Ninjustu acceptance in the Martail Arts World

Aiki Lee

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You said it steve.

Kumori to respond to your OP, I have a few thoughts.

Ninjutsu appears to not be accepted because of so many misleading idiots out there like Kim, Dux, and Dallas (rest his soul) using the "ninja" name. All ninjutsu practitioners, legitimate or otherwise are lumped in with them. Many of us who have trained for years in this stuff often say we practice traditional japanese martial arts or jujutsu to avoid the rolling eyes of people who don't know how to separate us from the likes of the Naruto wannabes.

I'm afraid that while these people exist ninjutsu will not really be accepted while there are groups out there that buy so heavily into the legends that they end up acting out some form of delusional fantasy as opposed to training for actual combat.

For those who are actually skilled but have no real knowledge of ninjutsu, people see that as a marketing ploy used by dishonest teachers.

I don't mean disrespect. I honestly, honestly don't. But you are not helping. You do not seem to have the experience necessary to teach ninjutsu. You could be a very talented martial artist with exceptional skill, but that does not make you a ninja.

You list some training in the Booj and TSD, but based on your time it would be like me training 3 years in karate and deciding to create my own karate system. An outsider who knew nothing of karate but looking for a school could choose between my "new karate" or say an experienced Goju ryu teacher without knowing there is a difference. If that person chose me I would no doubt teach them a weak watered down version of whatever karate I knew and have them think that karate is worthless.

This is essentially what neo-ninjas do. No other martial art deals with this the same way ninjutsu has to and it is not fair for ninjutsu to be sullied simply because it has been allowed to go on for so long.

I have 8years in my system, Chris said he had 12+ (I think?), others have more. I have just scratched the surface of martial arts and would never dream of creating my own system and saying it was on par of those who came before. Let me master the training my art offers me now and then we will see.
 
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Kumori Ryu Ninja

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Point well taken,

In my small community where I lived there was no Ninjutsu Dojo around I traveled to Champaign every weekend to train and learn... Then after class continued to train and learn from the lead student Ben. When My Sensei Allan Quit training I had asked him about teaching, He stated anyone can teach but only shodan and higher can rank Bujinkan, Im sorry that I am not to your standards of Ninjutsu, However I was open and honest to my Sensei about my intent and there was no conflict... At that time I decided to venture into my own studies and create the Kumori Ryu, I did this to help spread an art in an area where there was nothing of the like... Now there is a school dedicated to helping others put there foot into the door and study ninjutsu... Ive told my students that they can join any other school or organization if they wish, but they stick with me... Ive dedicated my life to helping them learn and grow as martial artists.. Oh and Don't worry Im not offended.. Nor will I be over matters such as this.. I know my capabilities and my students know what we are capable of as a family..

Thank you for your posts
Take care and the best of luck to you sir!!!
 

Tanaka

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I still don't think "Jon" will realize how nice/polite everyone here has been to him, until he goes to another forum like MAP and say the things hes said here.
 

Supra Vijai

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I still don't think "Jon" will realize how nice/polite everyone here has been to him, until he goes to another forum like MAP and say the things hes said here.

He can't do that. Seems if you have accounts on MAP etc as well as here you're going to be considered a Troll
 

Bujingodai

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You're probably right.
But I'm no troll. And I'm one of the mods for the Ninjutsu forum there. What quantifies that?
 

Aiki Lee

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There is something admirable about wanting to share such a beautiful art, but one should have a firm grasp of it first. I would be interested in seeing some videos of your training.

If you are concerned some people may jump on you or something you can private message me.

I don't think the majority of people on this forum are interested in making fun of you. They may not be happy with your wish to have your own system, but if it works it works. I just hope what you teach is effective and not building false confidence in your students.

Such an attitude can be disasterous.
 

Chris Parker

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Excellent posts everyone...

I appreciate everyone's input and look forward to reading more...
As for my school, credentials, teachers, Ect.. Im not here to discuss that in this post.. Im simply starting a discussion that I'm interested in... Ive found that there are many who love Ninjutsu and Many that love there own school and not the teachings of others that's fine.. Im not going to get involved with throwing around my opinion about your schools or your lineage..

