers"?)

 

[Black Belt Jedi]

When I started training in Karate I use to be dependent on using my left side more than my write and when I got up to the advance level, I learned how to use both sides. I find it important because an attacker can come after you in either side, so it's best to become better prepared to utilize both sides efficiently. That's how I have been taught. If I find myself using my dominant side more often, I may not always win the fight, but if I switch it up, then I can decieve my attacker.

 

[SavageMan]

I find I'm just as comfortable going southpaw as I am leading with my left with my hands. But when it comes to my feet I struggle with my left side. As far as that is concerned I might as well hit you with a pillow as to kick you with my left side. Unless I'm doing kicking drills over and over again I can never seem to get a proper form down on my left. I'm just awkward. But when it comes to my hands I can switch out no problem with just as much power and speed. If anyone out there has any training tips on this one I'm a more than willing student.

 

[Jenna]

Thank you all for taking the time to reply. I am very grateful for your thoughts.

Rhetorically then, if you have a weaker side and I -as your opponent- know this fact, are you adequately prepared to counter me on that weaker side?