No Shows -Kids and Instructors

[GouRonin]

Nevermind then.

 

[KenpoTess]

Man I wrote a litany for that.. hahaaa..

 

[artful dodger]

I have noticed that a lot of people get up to Black Belt and then leave once they perceive their place in that martial art to be primarily that of instructing. I have seen this so many times and I even left one martial art because of it myself. I was getting closer to black belt and I started noticing how everyone who got their blackbelt stopped training and had to assist in instructing. Then I saw them stop turning up. I changed to an organisation that I knew had a lot of senior dans, courses for seniors and a lot of seniors in their class. So when I got to that stage I wouldn't start resenting any assistance I gave. You need to look after your seniors. When the kids don't turn up it might be a good time to have senior training and to encourage the seniors to turn up to that session maybe you could devote time to senior training after every kids class, even if that means cutting down on the kids time a bit.

 

[FUZZYJ692000]

Originally posted by artful dodger

When the kids don't turn up it might be a good time to have senior training and to encourage the seniors to turn up to that session maybe you could devote time to senior training after every kids class, even if that means cutting down on the kids time a bit.

Our kids class is right before the adult "senior" class. The thing that I think Tess and Seig are trying to do though is some how get some of the other upper belts more active in teaching. There is always the same assistant instructors that help in both the kids class and the college class. I personally like working with the kids class more than I do with the college students, they don't have swollen heads and big egos yet. Hey Tess, I do like the idea of assistant instructor meetings though. I guess I can talk to you about that on Monday.
Sincerely one of your more dependable to show up or call assistant instructor,

 

[Stick Dummy]

Hey!

Asst. Instructors Meeting - Buy'em a pizza and let them talk before classes, after class is outta the question most nights for Seig.

Then they can try out their concepts and see if they're valid.

Goal Oriented Achiement for college students


Oftas clean my toys............

 

[artful dodger]

O.K, its a tricky one, and it highlights the problems all martial art schools have. Good thread as hopefully it will bring out some ideas to address the problem. But you gotta look after your seniors, I can't count the amount of times I have heard blackbelts wanting to leave and do another martial art (only to end up ion the same situation) because they don't like their new role as instructor rather than student. In saying that, at least you're left with the committed and truely intertested ones. Would social events with BBs outside the dojang help? Also use the particular talents of an assistant instructor (e.g, they are really good at self defence) and let them be IN CHARGE of that aspect of the training. Everyone wins that way and most people like teaching things they specialise in.

 

[Seig]

Originally posted by Stick Dummy
Buy'em a pizza and let them talk before classes

You want me to give pizza to this group? Before Class? It'd be back on my carpets chewed and half digested before the night was over. :barf: Talking before class for this bunch is not an issue

Originally posted by artful dodger
Would social events with BBs outside the dojang help?

We do a good bit of outside class socialization, at least when we can. Understand, too, that none of my students have their BB from me, yet. The closest ones have between 6 months to a year to go.

Also use the particular talents of an assistant instructor (e.g, they are really good at self defence) and let them be IN CHARGE of that aspect of the training. Everyone wins that way and most people like teaching things they specialise in.

What I am seeing here is that when I put on person in charge, unless it is Tess or myself, is jealousy rearing it's ugly head. I don't mean when they are teaching a child or an absolute beginner, but when they are teaching someone only one or two ranks below themselves.

 

[artful dodger]

I was imagining you had a few blackbelts floating around as assistant instructors. That's different then.

 

[lvwhitebir]

Originally posted by Seig


What I am seeing here is that when I put on person in charge, unless it is Tess or myself, is jealousy rearing it's ugly head. I don't mean when they are teaching a child or an absolute beginner, but when they are teaching someone only one or two ranks below themselves.

Are you saying they are jealous of you and are teaching them wrong because "they know it better?" If so, this can be a festering sore that needs to be either patched or let go or you'll have bigger problems later.

I would say that if you're giving out the rank, then you are *always* right. Not that you're infalible, but if you don't like the way something is taught, you correct it either with the instructor or with the student that learned it incorrectly. It's your responsibility in the long run to make sure the person is learning something this way for a reason.

I've had people teach something different from the head instructor (alright it was me...) and the student came back to me and said, "But sifu said...". If that's the response, then Sifu is always right and my method was the way I interpreted him/her. Granted I did it out of ignorance or misinterpretation instead of jealousy.