As for me continuing learning from instructors, I am. I never said that Ive quit learning.. So please I insist that we keep to the topic at hand and part from starting another argument about "What is Ninjutsu"..

Thank you

You understand, of course, that when you start a discussion of Ninjutsu then your understanding of what Ninjutsu is will come into it? And if you don't have a real understanding of what it is in the first place, then the discussion will need to clarify that in the first place. But, as you insist, what exactly is the topic you presented? Let's look at your OP:

Hello,
Ive had my ins and outs on this site... Im here to find the opinions of others on a matter that has concerned me for a while since joining this forum... If we as Ninjutsu Practitioners are to claim that we study an art based on the idea of perseverance in the world that we are born into, is it not ideal to help accept all who strive to learn and grow in an art that is for the common good of all men and women..
Simply put, Ive been taught by my instructors that the best method of defense is to simply refuse to fight until it is the final answer...
I find that Ninjutsu is an art that "Fights" within itself...What do you think we can do as Practitioners to let go of animosity and learn to accept others for the good intentions that they hold... Are we not all of the same earth? Are we not all of the same God? I ask you to please let go of your hate or disrespect and help to bring others into this art with out ridicule or a superior mind set...I have always taught my students to listen to those willing to teach and to approach all martial arts with an open mind. I have great pride in my students for there willingness to learn with out judgment...
Please let go of your differences and join together as Martial Artists...

Your thoughts are welcome!!

You start off by implying problems with the people here, mainly due to the fact that we corrected you. You also seem to imply that, as we didn't immediately give you big pats on the back and "atta-boys" for starting your own "ryu" and teaming up with someone like "Ninja Bob" (I'll get to this.... you may want to reconsider things afterwards) that there are issues with Ninjutsu being accepted. Not if it actually is Ninjutsu, would be the point there.

You then show a lack of understanding of the name itself, taking a purely literal translation without understanding the context of the term, and dress it up in an unrealistic idealism. You then continue to claim that Ninjutsu fights within itself.... which everyone else has said is not the case, the legitimate, authentic Ninjutsu community is rather sick of people misappropriating their name as a marketing tool with no basis whatsoever, dragging the reputation of the art further and further down. Again, it comes down to if it actually is Ninjutsu or not.

You then end with a rather odd "are we not all of the same Earth? Are we not all of the same God?" (er, no we're not, actually. You may want to bring that aspect of reality into your thinking, by the way....) peace-on-earth, complete tolerance of everything no matter how much it harms what you love ideal. This does not work at all, so no.

You say that you have always taught your students (?) to listen to those willing to teach.... so why did you almost immediately start saying you would ignore anything I said, especially when what I was doing more than anything else was educating and correcting you?

But really, you have presented an unrealistic ideal, which really doesn't invite any conversation or discussion other than explainations as to why we don't just accept anyone in black hoods and pajamas swinging nunchuks and calling themselves "ninja"... so I'm not sure what you think this discussion was meant to be.

Bujingodai,

No sir Im not terribly old, lol 27 to be honest, I was a 3 yr student before I accepted my Student Brad.. He was my first Real student of the Ryu... Him and I worked together to refine his skill and work towards taking over the Illinois chapter of the Ryu...

As for the Black Scorpion Society, I was interested in there motives as a Ninjutsu Group.. They have the intent on unifying all martial artists and ninjutsu.. I appreciate where they stand and I admire Bobby Calvert for his efforts in the martial arts world... Ive found that any society that is accepting of all, is a society that I want to be a part of... There are groups that select and choose there students to keep a certain level of seclusion in there Dojo and Im perfectly fine with that, However when students and or teachers of another group start to tear other Dojo and schools apart it creates a wall between us that once built is very hard to knock down.. Ive found a federation to join that feels the same way I do about martial arts and Ninjutsu, and for that I am very grateful, I hope that this thread can allow people to stand up for what they believe is good and pure in intent, I understand the "true" Ninjutsu practitioners (I.E. x-kans) are very skeptical about those that have broken away or have started a training group to honor the Ninja spirit, However I hope that they see that it can come across as a condescending attitude towards those that are simply looking for a fun and entertaining way to stay in shape and learn great defensive skills..

