Ninjutsu is not a martial art.

dunc

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No. That technique is not correct at any level where you should be showing that to anyone.

You are describing a white belt teaching white belts dilemma.

So the principles are not ok. And I don't see how that would work.

So this is about master Wong. But basically the same idea.
Yeah upon reflection I have to agree with this
 

dunc

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Is the thumb more painful than being elbowed?
Its excruciating and like any small joint lock it forces a reaction
Although you have to contend with the possibility that you just break the joint without getting a more structural response so they work best as augmentors (is that a word?) to a broader, more structural technique
Being elbowed or punched is a different kind of thing in that it is more structural in nature (ie it moves your opponent in its own right) with the added benefit of damage and pain
The trade off is strikes like elbows require more force to be effective, whereas small joint locks dont require much effort
 

Dirty Dog

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There are many such places on the body, but counting on that for compliance is a mistake. They should be used to cause reactions.
I'm always baffled by the habit some people have of responding to things nobody said.
 

drop bear

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Its excruciating and like any small joint lock it forces a reaction
Although you have to contend with the possibility that you just break the joint without getting a more structural response so they work best as augmentors (is that a word?) to a broader, more structural technique
Being elbowed or punched is a different kind of thing in that it is more structural in nature (ie it moves your opponent in its own right) with the added benefit of damage and pain
The trade off is strikes like elbows require more force to be effective, whereas small joint locks dont require much effort

The reason I mentioned elbows is there is a good chance you can roll it over and belt a guy from a hand grab. Even a painful thumb grab.

 

drop bear

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Yeah upon reflection I have to agree with this
By the way. The extra details of that ramsey dewey upa escape is a straight up game changer. And if you are slick. You can pull off versions of that from side control, half guard and kasegetami.

And at worst opens them up to try other escapes.

So that good upa concept is self defence gold.

Kasegetami escape.
 
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dunc

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The reason I mentioned elbows is there is a good chance you can roll it over and belt a guy from a hand grab. Even a painful thumb grab.

Yeah I think after the turn over this &/or standing are my "go tos" - I like to use a post (eg amassa pao choke or no gi alternatives) when I stand as it keeps them busy and I find it works better against bigger folk (just got to defend arm bars which is straightforward)
FWIW I don't find the groin to be a viable target until you have opened guard and got standing, you also have to control the legs to prevent up kicks when doing this
 

Kaori

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It is interesting to note, however, that in no older records are there any mention of Kumogakure Ryu coming via Toda to Takamatsu... nor of Takamatsu mentioning it that I have found... for instance, there is no mention of it in Andy Adams' "Ninja: The Invisible Assassins", one of the earliest properly researched books in English from the 60's... although most of the other schools are
Yes, and in the May 1961 "Argosy" magazine article Hatsumi is said to be "the eighteenth successor of the Iga School Ninjitsu [sic], and the thirty-fourth successor of the Togakure School Ninjitsu." He also says at the time that he has no intention of popularizing the art...

Tanemura teaches a form of Iga Ryu Ninpo, based on studying a scroll, but doesn't claim to be soke of that ryu. It's also interesting that official Genbukan documentation on the schools acknowledge that Takamatsu basically tried to reconstruct, or resurrect and revitalize, a form of Kukishin-ryu Ninjutsu. The Togakure Ryu history overview says:

"After the Second World War, Takamatsu started to re-create the Ninjutsu part of [Kuki] Tenshin Hyoho, but stopped and then made Togakure Ryu Ninpo open to the public. He taught this system to some of his students."

The Kumogakure doc is even more explicit:

"After WWII, Takamatsu Toshitsugu considered applying the Ry贖sen scroll and others as the foundation for the Ninjutsu volume within the Kuki Shinden Tenshin Hyhen tradition, but due to certain challenges he terminated this endeavor, and openly transmitted these to his disciples as Togakure-ry贖 Ninpo and Kumogakure-ry贖 Ninpo."

It goes on to say that Tanemura has gone on to transform Kumogakure into an actual coherent ryu, based on synthesizing a heck of a lot of kuden (he must have an amazing memory...):

"As for the content of Kumogakure ry贖, because its foundation stems from Gikan-ry贖, Koto-ry贖, Gyokko-ry贖 and Togakure-ry贖, there is no organized system of techniques. Instead, there are only the oral secret transmission 'Ippon Sugi, Kamayari, Onibi, Metsubushi,' and 'Ushirozeme, Urazeme' of Biken (Secret Sword). The Tanemura lineage (Tanemura-Ha) of Kumogakure-ry贖 concretely systematizes this ry贖ha based on Takamatsu Toshitsugus own notes of techniques from the highest teachings (gokui) of Gyokko-ry贖 Kosshi-jutsu manuals densho (9 Ken and 3 Keri, Taihen Kamae-Kata 9, Kihon-Gata 9), and Ueno Takashis line teachings of the high-level secret Atekomi Sapp (Deadly Striking Methods) (Shoden 12, Chuden 12, Okuden 12, Menkyo and Kaiden Kuden many), which is using hidden weapons (Kakushi, Kakute). This knowledge has been received through a knowledge exchange with Kaminaga Shigemi who received it from Ueno Takashi and received from Kobayashi Hsh also. Finally, the transmissions of Ueno Takashi (Chsui) and Kobayashi Masao (Hsh) of the 'Iga ry贖 Ninpo Gokuhi no Maki' (176 Kudens), as well as Sato Kinbeis 'Ninjutsu Heih Tora no Maki' (56 Kudens), and Ueno-Kobayashis secret transmission book of 'H-jutsu' (19 and 13 Kudens) will be taught together. Moreover, there is also the accompanying Ueno house-lineage tradition (Tomoke/Banke line of Ninja)."

So if the Takamatsuden ninjutsu seems of questionable provenance, there's always Banke Shinobinoden and the Iga Museum's new "Nindo" schools for the contemporary would-be ninja, which, in light of the competition, is probably as good as contemporary ninjutsu studies get.
 
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Jimmythebull

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I think mainly thanks to Hollywood Nin -Jutsu is laughed at. I織m a Ninja Killer :)
Is there a reason for the purple hair??

 

Hanzou

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No. That technique is not correct at any level where you should be showing that to anyone.

You are describing a white belt teaching white belts dilemma.

So the principles are not ok. And I don't see how that would work.

So this is about master Wong. But basically the same idea.

That Master Wong vid is disgusting.
 
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