Wow,
So I came back to this forum to see if maybe anyone has posted any info and just as I suspected its full of BS...
Good bye Martial Talk and good riddance!
So the question has to be, why did you bother to post this comment in the first place? I'm actually going to go back to your original post, as well as parts of the thread itself, and point out why you have had the responses you have, as well as highlighting your reactions to them. This probably won't be pretty....
Im trying to find as many small orginzations in ninjutsu to exammine and gather as much info as possible, Im looking for little dojos and small groups. Not the Kans...
Any suggestions???
This (above) is your original post. Essentially, we had no idea what you actually meant here, hence my request for clarification right below:
Hi,
I notice in your Meet and Greet post that you state you direct/operate a Ninjutsu training dojo. Can I ask what you are refering to there, if it is not one of the 'kans?
With regard to the above post, not really sure what you're after there. Are you after the less-legit (Neo-Ninja) groups? Honestly, if you are, the info is not going to actually be much to do with actual Ninjutsu, the Kan's and the various split offs from them are going to be your best source.
Frankly, to be Ninjutsu an art requires a historical link to the arts associated with the ninja of Japan (and by that I mean a real link, not taking the name of a long-dead Ryu and attaching it to whatever you make up). So Neo-Ninja groups don't qualify there, I'm afraid. The only legit groups (in other words, the only ones with any actual claim to the title Ninjutsu) are those that have passed through Takamatsu, which means Genbukan, Jinenkan, and of course Bujinkan. Now, there are a number of smaller split-off groups, and one larger one (Toshindo) that can also claim the same thing, in terms of those schools in the US, I only know of a couple (and a few in Canada, then one or two in Europe, and some in Australia), however I don't have details on their exact locations, nor am I about to vouch for any of them staying true to the historic systems (quite a few seem to have gone in rather odd directions, for example). For that, you would need to hear from those who are either studying or teaching in those schools, or at least aware of them in their location.
Now, you have come along here to ask for that, which is fine, but you have then gotten rather upset at the fact that no-one fitting that description answered... which is most likely due to the fact that the membership of this forum isn't gigantic (few are, really), and the very limited section of the Ninjutsu community you are asking for simply aren't members here or probably anywhere. You then got further upset when it was pointed out that unless there was the aforementioned historical link, we would not accept that fantasy-driven ramblings of people with no business being allowed near a dojo, let alone teaching, writing books etc are actually anything to do with Ninjutsu, and therefore, to us, have no place if you are actually looking for Ninjutsu. Okay?
Then:
I was under the impression this was for General Ninjutsu discussions, Ive got a small project Im working on independently to find all there is out there.. Im very aware of all the Tew ryu, Dux ryu, Ashida Kim and Chosen... Which to be honest I like the Chosen guy.... Im not to worried about the Big-Kans due to all the back and fourth debate as to who's who and what's what.. I study the teachings of all that are teaching... I think the whole picture is great and a mystery in it self,
Simply put if there is a guy you know of, teaching a Ninjutsu style or running a Dojo, Im simply looking for a little info on them..
Please try not to read into this to much its really simple...
I'm going to take that one bit by bit....
This is the General Ninjutsu forum. That means that general discussion of Ninjutsu happens here, not that it is the non Bujinkan forum. It is more about training ideas, products, various teachers etc etc etc. The other is the Traditional Forum, which deals with Ryu-ha specific concepts, history, and so forth. You seem to be mis-interpretting what the forum is about.
You like Choson Ninja? Everyone has their own taste, but for the record, he has nothing to do with Ninjutsu whatsoever. And, to be honest, he leaves a lot to be desired as a martial artist.
The whole picture is indeed great... but it doesn't include the above-mentioned groups. At all. They have as much to do with Ninjutsu as crepe suzette does.
I'm going to skip over things such as "I am a student of Nin (?)" .... and "Our Ryu is doing just what ninja or bushi alike would do... Gather Info... (?)", as these are just out in so many ways, showing a great lack of understanding of this subject, which is really the crux of your issues with the forum.
Once again to specify, Im simply looking for anything I may have not seen or found myself.. Im simply looking for the names and info of small groups that are training in Ninjutsu.. Ive read the stickies and ive read the posting for newbies and all that... Im interested in finding back woods groups like mine.. its nothing else...
If you must know Im working towards producing a documentary on the American Ninja Movements.. So people like Rick Tew, Frank Dux Ect are people Ive researched... Its to simply dig deeper into Mask that Ninjutsu has created for itself..