Im very sure that Chris, Bruno and the others in hand are very good at what they do and I respect them for giving there opinoins, Infact I have learned a few things and have corrected a few of my mistakes based on there posts. BUT, I do not appreciate the tone in wich some have delivered their opinion of others...

I try to be open minded and accept others in the arts, I Hope that one day these posts can be viewed as the stepping stones to acceptance of all that love Ninjutsu!!!

Thank you and good luck to you all.... That means you too Mr. Parker!! lol

Okay, I'm going to be blunt. The Black Scorpion group are ridiculous. The ideals that you like are not present in reality, as the rules for the legit organisations don't allow them to be a part of it.... not that many would want to. There is no benefit whatsoever of being a part of this group. They have nothing even close to legit training (seriously, the number of huge issues with the photos pages alone were scary!), and are far from "good and pure in intent". They are what is refered to as "LARPers", which is Live Action Role Players... basically kids playing dress-ups. They say that they accept everyone as they have nothing really to offer themselves, and it's a way to get an ego boost. In order to grow as a practitioner, get a real teacher.

Oh don't worry yourself [email protected]
I have officially left the Bujinkan for good...
I still read and seek out the teachings however...
I am not looking to receive any rank or certification from the Bujinkan whatsoever.

Im not interested in rank only experience!!

Thank you for your posts!

Reading and videos are not training or learning without a teacher to clarify what you are going through. And if you are interested in experience, then get some. And that means getting a real teacher (again) and taking the time to learn and train properly. Without that, you have no experience to gain.

Point well taken,

In my small community where I lived there was no Ninjutsu Dojo around I traveled to Champaign every weekend to train and learn... Then after class continued to train and learn from the lead student Ben. When My Sensei Allan Quit training I had asked him about teaching, He stated anyone can teach but only shodan and higher can rank Bujinkan, Im sorry that I am not to your standards of Ninjutsu, However I was open and honest to my Sensei about my intent and there was no conflict... At that time I decided to venture into my own studies and create the Kumori Ryu, I did this to help spread an art in an area where there was nothing of the like... Now there is a school dedicated to helping others put there foot into the door and study ninjutsu... Ive told my students that they can join any other school or organization if they wish, but they stick with me... Ive dedicated my life to helping them learn and grow as martial artists.. Oh and Don't worry Im not offended.. Nor will I be over matters such as this.. I know my capabilities and my students know what we are capable of as a family..

Thank you for your posts
Take care and the best of luck to you sir!!!

In the Bujinkan, only a 5th Dan and higher (with a Shidoshi licence) can teach and rank. Someone Shodan - 4th Dan can be a Shidoshi-ho (junior instructor) under the guidance of a Shidoshi (which is why Cryo asked who the Shidoshi that was guiding Allen was), so it sounds like Allen was either unsure or incorrect in his statements there as well. And it's got nothing to do with you not making "our standard" for Ninjutsu, it's more that you show again and again that your knowledge and understanding is very lacking, to say the least, which is, more than anything else, a reflection of your minimalist experience.

But to take it another way, can you tell us about Kumori Ryu? What makes it a Ryu? What are the base concepts? What is the structure like? What are the mechanics like? What differentiates it from the Bujinkan or Toshindo? If you can't answer these, it is no Ryu, you have not founded anything other than a training group that you have called a Ryu... and a training group, under the guidance of an instructor, is something we would absolutely support. So I'd personally be far more supportive of you saying that you were running a training group for Toshindo under your current instructor (you did say you were still training in Toshindo, yeah?), the creation of a Ryu is frankly ridiculous.

I have 8years in my system, Chris said he had 12+ (I think?), others have more. I have just scratched the surface of martial arts and would never dream of creating my own system and saying it was on par of those who came before. Let me master the training my art offers me now and then we will see.

And just to clarify, I had been training for over 12 years before I started teaching regularly. I've now been training for coming up to 18 years, with a few years of Karate and Tae-Kwon Do before that, and a number of other arts during as well.

That does bring me to another point, though.