WhiteBirch

 

[KenpoTess]

Originally posted by lvwhitebir



Are you saying they are jealous of you and are teaching them wrong because "they know it better?" If so, this can be a festering sore that needs to be either patched or let go or you'll have bigger problems later.

I would say that if you're giving out the rank, then you are *always* right. Not that you're infalible, but if you don't like the way something is taught, you correct it either with the instructor or with the student that learned it incorrectly. It's your responsibility in the long run to make sure the person is learning something this way for a reason.

I've had people teach something different from the head instructor (alright it was me...) and the student came back to me and said, "But sifu said...". If that's the response, then Sifu is always right and my method was the way I interpreted him/her. Granted I did it out of ignorance or misinterpretation instead of jealousy.

WhiteBirch

Seig is the head instructor and what was meant is when an assistant instructor is chosen to teach.. the lower or same level belts .. some get their feathers ruffled .
Our school is just over a year old and 90% of the students have been with us since day one.. the ones that maybe have issues with the assitant instructors are ones that have lagged behind and watching ranks bypass them.

Tess

 

[lvwhitebir]

Originally posted by KenpoTess



Seig is the head instructor and what was meant is when an assistant instructor is chosen to teach.. the lower or same level belts .. some get their feathers ruffled .
Our school is just over a year old and 90% of the students have been with us since day one.. the ones that maybe have issues with the assitant instructors are ones that have lagged behind and watching ranks bypass them.

Tess

If the ones that get their "feathers ruffled" are the lower ranks then I've seen it before. They think that they should *only* be learning from you, not some other "student." In a way I agree, they are paying for your instruction. Otherwise they could just pay the blue belt. But, I also agree that you have to release the reigns and let under-belts teach because it gives them a deeper understanding. Maybe you need to make sure under-belts only teach a small percentage of the classes and make sure that people understand that this is a necessary element and essentially a requirement for advancement.

Other things I've seen that work good for this is to assign a particular night or class to the under-belts to teach. That way if people don't want to learn from them they can just avoid the class. It's frustrating to people when they enjoy learning from you and want to learn from you and randomly can't because someone else is teaching.

If the ones that get ruffled are the other people that aren't chosen to teach class, then you just have to let them know why and that their turn will come. That's definitely jealousy.

WhiteBirch

 

[Seig]

Originally posted by lvwhitebir




If the ones that get ruffled are the other people that aren't chosen to teach class, then you just have to let them know why and that their turn will come. That's definitely jealousy.

WhiteBirch

That sums it up quite nicely. Just Monday night one of my students overheard that two of her contemporaries were selected to test. She then came up asking for details about when she should be there. I had to explain to her that she had not been invited to test as I felt she was not quite ready......

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Seig


That sums it up quite nicely. Just Monday night one of my students overheard that two of her contemporaries were selected to test. She then came up asking for details about when she should be there. I had to explain to her that she had not been invited to test as I felt she was not quite ready......

Whoa! I feel for the girl! What'd she say in response to
that?

 

[Seig]

Originally posted by Kirk



Whoa! I feel for the girl! What'd she say in response to
that?

Nothing to me, I think she may have "vented" to one or two of her peers though. For the past few days, Ihave been talking to all of my students to see where they feel they are at and to let them know where I feel they are at. In most cases the two opinions are very close. I asked her last night how many of her techniques she knew "cold" and she told me, I believe, 8. Now the rank she is going for has 20. Still feel? Don't get me wrong, I like the young lady and she is a valuable asset to my studio, she just is not ready for brown 3, yet. Give her another few months and she will be there.

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by KenpoTess



Yeppers.. isn't it great .. If everyone was the same.. how boring~!!

Hey, who you calling boring?:soapbox:

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Seig


Nothing to me, I think she may have "vented" to one or two of her peers though. For the past few days, Ihave been talking to all of my students to see where they feel they are at and to let them know where I feel they are at. In most cases the two opinions are very close. I asked her last night how many of her techniques she knew "cold" and she told me, I believe, 8. Now the rank she is going for has 20. Still feel? Don't get me wrong, I like the young lady and she is a valuable asset to my studio, she just is not ready for brown 3, yet. Give her another few months and she will be there.

I feel for her, because she had to face reality, and sometimes
that hurts. That's all I mean by it.

If my instructor asked me how many I knew "cold", he would've
had to expand on that. I think our definitions of it are different.

Also, just out of curiosity when you talked to all of your students,
was it a one on one deal, or in front of the class? I've never been
comfortable tooting my own horn in front of people.

