No schools close, what about videos?

[Josh Oakley]

You can't even learn to effectively play a musical instrument by video, and a piano ain't trying to kick your butt.

I have a friend in conservatory who would disagree. Hell, Prince would disagree. He learned to effectively play 12 instruments on his own. You'd be surprised what you can teach yourself, especially when other methods of learning arent available. So, I'm not sure how well that comparison actually works for you.

Plus, with a scientific approach and a like-minded partner, you'd be surprised what you could come up with even without the videos. I'd definately say to get into a school the moment your situation allows, but for the time being, use what's available. How do you think sais and nunchaku first came to be used as weapons in the first place?

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

....How do you think sais and nunchaku first came to be used as weapons in the first place?

They went to a karate instructor. Duh! LOL

 

[IWishToLearn]

Wonder how many times the first dude to tie two sticks together whacked himself in the balls or the head before he figured out how to swing 'em right. Happened to me several times - usually when I got cocky and tried something more advanced than what I was ready for. *grin*

 

[Danjo]

I have a friend in conservatory who would disagree. Hell, Prince would disagree. He learned to effectively play 12 instruments on his own. You'd be surprised what you can teach yourself, especially when other methods of learning arent available. So, I'm not sure how well that comparison actually works for you.

Plus, with a scientific approach and a like-minded partner, you'd be surprised what you could come up with even without the videos. I'd definately say to get into a school the moment your situation allows, but for the time being, use what's available. How do you think sais and nunchaku first came to be used as weapons in the first place?

Here's the issue the way I see it. If you want to re-invent the wheel, then go ahead and teach yourself martial arts. Somewhere in the distant past, someone was self taught that started the ball rolling. However, I would wager that they were pretty crude in their early technique, and that each subsequent generation added a bit of sophistication (or at least those students who had enough talent and imagination) depending on their experience. So if you want to be a crude martial artist who has to go out and actually fight people in order to see if you're doing it right, go ahead. But that's a hard row to hoe. I would prefer to stick with finding a qualified instructor that can correct you in the school before you go out in the street, bar, or wherever, and find out that you're technique needs tweaking in order to actually work.

Let me give you an example:

When I was doing a punch counter once, my instructor looked at where I had thrown the guy to the ground and asked, "How did he end up over there? Do it again." When I repeated it, he said. You stepped back with the wrong leg. If you do it your way, look where his leg ends up. He's going to kick you in the balls. If you do it the right way, you can finish him off and his feet are facing the other way." Well, let me tell you, I'd rather have learned that lesson in class, than in the street someday after I found out the hard way I had left myself open to that particular move. Would I have learned it either way? Yes. But which would you prefer? Being "self taught" is doing it the hard way.

 

[MJS]

I have a friend in conservatory who would disagree. Hell, Prince would disagree. He learned to effectively play 12 instruments on his own. You'd be surprised what you can teach yourself, especially when other methods of learning arent available. So, I'm not sure how well that comparison actually works for you.

Question for you: Did your friend or Prince get any other formal instruction aside from what they learned on their own?

Plus, with a scientific approach and a like-minded partner, you'd be surprised what you could come up with even without the videos. I'd definately say to get into a school the moment your situation allows, but for the time being, use what's available. How do you think sais and nunchaku first came to be used as weapons in the first place?

I'm sure many new students can come up with many things on their own, but that does not mean that what they come up with is going to be remotely effective, that they're really going to understand what they're doing, and they're not being watched by anyone to make corrections. If the art I wanted to study was not available in the area, I'd do a few different things. 1) Find a different art to train in or something that was similar or 2) travel to where I could find that art. Now, this option is certainly not for everyone but if I was hell bent on training in that art, and the nearest school was 5 hrs away, planning a weekend trip and getting some intensive training over those 2 days, then going home and working the material and then repeating the process, would by the next best thing.

As for this comment:

How do you think sais and nunchaku first came to be used as weapons in the first place?

Yes, I'm sure that the person that invented these weapons, learned to use them on a trial and error basis. However, as time went on, new and improved ways to use them came about. I'm sure that the learning process is more productive now and would be under a live instructor, rather than trying to learn their use on my own. Many things can be done on our own, but that does not mean that its going to be the best way or the most productive.


Videos are out there, and people are going to use them. If that is the route that someone wants to take, then so be it. I still stand by my feelings that nothing can replace a live instructor.