Jon, I've alluded to any problems you may have interpretting the way things are written on the screen, and I notice that you have been "Thanking" a number of posts that are basically telling you that what you are doing is far from ideal, or even advised. SteveBJJ actually pointed out that if someone had come along to the BJJ forum and made similar claims, they would have been ripped to pieces. You thanked him for that. I pointed out that I trained for well over a decade before starting to teach, as opposed to your couple of years (a fair bit of which without your instructor, if I'm reading your posts correctly) and low rank, and you thanked me. That pattern is rather prevalent, so again I'm going to ask if there is anything that we should know about that would help us communicate with you better. You seem to be misinterpretting things a fair bit, and seeing things that no-one else is (other than Ronin7411 who just doesn't like the fact that we pointed out the lack of credibility in his approach, amongst other things).
 

[email protected]

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I don't know about fighting within the ninjutsu community, but threads like this don't reflect well from my perspective on the outside looking in. Threads like this are embarrassing to even read. My hat is off to you guys for keeping a level head and managing to remain polite. I wouldn't have it in me to do the same if an equivalent thread popped up from someone pretending to start some kind of make believe flavor of brazilian jiu jitsu.

I agree that this sort of stuff is annoying.

And the easiest solution is probably to look away and stop responding. But then it looks as if we accept the people who make us look ridiculous by associating their childhood fantasy with our martial art. I do not want to sing kum-ba-yah over this issue. In my experience, the people who cry the hardest for 'living together peacefully' and 'having respect for all' are the ones who do not have any actual autenticity.

The irony is that he just thanked this post in which you called his system a make believe art :)
 

[email protected]

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and a training group, under the guidance of an instructor, is something we would absolutely support. So I'd personally be far more supportive of you saying that you were running a training group for Toshindo under your current instructor (you did say you were still training in Toshindo, yeah?), the creation of a Ryu is frankly ridiculous.

This is something I would like to expand on.
Study groups under the supervision of a kyu level student are perfectly acceptable if there is supervision from a qualified instructor. Our own group is still like that. My sensei had been training intensively under a master level sensei for 5 years or so when he started our group.

At that time the difference in experience was wide enough that he could teach us and his imperfections were small enough that it did not affect us (who did not even know how to stand in kamae). The master level sensei teaches class once per month, mostly to check up on us and make correcttions where necessary. In the meantime, my sensei still trains twice per week with that instructor to increase his own skill and understanding.

This is how training groups are supposed to work, and indeed this concept is used not only in the x-kans but also in koryu organizations, modern jujutsu systems, etc.

The entire concept hinges on masterlevel supervision to keep the entire thing heading in the correct direction. Without that, the training group is just a bunch of people making things up as they go along. The blind leading the blind.
 

Chris Parker

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There is something admirable about wanting to share such a beautiful art, but one should have a firm grasp of it first. I would be interested in seeing some videos of your training.

If you are concerned some people may jump on you or something you can private message me.

I don't think the majority of people on this forum are interested in making fun of you. They may not be happy with your wish to have your own system, but if it works it works. I just hope what you teach is effective and not building false confidence in your students.

Such an attitude can be disasterous.

Hi Himura,

We've been discussing Koryu systems via PM, so you will probably have an idea where I'm coming from here... that said.....

"If it works it works" is completely irrelevant. Whether or not something is "effective" doesn't matter when you are dealing with historical systems, legitimacy, legacy, lineage, historical veracity, proven transmission, that is what matters. So to create a new Ninjutsu Ryu (impossible, by the way) it is purely to do with the historical links it has. For the record, the Jizaikan, Toshindo, my schools, and so on are good examples. None of them are new Ninjutsu systems, they are not new Ryu, they are new organisations continuing the transmission of the Ryu that are contained within. A new martial art may require some form of effectiveness as a credibility aspect (although that is of course only in regard to it's chosen environment... BJJ, for instance, doesn't need to be effective for self defence, it needs to be effective at winning BJJ competition. Judo doesn't need to be effective for self defence, it needs to be effective at winning Judo competition. Seitei Iai doesn't need to be effective for self defence [well, the sword is kind of a giveaway there, really....], it needs to be effective at transmitting the mindset and proper use of the sword, and so on. Martial arts are not about self defence....), but that's about it.

