No Shows -Kids and Instructors

[KenpoTess]

I don't know how many times Seig and I have shown up to teach Kids class and nobody shows up.. No Calls.. no email.. Nada.. this is getting really ridiculous~! For the size of our kids class it's getting pretty aggravating the parents don't call if they aren't coming. (yes we've made mention and posted signs many times), Last night (labor day) we were there.. no kids showed, Same as last friday. How do we get across to the parents.. if they aren't going to be there to let us know!! We drive 20 minutes to the school each night. So curiousity has me asking you how any of you deal with this.

2ndly.. We have quite a few Assistant Instructors who are not pulling their weight.. The same ones are there helping out in kids class.. but the others.. they only show up randomly for adult class.
Anyone else have this issue? I know Seig can pull them off the floor and talk to them.. I'm just curious how other school owners deal with this issues.
Thanks

In Respect,
Tess

 

[GouRonin]

If they don't show they still pay right? if they don't show they don't grade right? Tell the kids if they want to grade they show. Tell the parents that they're losing out on something they are paying for.

As for the instructors. Ask them. Maybe there is a reason that they are not pulling their weight. But remember, and this may not be the case with you, usually assistant instructors are not paid. A lot of instructors forget that little point.

 

[jkn75]

Question 1: Unfortunatley, you can't make people show up. You can only have policies in place to prevent it, e.g. they still have to pay, can't make up the class, etc.

Also look at when you are having classes. Friday nights and holiday evenings are hard to get people to show up. Parents may have taken the kids out of town for the weekend and then when they returned were just too tired to take their kids to class.

Question 2: Some instructors do not like to teach kids. Depending on the assistant instructors rank, they may feel they have achieved all they can. Some people who achieve a black belt may not be as motivated in their martial art anymore. Additionally people have lives outside of martial arts. There may be things in their lives that are keeping them from showing up.

Having an instructors meeting and saying that they are all a valuable part of the staff and their presence is needed, helps. Sometimes that is all that is required to get instructors to show up.

Additionally, what do the assistant instructors do? Do they ever run the classes with you supervising? Do they get to come up with a lesson plan for a day or a week? Get them involved with some of these things,(of course you have the final say and ultimate responsibility that students learn the syllabus youve prepared) and this may spark more participation.

Good luck.:asian:

 

[KenpoTess]

Right.. they still pay.. it's not the money.. it's waking Seig up an hour early to get to kids class and waiting around twiddling our thumbs whilst he grumbles.. That's the main issue.. I use that hour to work on my forms or tecs..

Nope nobody get's paid.. but they all Know the hours teaching are tallied up.. I think people are getting lazy tis all.. and unlike the old days.. Can't force them to participate.. Gee I miss those days~!*wg*
99 % of them are college students.. so they use school as their excuse.. can ya believe that~! hahaaa.. Maybe Seig and I are just in need of a break..

 

[KenpoTess]

Originally posted by jkn75

Question 1: Unfortunatley, you can't make people show up. You can only have policies in place to prevent it, e.g. they still have to pay, can't make up the class, etc.

Also look at when you are having classes. Friday nights and holiday evenings are hard to get people to show up. Parents may have taken the kids out of town for the weekend and then when they returned were just too tired to take their kids to class.

Question 2: Some instructors do not like to teach kids. Depending on the assistant instructors rank, they may feel they have achieved all they can. Some people who achieve a black belt may not be as motivated in their martial art anymore. Additionally people have lives outside of martial arts. There may be things in their lives that are keeping them from showing up.

Having an instructors meeting and saying that they are all a valuable part of the staff and their presence is needed, helps. Sometimes that is all that is required to get instructors to show up.

Additionally, what do the assistant instructors do? Do they ever run the classes with you supervising? Do they get to come up with a lesson plan for a day or a week? Get them involved with some of these things,(of course you have the final say and ultimate responsibility that students learn the syllabus youve prepared) and this may spark more participation.

Good luck.:asian:

Good points.. Thank you..
Yes we understand people have lives and that holidays & Fridays are 'off days' .. We are going to go back to the 3 days a week during the holidays coming up.. (Thanksgiving through college term break) That should help us some and give us a break too.

The Instructors meetings are a good idea..
The assistant instructors each take one of the kids and teach them at the studio and at the college class (2 nights a week) they go around and assist in Techniques etc.. and are alot of help.
We follow a scheduled sllyabus so if we can't be there one of the upper belts can take over..

 

[jkn75]

Originally posted by KenpoTess

99 % of them are college students.. so they use school as their excuse.. can ya believe that~! hahaaa..