Mike

 

[Josh Oakley]

Here's the issue the way I see it. If you want to re-invent the wheel, then go ahead and teach yourself martial arts. Somewhere in the distant past, someone was self taught that started the ball rolling. However, I would wager that they were pretty crude in their early technique, and that each subsequent generation added a bit of sophistication (or at least those students who had enough talent and imagination) depending on their experience. So if you want to be a crude martial artist who has to go out and actually fight people in order to see if you're doing it right, go ahead. But that's a hard row to hoe. I would prefer to stick with finding a qualified instructor that can correct you in the school before you go out in the street, bar, or wherever, and find out that you're technique needs tweaking in order to actually work.

Let me give you an example:

When I was doing a punch counter once, my instructor looked at where I had thrown the guy to the ground and asked, "How did he end up over there? Do it again." When I repeated it, he said. You stepped back with the wrong leg. If you do it your way, look where his leg ends up. He's going to kick you in the balls. If you do it the right way, you can finish him off and his feet are facing the other way." Well, let me tell you, I'd rather have learned that lesson in class, than in the street someday after I found out the hard way I had left myself open to that particular move. Would I have learned it either way? Yes. But which would you prefer? Being "self taught" is doing it the hard way.

In general I agree. That's why I got into a studio. But if the guy doesn't have any studios close, then videos and the scientific method will work for now. If you're stuck in the woods and you build a shelter, you're not reinventing anything. You're keeping the rain off your head until you can find your real home. If there's a good school, go to the school. But if there's no good school around, a good video will work. If there's no good video, a scientific mind and hopefully a good training partner will work. Either way, train train train.

 

[Josh Oakley]

Question for you: Did your friend or Prince get any other formal instruction aside from what they learned on their own?

Well, Prince I'm not sure of. My friend did not. His first three years on the piano, he taught himself from a book. He also happened to practice 5 hours a day, 6 days a week. And when he went to conservatory, he was among the top students (and moved onto composing).

 

[Danjo]

Well, Here's some information about Prince's musical background.

From Wikipedia:

"Prince Rogers Nelson was born in Minneapolis, Minnesota at Mount Sinai Hospital on June 7, 1958 to John L. Nelson and Mattie Shaw. John L. Nelson played in a jazz trio The Prince Rogers Trio, hence Prince's birth name...Prince’s parents formally separated and he had a troubled relationship with his stepfather causing him to run away from home. He lived briefly with his father, who bought him his first guitar..."

I don't know how really self taught he was given that his father was a musician. That might just be part of the legend etc.

 

[Xue Sheng]

How do you think sais and nunchaku first came to be used as weapons in the first place?

Farmers that used them everyday for farming decided it was all they had for weapons and since they had some previous experience with them they worked well.

However they did not go to a book or video that taught them how nor did they just invent a sai or a chuck and say, "HEY now here's a cool weapon, lets see if I can kill someone with it."

Learning by yourself to play the guitar without a teacher or any number of musical instruments is one thing and it takes TALENT. Learning how to properly take hold of someone and joint lock them or throw them to the ground is another.

Can you buy a martial arts tape and learn how to kick? Sure you can.

If you go and train Taebo with a teacher do you know how to kick? Most definitely.

But do you know how to defend yourself or do you know what it feels like to actually kick someone and how much power is required? Nope

 

[RichK]

From everything I have read I did not see you post where you are. You may be surprised that someone here may know something close by. If not lean towards Hapkido like you said.

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

Farmers that used them everyday for farming decided it was all they had for weapons and since they had some previous experience with them they worked well.

However they did not go to a book or video that taught them how nor did they just invent a sai or a chuck and say, "HEY now here's a cool weapon, lets see if I can kill someone with it."

Learning by yourself to play the guitar without a teacher or any number of musical instruments is one thing and it takes TALENT. Learning how to properly take hold of someone and joint lock them or throw them to the ground is another.

Can you buy a martial arts tape and learn how to kick? Sure you can.

If you go and train Taebo with a teacher do you know how to kick? Most definitely.

But do you know how to defend yourself or do you know what it feels like to actually kick someone and how much power is required? Nope

Perhaps with sparring? just a thought...

 

[Xue Sheng]

Perhaps with sparring? just a thought...

Exactly, that's my point.

In Video training there is no sparing nor is there any in Taebo. You may be able to copy the form but you do not know how to apply it. And if they show you 2 person sets on a video and you have no prior knowledge or an experienced teacher to turn to, you’re just an accident waiting to happen.

And it is not the same as teaching yourself a musical instrument. It is no harder or easier it is just not the same thing.

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

Exactly, that's my point.