The argument "well, what I do is effective and works in the street!" simply shows a giant lack of understanding of the arts themselves.... I mean, really, why do people think that "It's a devestating street defence art!" has anything to do with an art based in 16th Century Japan, I have no idea.... the two environments are so far removed from each other that it's like saying that my horse and cart from 200 years ago works as transport so I can race modern cars with it. It just doesn't make any sense, really.
 

Indagator

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Firstly in regards to the comments and statements by the OP, I would like to point out that it is often said that one does not even truly begin to learn the art until shodan. The kyu levels are a preparatory graduated learning curve through which one (hopefully) achieves certain neccessary prerequisites which will enable them to actually be able to learn what they will be taught... to me it's like if you want to be a novelist, you must first learn the alphabet. Then grammar and tense. And then a bunch of other stuff about how to write the language. Once you have sound knowledge of all of these fields, then you will be able to study, say, creative writing. Diving right into a serious crative writing course right from word go will not, usually, work out well. Case-in-point; ever seen an eight year old graduate one of those courses?
I say this because you mention that you have studied as far as 6th kyu in ninjutsu. So to transpose this into the context of my metaphor, let's say you have mastered the basics of spelling, grammar, and tense. If you now venture out on your own to pioneer a new method of creative writing study courses, what would this method be based on? It would be reasonable to doubt the legitimacy of these courses. Surely you could understand why?

I dunno. These others who are far more learned than I continuously offer you advice here - I admonish you to please take it on board. Nobody bears you ill-will. You stand only to gain from listening to them, you cannot lose a thing.

All the best, brother. May your journey carry you ever forwards!
 
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K

Kumori Ryu Ninja

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Thank you for your Opinions...

Chris... Ive got you set to Ignore.. Sorry, but I wouldn't want you to waste your time with me!!
Bruno, I tried ignoring you but somehow your a moderator?? Hows that??
Seeing as your the most disrespectful when it comes to name calling,
I have reported you and reported this post for lock down.. It seems you all will not stick to the topic at all...

Good day!
 
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[email protected]

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Thank you for your Opinions...

Chris... Ive got you set to Ignore.. Sorry, but I wouldn't want you to waste your time with me!!
Bruno, I tried ignoring you but somehow your a moderator?? Hows that??
Seeing as your the most disrespectful when it comes to name calling,
I have reported you and reported this post for lock down.. It seems you all will not stick to the topic at all...

Good day!

I'm being disrespectful? At no time did I start insulting you or did anything other than reply to your posts. I may not say the things that you want to hear, but that does not mean they're wrong.

Looking objectively at the whole discussion, you use a specific historial term from Japanese culture for your own purpose. Chris and I point out that your use of the term does not make sense, your use of the word 'ryu' does not make sense, you abuse the word 'ronin' as an instructor level, and you start teaching an art after only a couple of years of instruction.

Us pointing that out and refusing to take you serious is not the same as calling you names.
I used the word 'newbie' which imo is appropriate for someone who has only been studying any art for a couple of years. Without qualified instruction anyone remains a newbie.
I used the word 'larp' to describe people who think they can invent new ninjutsu ryuha in this day and age, nevermind the fact that you are not Japanese, living in Japan or put much stock in factual / historical accuracy. See previous paragraph.

As for me being a moderator. You are correct. So I knew you had reported me. I do get the reports. It's not a big secret btw. The rectangular green badge next to my username, with the text 'moderator' is kind of a giveaway. How that came to be... ask Bob. He's the owner.
 

Chris Parker

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Thank you for your Opinions...

Chris... Ive got you set to Ignore.. Sorry, but I wouldn't want you to waste your time with me!!
Bruno, I tried ignoring you but somehow your a moderator?? Hows that??
Seeing as your the most disrespectful when it comes to name calling,
I have reported you and reported this post for lock down.. It seems you all will not stick to the topic at all...

Good day!

Okay, I'm being ignored, which is fine (this does seem to be the second time I've been told that by you, though.... and as I warned last time, if you keep putting people who disagree with you on ignore [myself, an attempt at Bruno] as we try to give you better information than you have, pretty soon you'll have everyone on ignore.... and that'll make it a rather dull place for you to be!), but I do have to wonder... how was I not sticking to the topic? I mean, the topic itself is the acceptance of Ninjutsu, I sought clarification based on what Ninjutsu actually is, and got to the point where I went back through the entire thread, starting with the original post itself in order to address it....?

