non-racial question

[muayThaiPerson]

this is NOT a racial question.

but why do most of the martial arts learned these days originate form eastern asia?

 

[Elfan]

Depends on what you include in the category of "marital arts." Western boxing, fencing, wresling of many varieties, have huge humbers of practiconers yet those often arn't considered "martial arts."

Its just the connotation of the phrase has come to be "some fighting art from east asia where people wear white pajamas."

Does that address your question?

 

[TkdWarrior]

it's same like "does every chinese lookin guy knows KUNGFU?"
the problem we don't considering boxing as MA or fencing as MA..
but unfortunately they r ... we think MA is that wat Jet Li or Jackie Chan do...
-TkdWarrior-

 

[muayThaiPerson]

oh, i meant the arts that civilians use for self defense. such as karate, judo, kung fu, etc. hand to hand basically

 

[Deathtrap101]

boxing is used as a self defense. and MA arn't just self defense, they are pretty much all fighting, but not all are hand to hand.

 

[Deathtrap101]

Oh, and to answer that question(im just taking a crack at it, i dont really have anything to back it up); probably because they were and probably still are the best at this stuff. Most of the good stuff just origonated there. Just an idea.

 

[Despairbear]

Originally posted by Deathtrap101
Oh, and to answer that question(im just taking a crack at it, i dont really have anything to back it up); probably because they were and probably still are the best at this stuff. Most of the good stuff just origonated there. Just an idea.

Um... Not at all. MA in the east (in my opinion) have continued survive because they where practiced as more than just a form of fighting. They became a tradition long after they where a out classed by the arms of the era. In the other parts of the world (I am speaking mostly of Germany and Italy) The MA where slowly replaced by the pistol and dueling with matchlocks became the propper way to defend your self. The bare hand and the sword where slowly phased out of popular custom and the pistol took their place. They did survive for some time as an exercise for the versoin of the "boyscouts" in the early part of the last centurey but again was slowly phased out for a number of resons.

As for any one "people" being better that another at MA this is simply not true. Every cutlure that went to war develpoed a MA to train to the next crop of warriors. The Huscarls (sp?) of Denmark started their trainign at the age of about 6-8 years and would spend the rest of their lives traingin at the the arts of comabt. The Spartans had a 13 year traing program for thier warriors and where known in their time to be some of the most deadly warriors alive. Training in the longsword schools of Germany and Italy would start as a child and the few who would reach master would not do so untill their 40's or 60's. For a time the Spanish held the field (aroud the 1600's) with their small well trained war bands who fought with the longsword and buckler and who would smash the halberd phalanx's of the Swiss who ruled the batle field before them. I hope I have shown just a little here of the fact that all people mave MA's and all people had their warriors. It is interesting what has survived to this day and what is being rediscoverd as people look into the old manuals. I respect asian MA's (and train in a feww of them) but I do not make the mistake of beliving that MA's only came from east Aisa nor that only asians can learn or did learn to fight with deadly skill.


Despair Bear

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by Despairbear
Um... Not at all. MA in the east (in my opinion) have continued survive because they where practiced as more than just a form of fighting. They became a tradition long after they where a out classed by the arms of the era. In the other parts of the world (I am speaking mostly of Germany and Italy) The MA where slowly replaced by the pistol and dueling with matchlocks became the propper way to defend your self. The bare hand and the sword where slowly phased out of popular custom and the pistol took their place. They did survive for some time as an exercise for the versoin of the "boyscouts" in the early part of the last centurey but again was slowly phased out for a number of resons.

As for any one "people" being better that another at MA this is simply not true. Every cutlure that went to war develpoed a MA to train to the next crop of warriors. The Huscarls (sp?) of Denmark started their trainign at the age of about 6-8 years and would spend the rest of their lives traingin at the the arts of comabt. The Spartans had a 13 year traing program for thier warriors and where known in their time to be some of the most deadly warriors alive. Training in the longsword schools of Germany and Italy would start as a child and the few who would reach master would not do so untill their 40's or 60's. For a time the Spanish held the field (aroud the 1600's) with their small well trained war bands who fought with the longsword and buckler and who would smash the halberd phalanx's of the Swiss who ruled the batle field before them. I hope I have shown just a little here of the fact that all people mave MA's and all people had their warriors. It is interesting what has survived to this day and what is being rediscoverd as people look into the old manuals. I respect asian MA's (and train in a feww of them) but I do not make the mistake of beliving that MA's only came from east Aisa nor that only asians can learn or did learn to fight with deadly skill.


Despair Bear

The Huskrals were Gothic warriors who knew MA. Every warrior knew some sort of MA. The MA wasn't superior or anything, but some were better trained than others.