In Video training there is no sparing nor is there any in Taebo. You may be able to copy the form but you do not know how to apply it. And if they show you 2 person sets on a video and you have no prior knowledge or an experienced teacher to turn to, you’re just an accident waiting to happen.

And it is not the same as teaching yourself a musical instrument. It is no harder or easier it is just not the same thing.

I've seen videos that teach how to spar, and they show two person drills. Now take those videos, find a partner and have at it. Now I know what you're thinking. "you need an instructor to correct you when you make a mistake". When your partner clocks you or catches you with a submission, you know you've made a mistake. Now analyze, scrutinize, improvise, and devise.

And who said that there is no sparring in taebo. that heavy bag moves just as much as any dummy/partner I've ever seen LOL.

While I don't quite like the idea of video training as the sole method, I know several who are video trained who I would put in my camp anyday. Brains and Determination can go very far and is often grossly under estimated.

 

[Josh Oakley]

Wonder how many times the first dude to tie two sticks together whacked himself in the balls or the head before he figured out how to swing 'em right. Happened to me several times - usually when I got cocky and tried something more advanced than what I was ready for. *grin*

How'd you manage to whack yourself in the balls????

 

[Josh Oakley]

Well, Here's some information about Prince's musical background.

From Wikipedia:

"Prince Rogers Nelson was born in Minneapolis, Minnesota at Mount Sinai Hospital on June 7, 1958 to John L. Nelson and Mattie Shaw. John L. Nelson played in a jazz trio The Prince Rogers Trio, hence Prince's birth name...Prince’s parents formally separated and he had a troubled relationship with his stepfather causing him to run away from home. He lived briefly with his father, who bought him his first guitar..."

I don't know how really self taught he was given that his father was a musician. That might just be part of the legend etc.

OK. Bad example. Prince is thusly stricken from the record.

 

[Josh Oakley]

Exactly, that's my point.

In Video training there is no sparing nor is there any in Taebo. You may be able to copy the form but you do not know how to apply it. And if they show you 2 person sets on a video and you have no prior knowledge or an experienced teacher to turn to, you’re just an accident waiting to happen.

And it is not the same as teaching yourself a musical instrument. It is no harder or easier it is just not the same thing.

There's no sparring in video training? Maybe if only done alone. Video training does cover sparring. Obviously, you'd need someone else to spar with. And I don't know how Taebo got into the equation.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I've seen videos that teach how to spar, and they show two person drills. Now take those videos, find a partner and have at it. Now I know what you're thinking. "you need an instructor to correct you when you make a mistake". When your partner clocks you or catches you with a submission, you know you've made a mistake. Now analyze, scrutinize, improvise, and devise.

And who said that there is no sparring in taebo. that heavy bag moves just as much as any dummy/partner I've ever seen LOL.

While I don't quite like the idea of video training as the sole method, I know several who are video trained who I would put in my camp anyday. Brains and Determination can go very far and is often grossly under estimated.

DOH!! I forgot the heavy bag

Agreed

OK. Bad example. Prince is thusly stricken from the record.

There's no sparring in video training? Maybe if only done alone. Video training does cover sparring. Obviously, you'd need someone else to spar with. And I don't know how Taebo got into the equation.

I don't know how Prince, or is it the artist formally known as prince that is once again known as prince, got into the picture either, but he did

Taebo was an example that is all, you throw kicks in Taebo, with an instructor in the room. But it does not mean you have a clue when sparring or actually fighting. Video training doesn’t even have the instructor.

Sparing in video with a partner without someone qualified to help you out, in the same room, can be dangerous. You also have no one to tell you when you made a mistake or how to correct it.

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

I don't know how Prince, or is it the artist formally known as prince that is once again known as prince, got into the picture either, but he did

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Taebo was an example that is all, you throw kicks in Taebo, with an instructor in the room. But it does not mean you have a clue when sparring or actually fighting. Video training doesn’t even have the instructor.

Sparing in video with a partner without someone qualified to help you out, in the same room, can be dangerous. You also have no one to tell you when you made a mistake or how to correct it.

When you get hit or subbed you know you've made a mistake (or several)

 

[John Bishop]

I've always thought it would be interesting to form 2 football teams. One team would be trained traditionally with coaches.
The other team would be given individual video courses for each members positions.
Both teams would be given the same amount of time to prepare for their game against each other.
Which team would you bet on?

 

[BallistikMike]

Same calibre player?

Does the team get to practice together like the one being coached?

Are they veteran football players or are they all newbe's?

Is the video instruction by the same coach coaching the team live?

I would love to see this experiment I think it would be great!