Seriously, there are some major synaptic issues with your posting and thanking style, I really do think there's a form of autism, or something similar at work there. You thank people who tell you what you're doing is ridiculous, read insults where they don't exist, and cannot get a message from a picture posted. I just think that if we knew what was going on there we may be better able to communicate with you.

Oh, well, I'm ignored, so I don't know that these questions will reach you.... pity, as they're rather relevant to your time here. I'm not sure how long it's going to be, honestly.
 

ElfTengu

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Don't let this guy steal time that you could have spent training, he is not the first, far from the last, and is very sad really.

Ninjutsu is 100% Japanese even if most of its practitioners aren't. But all authentic ninjutsu practitioners, and certainly all authentic instructors/teachers, have a connection or lineage (in the case of Toshindo etc) to another teacher/practitioner who was qualified by someone with authentic rank from either the Bujinkan, Genbukan or Jinenkan, otherwise it is not ninjutsu that they are studying or teaching.

Bear in mind that we don't even regard certain 8th and 10th dan (ranks awarded by Hatsumi Soke) as legitimate teachers even though they now have their own offshoot school, and this is primarily because they have filled the gaps in their knowledge with material from other arts and still passed it off as ninjutsu when it is not. There is nothing wrong with cross training, but cross trainers know which bits of their overall repertoire are 'ninjutsu/taijutsu' and which are not, and make sure that if they pass any of this additional material onto their students that their students are also aware which is which.

Xkan folks are always going to be harsh critics of anything that screams like a little kid that it is is ninjutsu but is clearly not.
 

Tanaka

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Okay, I'm being ignored, which is fine (this does seem to be the second time I've been told that by you, though.... and as I warned last time, if you keep putting people who disagree with you on ignore [myself, an attempt at Bruno] as we try to give you better information than you have, pretty soon you'll have everyone on ignore.... and that'll make it a rather dull place for you to be!), but I do have to wonder... how was I not sticking to the topic? I mean, the topic itself is the acceptance of Ninjutsu, I sought clarification based on what Ninjutsu actually is, and got to the point where I went back through the entire thread, starting with the original post itself in order to address it....?

Seriously, there are some major synaptic issues with your posting and thanking style, I really do think there's a form of autism, or something similar at work there. You thank people who tell you what you're doing is ridiculous, read insults where they don't exist, and cannot get a message from a picture posted. I just think that if we knew what was going on there we may be better able to communicate with you.

Oh, well, I'm ignored, so I don't know that these questions will reach you.... pity, as they're rather relevant to your time here. I'm not sure how long it's going to be, honestly.

He probably learned it from ChosonNinja. This "Jon" uses the same type of attitude as ChosonNinja did. Giving the constant "I am just trying to teach people and help benefit them"(We don't mind if you teach, just stop lying).
Constantly making '-bows-' and sarcastically thanking people whom have told him how ridiculous he is.
Speaking deeply about "Honoring this... Honoring that"
Acting like hes an overly romanticized version of a Samurai following the overly romanticized Bushido.
(Yes there becomes a point of where you become ridiculous when you overly preach about honor and respect. Instead of being realistic you start to seem artificial. This isn't a fantasy movie/anime)

(To Kumori Ryu Ninja: )The black scorpion society(once again another term that seems to play on fantasy of being dark and mysterious coolness factor) doesn't honor Ninjutsu/Ninpo nor do you. You honor YOUR idea of Ninjutsu/Ninpo. Which in return is disrespectful to actual Ninjutsu/Ninpo. Since they are not YOUR idea's to hold claim to.
 

nitflegal

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Well then, far be it from me to contribute to thread drift, so on to the topic at hand. As I see it, there are three main barriers to the acceptance of ninjutsu. The first is that quite simply we are not solely studying ninjutsu in the X-Kans. I do think many of the mind-sets of the 3 ninjutsu ryu have permeated how Soke has taught the other 6 schools but when I'm studying Sanshin, that isn't technically ninjutsu. Moreover, I have encountered comparatively few teachers in the Bujinkan who can teach anything from Togakure ryu that isn't straight from the DVD. So right there is the misconception that if you go to the X-Kans you're going to be spending all of your time with shuriken and leaping and stealth kills and the like.