This is the ultimate excuse. I never had a problem until I was in law school. My instructor then asked me to just come once a week. Although my schedule was tight, I was able to show up once a week.
Once a week is better than not at all.

 

[KenpoTess]

Originally posted by jkn75



This is the ultimate excuse. I never had a problem until I was in law school. My instructor then asked me to just come once a week. Although my schedule was tight, I was able to show up once a week.
Once a week is better than not at all.

We've even offered Saturday classes to those that can't possibly make it during the week.. we did it last year for a bit.. but then only a couple showed up.. and it really took away Seig's and my only time together..

 

[lvwhitebir]

Here's what I do. I don't assign people to specific days, that let's people's schedule flex a little bit. Then I can close for holidays because people can make up the time.

I'm lucky, in a way. I have classes 6 days a week to allow people plenty of class days and times to choose from. Of course, on those days that people don't show up... I'm still there but I can do my own workout, paper work, cleaning, etc.

One thing I would suggest you *not* do, is bring up the point that the parent (or student) is still paying for the class. That gives them the idea that they are paying for the time they spend in the workout when in fact they are paying for the benefits of the martial arts, in and out of class. If you bring up the paying issue, they are more likely to try to deal with you to make up for the time they lost and you lose twice.

As far as assistant instructors go... I'd make it some sort of requirement or privilege to teach classes. Then if they don't make some number of classes, no-shows of course, then they don't get any more of that privilege. For example club membership of some sort (e.g., Black Belt Club). They have to understand that part of being "black belts" is making and sticking to commitments.

WhiteBirch

 

[Nightingale]

an idea that I've seen used:

have a sign in sheet... students must sign in, and must attend a certain number of classes before they are eligible for their next rank.


for your assistant instructors:

1. are they required to teach for their next rank, or are they simply volunteering? If they're just volunteering, you have to take what you get, I guess.

However, post the class schedule in the office a month at a time. Have them initial in the squares for the classes they are assisting with. That way you have a schedule that they have committed to, they know when they're expected to show up, and you have something to call them on if they don't show.

If you don't compensate them any other way, and they're just volunteers, if the time isn't required for their rank, what about giving them say...one free private lesson for every five hours they help you out, or something like that...

a few ideas...

 

[GouRonin]

While I agree that teaching is an important aspect to being a black belt I am often of the thought that it is just a way for a school to take advantage of their students and have them teach for free. Not everyone wants to teach. It doesn't make them less of a practitioner. It just means that perhaps they won't be able to pass the art on as well. But not always.

 

[Nightingale]

a student of the art, in my opinion, is under no obligation to pass the art on. If they take the time to learn something, it is their choice whether or not to share it.

Personally, I love teaching, but not everyone is a teacher, and not everyone should be.

 

[Seig]

Originally posted by GouRonin

While I agree that teaching is an important aspect to being a black belt I am often of the thought that it is just a way for a school to take advantage of their students and have them teach for free. Not everyone wants to teach. It doesn't make them less of a practitioner. It just means that perhaps they won't be able to pass the art on as well. But not always.

I have to strongly disagree with you on this one. I know not everyone wants to teach, but if you are going to really learn the art and be proficient enough to be at the black belt level, teaching is an absolute must. You don't know anything half as well as you think you do until you start trying to teach it to someone that has no clue what you are talking about. It's what helps you really develop insight and understanding to what you do.

Originally posted by nightingale8472

a student of the art, in my opinion, is under no obligation to pass the art on. If they take the time to learn something, it is their choice whether or not to share it.

Personally, I love teaching, but not everyone is a teacher, and not everyone should be.

Again, it's not about becoming a great teacher or even about really passing the art on, that's my job. It's about giving my students what I believe is an essential tool for them really understand what they are doing, not simply to regurgitate material. Let me put it in another light. Remember having to go to the black board in school? This is the same thing. Some love it, some hate it but it is an irreplacable tool for teaching and learning. I have made teaching a requirement for rank above advanced green. The ones that do not get in their hours are not invited to test until they do. Unfortunately, I have a few that when they do teach I wind up going behind them and cleaning up the mess. I have told them time and time again what they are doing is patently wrong....but I will deal with those indviduals in my own insidious time and way.

 

[Nightingale]

my response was to Gou's comment about black belts teaching. I think at a black belt level, people should have a choice whether or not they want to teach.

At a green or brown belt level, however, I agree with you that teaching is an important tool. It helps them better understand what they know, have some idea of what they don't know, and you an opportunity to watch them in action.