I figure joining this forum would be fun but so far its kinda Sketchy..
Good day.
And here they start to appear.
Rick Tew and Frank Dux are some of those that I refered to above. Researching them is nothing to do with researching Ninjutsu, so we wouldn't be recommending them (waiting for Josh to chime in now....). When it comes to you deciding this forum is "sketchy", that is simply you not getting the answers you wanted, mainly due, as I said, to the people training in these systems not posting here, and those concerned with actual Ninjutsu not classing those as Ninjutsu, therefore not relevant to the discussion. Asking for something is fine, again, but getting huffy because you don't get an answer, or the answer you want is frankly rather childish. I'd suggest growing up.
My question was simply to find some info on schools, Im not looking for an authority in ninjutsu...
You may not have been looking for an authority in Ninjutsu, but by posting on a forum dedicated to Ninjutsu, you will find people who know what it is. And frankly when they pointed out the problems with your approach, your knowledge, your experience, your terminology, and so on, you have decided that we are out to attack you. We're not. We're trying to correct you so that you can learn and grow in the arts. If you can't take that on board, then frankly don't post on a forum.
Mostly to verify the entire aspect of ninjutsu... I love Bujinkan don't get me wrong, But as I Examined To-Shin-Do it seemed more welcoming and the curriculum was great! Ive had run ins with Kan folks like everyone does..
To be honest.. Im not here to let every one tear apart my school or my teachers... I was here to learn and express a love of an art..
Im not interested in sharing with you now.. Why would I now that all have mocked and carelessly make underlining comments and so fourth..
Thank you...
The thing that strikes me here is that you seem to see a difference (in terms of what makes up the teachings) between Toshindo and the Bujinkan. Toshindo is Steve Hayes' organisation, and is based primarily on his training and decades of experience in the Bujinkan. It is really just a different approach to the same material. Teaching styles can and do vary, but to think that the Bujinkan arts and the Toshindo arts are that removed shows lack of understanding of those as well.
At this point there was no mocking, you are frankly being far too sensitive and seeing things that aren't there. The "underlined" comments are also not present. Seriously, go visit MAP, see how you go there. Questions are not attacks, neither are corrections. If you can't handle them, avoid all forums. This is the gentlest you will find in this area.
What exactly is this supposed to mean??? Im very concerned for the Users of this site... Its very very odd here in this topic.... Like i said I came back to see if the posts were relevant and Im afraid they are not...
What are you referring to here???
Im sure its meant to be some sort of insult...
A perfect way to be a true Martial Artist!!
Thank you sir!
It means, as Supra said, you are acting like a child demanding attention. You left for a few weeks, came back, and made the initial post quoted in this post... why? Then, to top it off, you didn't go anywhere! You started another thread two hours later!
The other thing I'm noting here is that you seem to be only able to take things absolutely literally. You show no ability to determine the symbolic message in posts such as Elder's, or the other less-literal postings here. Every post that doesn't agree with you is someone rejecting you, or mocking you. No, they aren't. Honestly that makes me wonder about whether or not you have been checked for any form of mental disorder. That is not an attack, it is a legitimate question. Your posting style shows a rather odd thought process, which leads me to believe that something may be there.. although I'm not going to voice what I think that is. But if there is something that may help us understand you, let us know. If we assume (as we tend to) that you are rational, sane, possess critical thinking, and so on, then you are posting rather oddly. On the other hand, if there is something there, we will take that into account when addressing you (note: that will not make your invented Ryu with no real experience nor Ryu structure legit or necessarily accepted... but we will know where you are coming from). Okay?
Really, it's as was said at the beginning of this thread. If Kumori Ryu is after something authentic, something that can legitimately be called Ninjutsu, then all he's got to look at is the Bujinkan, Genbukan, Jinenkan, and legitimate off-shoots (note: not people who took a bit of training in a Kan, then went off and came back as "Soke" or "An-Shu", or even "Menkyo Kaiden" in arts that have no substantiation, or even particular skill-sets that don't have those titles applied to them. I'm sure you can think of who I'm refering to here....). If the actual authentic aspect doesn't matter, and it's just anyone with the cool badge, using the name whether there's anything to support it or not, then he can look at a lot of groups, but it really defeats the idea of looking for "ninjutsu" in the first place. After all, if it's not Ninjutsu, it's not Ninjutsu, no matter what it's called.
Read this again.
Then read it again.