Second, there's a lot of *****-talking in the Bujinkan and cliques. Very public as well. The constant Stephen Hayes eats babies/tears create babies discussions for example. Beyond that, most of these public snipings tend to be mostly from people who have never met or studied with the people they're slamming/praising. So we in the X-Kans air our dirty laundry a lot in public.

The third and my opinion primary reason we'll never be accepted is, to be blunt, you and people like you. "Ninjutsu" is chock full of people teaching other people wretched and innaccurate techniques after far too little or no experience learning from someone qualified to instruct these schools. Many are well meaning but naive, many more are Larpers, and many more are studying with people who cashed in on the ninja craze with no more authenticity than they'd bought a ninja uniform from AWMA. The bigggest slam against the Bujinkan is that we have teachers who suck, who don't understand body mechanics, and whose understanding of technique is limited to what they can ape from Hatsumi's videos. Amazingly enough, propogating more inexperienced teachers who don't know what they're doing isn't going to help our reputation. Inclusive things like the Black Scorpion Society are exactly what's wrong. Historical ninjutsu is an actual series of techniques, kata, kamae, fighting philosophies, spiritual and mental outlooks, etc that were used in combat and passed down to successive soke and shidoshi. It is not an integration of karate, gung fu, Tae Kwon Do, Aikido, and whatever else was previously studied by the membership with a new name. It's insulting to those of us who've taken the time to search for good teachers and it's hugely insulting to people like Soke, Muramatsu, Hayes, Malstrom, Davis, etc who've devoted their adult lives to making these arts actually available to all of us. This stuff isn't hidden, it's not hard to find. You might have to drive a ways but there is a teacher in your country and most likely your state and province.

To answer your original question, here's what we do if we want more acceptance.
1) Be clearer in our teminology what schools originated the techniques we're learning. If it's not from Togakure ryu, be clear that it is from Gyokko, or Kukishinden, or what have you. Educate what ninjutsu in our arts actually is.
2) Try and minimize the smack talk. PM's, face to face, e-mail is a great way to discuss how much teacher X sucks or how badly you could beat them up in a real fight. Keep it in the family and understand that public forums are just that, public.
3) Deny acceptance to inexperienced people who've decided they can teach these arts. I wouldn't study trombone from someone who had only studied it for 6 months, why would I trust my actual life to techniques from a martial artist of similar experience. Put it this way, can you give me 10 Gyokko ryu kata names, meanings, and descriptions from memory AND demonstrate them effectively against a variety of body types? How about the physiologic impacts of ura versus omote shuto? Sanshin with a bo, tanto, and kusari fundo? If you can't use any one of these topics as a theme to teach for a month, find another job.

Part of me hates being blunt because you may be well meaning. If that's the case, please understand you're not teaching and most likely not even practicing effective martial arts from any of the X-Kans. Let your ego die and approach learning with a beginner's heart and work your *** off for a decade or two, 1-3 hours every day. If you can't understand this, then I hope that your students don't get damaged too badly.

Matt
 

Aiki Lee

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To Chris's post about my post:

I see your point. I totally agree that even if his system works it does not make it ninjutsu. He can call it that, but that does not make it so. I could put big floppy ears and big hose on a rhino, but that wouldn't make it an elephant.

Personally I got into martial arts for self-defence reasons and because i was interested in Japanese culture. I can see what you mean when you say that martial arts are not really all about the self-defense. But for me that remains a huge part of it and I assumed it was Kumori's reason as well.

To Kumori:

Why would you block Chris? He knows what he is talking about. He and Bruno tend to be some of the best posters and most respectful guys on the site. I honestly don't see where they have insulted you.

If you do not feel your OP is being responded to, can you clairify it? From my perspective we have been trying to answer it for days.
 

Chris Parker

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Er, I'm being ignored here, so I doubt that this will get to who it needs to, but on the off-chance it gets to him, this thread is a very good example of why someone with no real experience starting a new "system" gets the reaction they do (swordsmanship in this case): http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php/24195-Nihontodo-Combative-Kenjutsu

For those of you that venture, enjoy! (Really can't believe some people some times....)
 
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