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Seig
I have to strongly disagree with you on this one. I know not everyone wants to teach, but if you are going to really learn the art and be proficient enough to be at the black belt level, teaching is an absolute must. You don't know anything half as well as you think you do until you start trying to teach it to someone that has no clue what you are talking about. It's what helps you really develop insight and understanding to what you do.

I don't think I disagreed that teaching was not needed to understand an art. I said it was a good thing. I just said it was abused. I also think some people should NOT teach just as much as there are those who SHOULD.

Originally posted by Seig
I have told them time and time again what they are doing is patently wrong....

I would put forth that this might a problem with much of American Kenpo today. Nothing is "wrong." Just that there are things that are "More effective, effective, and least effective." It always strikes me as odd that with so many people doing AK why is it that so many people are telling everyone else they are wrong?

My 2 cents.

 

[KenpoTess]

Originally posted by GouRonin



I would put forth that this might a problem with much of American Kenpo today. Nothing is "wrong." Just that there are things that are "More effective, effective, and least effective." It always strikes me as odd that with so many people doing AK why is it that so many people are telling everyone else they are wrong?

My 2 cents.

ahh a Teacher in college English.. grading papers on what the student interpreted from varied Poets works. Grading them as Failing. Big Red X's through the interpretations.. now that is what's occuring in our colleges today. How can one Fail in an Interpretation of Poetry? What I'm attempting to achieve here Doug, is, Once the Instructor Knows the basic material then they can modify or adapt to their hearts content. But following AK.. Each Tec is written in B/W.. If I see an Instructor teaching Delayed sword and using a backfist instead of a sword hand.. that is incorrect teaching, it's modifying the tec and turning it gray from B/W...
When I started teaching is when I started really learning.. sure I made mistakes. and was corrected, causing me to delve deeper into why I made the mistake in the first place and also challenging not to do it again. I'm not answering for Seig.. but for myself .. I understand your statement.. and not retaliating by any means.. just defining what I think Seig said by being patently wrong..

With Respect,

Tess

 

[GouRonin]

If you're talking about students teaching written material that you have in your curriculum not as you are teaching it then I would agree that it would be wrong.

Not to say that your written curriculum is wrong or right compared to anyone else's. I've bounced around a few places and each one of them claimed their written version was the correct one.

 

[KenpoTess]

Yes that's what I'm referring to.. we follow the IKKO written Curriculum and each instructor has their own copy of the tecs notebooks. If they aren't teaching it to the lower belts the way it's written, we can only then say it's 'wrong'.

Kinda off the topic .. I hear alot of the politics behind the AK Seniors scene.. On one hand.. if you take AK the way it was written by EP in that day.. it has to be modified for height differences, etc. It's evolved in many different areas and schools. When I first began Kenpo.. it was a combination of Kenpo, Jiu-Jitsu and Akido.. with emphasis on the Tracy system.
it was all good stuff.. but not True AK. So now Mountaineer Martial Arts is totally regimented in the AK System.

Diversity makes up the America's... the ability to be whom we choose to be.. Individuals ... And an AK Stylist can choose .. this is all good

Tess

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by KenpoTess
Yes that's what I'm referring to.. we follow the IKKO written Curriculum and each instructor has their own copy of the tecs notebooks. If they aren't teaching it to the lower belts the way it's written, we can only then say it's 'wrong'.

Then I would agree with that statement.

Curriculum really only is good for your school that you work out in or with similar schools that use the same curriculum. Once you step out the door the rest of the world uses a different yardstick.

 

[KenpoTess]

Originally posted by GouRonin



Then I would agree with that statement.

Curriculum really only is good for your school that you work out in or with similar schools that use the same curriculum. Once you step out the door the rest of the world uses a different yardstick.

Yeppers.. isn't it great .. If everyone was the same.. how boring~!!

 

[Seig]

Actually, what I was referring to had nothing to do with the how a student executed a self defense technique. What I was referring to was, for example, an advanced green belt showing someone to side kick using his knee as the source and power of the kick. This occurred after I had already worked with the student and had a Brown 2 continue working with him. The along comes the advanced know it all...... With all the injuries I have sustained through the years, I am big on executing bodily movements in ways that will acheive maximum speed and power while doing minimal to no bodily injury to the executer of the movement. This requires several elements, the first being the proper foundation. When I have a student put a crack in a new foundation, that is wrong. In most instances, I pull the offender aside and explain to them why they were incirrect in doing what they did and then work with them and "their" student.