 

[KenpoTess]

Originally posted by Kirk



I feel for her, because she had to face reality, and sometimes
that hurts. That's all I mean by it.

If my instructor asked me how many I knew "cold", he would've
had to expand on that. I think our definitions of it are different.

Also, just out of curiosity when you talked to all of your students,
was it a one on one deal, or in front of the class? I've never been
comfortable tooting my own horn in front of people.

Reality does sometimes Hurt.. but hey.. uhh.. we all exist in reality.. maybe some of us don't realize that..*grins*

Since we went to the IKKO Curriculum (gee that doesn't look like it's spelled right.. oh well) we are not on the every 3 month testing schedule as we have been. Seig tests when ready. He takes the students aside privately for their one on one talks. Asks them where they want to be, where they think they are right now and then tells them what he's seeing of them.
Our class structure is :
All warm up together.. warmups led by Seig..
Then we break up into belt ranks.. and go over our material.. Seig makes his rounds continuously throughout the class .. watching and helping everyone. He rotates the upper belts around when they want a 'break' from their material so we are all integrated. Our group is a tight knit body
Brown belt is at the minimum a year .. we are still on the old belt system for the upper belts.. white, redstripe,(we didn't have yellow) orange, green, purple, honorary brown (not a rank .. as purple belts have a 6 month minimum requirement .. the honorary brown generally given after the first 3 months) then brown3, 2, 1 to black.. again a minimum of a year at brown belt.
The students who are purple /honorary brown normally would of all tested by Sept. but since we are implementing the test at own pace.. Some are feeling 'left out' but it's now by Invitaion only.. Seig watches all of us.. and if he invites us to test. great.. if not.. we keep working.. it's been common knowledge this is how it would work.. So if people have their own choice.. Be ready or not..

Hope this gives an insite into how we work



Hey Ricardo.. Did I call you Boring?? Hahaaa

Tess

 

[Kirk]

Pretty cool. It's similar to how my school does things (minus
the belt ranks). He'll put tabs on your belt of the next color, when
you've been taught all of the material. He'll then put red tabs on
the belt when he feels you're ready to test. Then it's up to you
to show up or not at the next belt test.

 

[KenpoTess]

Originally posted by Kirk

Pretty cool. It's similar to how my school does things (minus
the belt ranks). He'll put tabs on your belt of the next color, when
you've been taught all of the material. He'll then put red tabs on
the belt when he feels you're ready to test. Then it's up to you
to show up or not at the next belt test.

Yes it works Now the new students are being put on the IKKO belt system and we start them off white, yellow, advanced yellow with tabs or tape as we use now to signify where they are in their learning. We use a poster board for the kids also, giving them stars when they know the first 5 and second 5 of the yellow belt tecs, Salutation, Kenpo Creed, Yellow belt sayings, Short 1, and so on. For each star they get a stripe on their belt. So Seig or I just can take a glance at their belts and get an idea of where they stand. Maybe we need to institute something of the sort for the adult class.. ~! Sans stars that is..

We are using the advanced (Stripe through belt) for each new student achieving rank . Yellow, yellow stripe, Orange- stripe- Purple -advanced- Blue - advanced Green - advanced Brown 3, 2, 1 Black

Students know exactly what material they need to ingest before they test and without the every 3 month testing it's good and bad.. as they now are able to learn at their own pace and hopefully retain what they learn instead of cramming Everything into a 3 month study session. But the downside is, They grow complacent in their studies without a deadline. But I guess you can't have everything..

Tess

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by KenpoTess

I don't know how many times Seig and I have shown up to teach Kids class and nobody shows up.. No Calls.. no email.. Nada.. this is getting really ridiculous~! For the size of our kids class it's getting pretty aggravating the parents don't call if they aren't coming. (yes we've made mention and posted signs many times), Last night (labor day) we were there.. no kids showed, Same as last friday. How do we get across to the parents.. if they aren't going to be there to let us know!! We drive 20 minutes to the school each night. So curiousity has me asking you how any of you deal with this.

2ndly.. We have quite a few Assistant Instructors who are not pulling their weight.. The same ones are there helping out in kids class.. but the others.. they only show up randomly for adult class.
Anyone else have this issue? I know Seig can pull them off the floor and talk to them.. I'm just curious how other school owners deal with this issues.
Thanks




In Respect,
Tess

There must be some compensation (somehow) for those you are asking to help you.

To often, this is a sore point for many martial artists. They get used so much in working for others while the head man makes a profit. (not to imply that you're abusing your students)