The best example of those who drilled and drilled were the Mongols. They moved twice as fast, were twist as mobile and agile, fired three times faster than their counterparts, their siege equipment moved twice as fast, their tactics were better... It comes from drilling and growing up as a nomadic hunter (in the early Mongol days).

A lot of Eastern MA have died, some have lived on.

But what Eastern MA has what a lot of Western MA lacks (IMO, lacking the feature limits full potential of one's learning) is mind control/meditation/concentration. There is visualization, but not much more. Mike Tyson ironically, is a supporter of Eastern MA altough he doesn't show it and the tenets of concentration.

 

[Humble artist]

"Mike Tyson ironically, is a supporter of Eastern MA altough he doesn't show it and the tenets of concentration."

lol.
I sure did not know that,nice point though.
I know he once went to check out an aikido dojo while he was in Japan.He trained a bit I think,he threw a punch at an instructor and was pinned/locked in no time (there is footage of this,I think)
Not that they would have been brawling of course.

"but why do most of the martial arts learned these days originate form eastern asia?"
As previously said,this is a small misunderstanding.
When one thinks of martial arts,it is very usual (and maybe logical) to think of Asian martial arts (this is how public knows them)
Most likely there are legitimate western martial arts though.
When we think of western arts like boxing,wrestling etc. (always remember that terms like "boxing" are very common in Chinese MA) we will notice that they are "simple" if compared to a lot of philosophical,highly refined eastern arts which stress daily life in it´s many forms besides combat application (Possibly most important thing considered in budo no kokoro/Japanese martial arts practice is that of educating/raising ppl)
One could disagree with this of course,but those are more like martial sports (western arts mentioned above) than martial arts in different sense.

When you say that most of them come...
well there is some truth to it.Chinese have the longest war history there is and probably the largest number of martial arts styles (this is for Chinese,but consider the civilization and it´s influence on other countries surrounding East-Asia)

 

[MartialArtist]

They influenced others and the others influenced them.

India influenced China and China influenced India and visa versa.

The Mongols, China, Japan, Korea, Thailand... They all have connections.

Also, savate (French) has connections to China.

 

[Abbax8]

Here's a possibility. Gunpowder originated in the east, but it's application in battle was developed earlier and quicker in the west. Swords, pikes and empty hand fighting gave way to musket volleys and artillery. From the 1600's to the present, battle tactics were changing, the driving force behind the change being the technology of war. In the east, the traditional way of fighting ws revered as something almost sacred- then Admiral Perry showed up and gave Japan a very rude awakening. Like it not, modern arms and tactics rule. The martial traditions in Japan that we study survived longer because of the culture. If you wish to study western MA, it's easy, join the military.

Peace
Dennis

 

[RobP]

Originally posted by MartialArtist

But what Eastern MA has what a lot of Western MA lacks (IMO, lacking the feature limits full potential of one's learning) is mind control/meditation/concentration. There is visualization, but not much more.

That's not strictly true. The thing is most western MA were developed into sporting / character building systems (funnily enough in much the same way as some karate) rather than combat arts - after all the battlefield was ruled by technology than bare hand ability.

Older systems of western combat would seem to have been inclusive of a health / healing and spiritual element, which is reflected in modern western styles that retain their roots.

I fell there has also been a certain amount of "hype" regarding the spirituality of eastern MA - after all most of us grew up on Kung Fu the TV series

cheers

 

[Humble artist]

"Here's a possibility. Gunpowder originated in the east"
Yeah.It is a Chinese invention after all,along with some others that were possibly developed further elsewhere.

Just being analytical,but when firearms were introduced to Japan,they "borrowed" them,had them and after some time they left them and kept fighting with old weapons.
If I remember correctly,there is a note on how ?westerners? were to Japan and Japanese saw their firearms,then they developed them in half of a year and had them on their own...etc.
But I think they were adapted fairly well in East when it was time.

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by RobP
That's not strictly true. The thing is most western MA were developed into sporting / character building systems (funnily enough in much the same way as some karate) rather than combat arts - after all the battlefield was ruled by technology than bare hand ability.

Older systems of western combat would seem to have been inclusive of a health / healing and spiritual element, which is reflected in modern western styles that retain their roots.

I fell there has also been a certain amount of "hype" regarding the spirituality of eastern MA - after all most of us grew up on Kung Fu the TV series

cheers

There is a difference between character building and spirituality.

Even the sport styles teach a lot of things about character. But, sport boxing like you see on TV is not what MA (Eastern and Western) is about. Most notably, perverted by people like Don King, the plague of boxing.